Interesting Words 4.0a beta 1

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 25 2009 6:54 PM

Bob,

I have to say...it IS more fun than a list...more visually appealing; in keeping with V4's slicker look...but there are issues with fonts and things as have been pointed out...

this has promise!

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 25 2009 8:06 PM

Bob Pritchett:
And it seemed more fun than a list.
Well it is that.  Now that I've finally gotten b2 running I don't think it's any different in the word choices than the original, but it is more interesting nonetheless.  I may even take a screenshot of it now and then for youth group graphics.

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

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Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 212
Simon | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 25 2009 10:53 PM

For people that are either dyslexic or colorblind (both very common "handicaps"), this new layout can be very un-usable. I would appreciate if there would come at least an option to display the interesting words/topics section in something like the old format (black and white, in either sentence-style or list-style)

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 4:06 AM

In my view wordle type graphs are only useful for large bodies of text, when you want to see lots of interesting words - and even then when the words are horizontal only. If we could run this for whole books of the Bible - or even entire resources or collections - that would be fascinating. As it is, for small pericopes, they existing cloud works much better. Here, for example, is what my thesis looks like at the moment:

Posts 687
Jon | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 4:30 AM

Mark, your thesis speaks the truth...

Prophecy > Tongues

New > Old

One > Two

Paul > God

...but wait a second... there's something wrong here... where's the LOVE? Wink

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 4:34 AM

Jon Rumble:
...but wait a second... there's something wrong here... where's the LOVE? Wink

It's missing....Pastor Barnes is a Calvinist.. Surprise

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 6:21 AM

Mark Barnes:
In my view wordle type graphs are only useful for large bodies of text, when you want to see lots of interesting words - and even then when the words are horizontal only. If we could run this for whole books of the Bible - or even entire resources or collections - that would be fascinating.

After running a few on Books of the Bible (lots of fun try Romans) I just ran one from Matthew to Revelation:

 

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

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Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 6:43 AM

Unable to contain myself I just attempted to run another one from Gen-Revelation.  I think it nearly killed my computer.

My logs are now reporting an endless stream of the same error.

18    Error    IssueError    Issuing exception 0x80030070: There is insufficient disk space to complete operation. [e:\ccnet\working\digitallibrary\common\digitallibrary\src\ldls3\libs\comutil\MemoryStream.inl(424)]

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 687
Jon | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 7:02 AM

Genesis to Revelation

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Russ Quinn | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 7:05 AM

Could Pelagius have been right?

Wits are apparently more significant than grace!!!

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 8:22 AM

Thanks John.  Not sure why it killed mine but it sure enough did.  Even running Gen-Malachi was too much for my machine. 

How long did that one take to run for you?

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 687
Jon | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 8:30 AM

about 3-4 minutes...

Posts 78
Ray Timmermans | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 9:15 AM

Simon Lagendijk:

For people that are either dyslexic or colorblind (both very common "handicaps"), this new layout can be very un-usable. I would appreciate if there would come at least an option to display the interesting words/topics section in something like the old format (black and white, in either sentence-style or list-style)

 

Simon,

I agree with you, but the dyslexic or colorblind issues aside, it is simply confusing and frankly not all that accurate--thus for research purposes it is a waste of time and coding. It also tends to make Logos 4 look more like a toy not a tool.  If we must have this "feature" I would like to have the option of either turning it off altogether or using the algorithm that came with L3 which appeared to me to have a greater degree of accuracy. Having the ability to turn it off  would 1) likely make the searches faster and 2) would  contain information that users are  ACTUALLY interested in rather than suggesting thing that they might be missing (but actually are not) because of a statistical algorithm that may or may not be filtered with biblical/textual/theological concepts. I'm for leaving the toys for other programs and tweaking this one into a solid tool. I'm not saying it isn't now, but no need to inject something to it that, IMHO makes it less so.  (Bob, as you can tell, I'm in the "hate it" category)  

Ray

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DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 12:15 PM

I like it, its very powerpointy, perhaps we can keep it just for exporting to powerpoint...

Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have

Posts 386
Clinton Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 1:04 PM

Hi Bob,

I hope you see my post on the topics thread about this. http://community.logos.com/forums/t/5790.aspx. Sorry if my commentary is over the top there.

I really hate this layout!

However, I like how it is implemented on the iPod touch,

  1. black on white readable text, no pastels
  2. all horizontal text,
  3. no microscopic text,
  4. no overlapping text.

If you did that (or made it an option) for the desktop product it would be great.

Finally, the black on white text is important to me. So often in version 4 things are very faded and I cannot make them out. I have found as I try to adjust my monitor to make these darker, I start to get a headache as everything else becomes too bright.

Also with LCD monitors, coupled with my freakishly tall stature, the bottom of the monitor, which is about a foot below my eye level, is sometimes completely washed out with your faded text or controls unless I bend over to lower my eye level. Note that this does not happen with any other application I have.

My monitors are about as high as I can make them without it being so my wife would have to stand on the chair to use the computer, so raising them is not really an option. (Actually at work, someone suggested I just suspend my monitor from the ceiling rather than placing it on a platform as it was closer to the ceiling anyways.)

Thanks for listening.

Clinton

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 1:22 PM

Ray Timmermans:
It also tends to make Logos 4 look more like a toy not a tool.  If we must have this "feature" I would like to have the option of either turning it off altogether

 

I'm not one for complaning but I have to agree...Logos is a serious piece of software for a serious job and I wonder if this is not more for the eyes than the exegesis.....Let's not lose focus...the last Logos frontier is the "serious exegesis" (so to speak) market and Logos gets a bad rap..many times not warrented...this just might be the wrong direction to dispel these kinds of observations....no?

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 64
David Stevely | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 28 2009 2:56 AM

Can I please add my plea to revert to a horizontal style for these words.  Colours if you must perhaps to coincide with frequency.

As it is I am getting sea sick.

 

Otherwise I must add that I have been using L4 since 20th November and now the update and am very happy.  Very few problems and those in the main relatively easily sorted.

Thanks

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 28 2009 4:43 AM

How about givng the user the option to determine the layout of the words? Just tryin to be a peacemaker.

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

Posts 179
Steve Shelton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 28 2009 6:02 AM

I believe giving the user the choice of how to display the words would be great.

Posts 134
Esther Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 28 2009 6:13 AM

When this popped up on my screen after the 4.0a release, I was confused--it was pretty, but what was it for?  But then I ran my mouse over and realized what it was.  At first this made me wonder what the best use of it was--then it dawned on me that especially with the Topics cloud, I could see just how dense that particular passage was in concepts.  Further, it's really no issue at all, the things that have been mentioned:  if you don't think a word is right, click on it to get the real thing listed out "properly".

I teach 12 year olds in Sunday School.  I think that using a picture of this (by screencap) will help them realize some things about bible study that they didn't know before, just by looking at it (like how dense a passage is, or what words might be important in the passage).

I never used the "important words" function in L3, really.  I might actually find this as a VISUAL helpful.

Disclaimer:  I don't study the original languages much, being a lay person with little knowledge of that.  If I did, that might change my attitude toward it.

Question:  I don't really understand the way the things are placed on the cloud.  Besides SIZE, is there another reason the words or phrases are laid out the way they are?  That would help me to understand how to use it better, I think.

 

Esther

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