Automatic Sync of the Current Verse over multiple Bible Software Products (i.e Logos, The Word, e-Sword, etc)

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Posts 285
Luigi Sam | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2012 9:06 PM

Thank you Both to Bob and Milford.

Milford thanks for your kind details, and insightful tips on life too!

Bob thank you for replying on your position.

 

Perhaps we are thinking of different ways this should be implemented too .

Because lets say that I personally programmed something so that it works with the protocol:

  • How would it be made available to all logos users?     Because it will be "built in" to the other bible programs - with "built in" settings.

 

Thanks again. 

PS. if you would like me to forward you a copy of the protocol (which is currently open to input and discussion until this Sunday - and then will get finalized) please send me an email via my user account email address.

 

Posts 285
Luigi Sam | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 31 2012 11:55 PM

I may as well just attach it.

 

Attached is the version 2 draft which is being discussed. This discussion is between Bible Program developers and ends on Sunday to finalize it for implementation. it comes with sample src code, and program - to demonstrate.

 

0068.BibleSync V2 Specification Draft.zip

 

 

------ Below is part of the email that was sent to participants and interested parties when the above document was distributed last Sunday.-------

Information about version 1 and version 2

  • Some of you didn’t see BibleSync version 1 – which contained a working prototype and significant documentation.
  • The BibleSync version 2 standard and sample code has been made from scratch to simplify the IPC data sharing method, and to formalize what data that will be sent. It is also designed to extensible so that the standard can grow in the future.

 

Important points about BibleSync Standard:

  • The BibleSync standard is put in the public domain.
  • BibleSync is not ‘owned or controlled’ by any one bible software name. BibleSync is independent of an affiliation in this regard. It is developed and shaped by those who spend the time to comment on it, and make recommendations.
  • The BibleSync standard is yet to have an independent webpage to view it from and currently it is distributed by email.
  • The BibleSync standard will likely have a small logo so that if you wish to advertise this as a feature to your users you may. The Logo will say: BibleSync Compatible, or BibleSync Supported.
Posts 3163
Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 3:39 AM

Luigi, you keep pushing for your own interoperability model when Microsoft has built COM as an interoperability model into its products. and that's what Logos uses. I think Bob has been pretty clear on this. If you have read up on COM, you will probably see it offers quite a bit more functionality than your spec does.

The world doesn't need a vendor-supported interoperability mechanism and a custom developed one. Why don't you try and build something pulling out what you want from Logos using COM? Interoperability is more properly provided lower down the software stack, and not at the application level anyway.  Have you read anything about COM and the capabilities it offers for software that supports it?

In any case - I think you have gotten your answer from Bob, time to move on to plan B.

Posts 285
Luigi Sam | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 5:26 PM

Hi Dominick.

most people who have replied ASSUME:

1. that this is a personal project - It isn't.

2. that I need COM. Which means either I haven't explained it properly or the people who have replied dont understand the point of this.

 

I've used Microsoft.Interop.Excel in the past so I know what COM does and similar technologies. If you are a programmer then you should know that I'm not focussing on Logos as an Individual program which I am coding something for - I am helping make a way for ALL bible programs to share data through a Protocol. Do you know what TCP/IP is?  this is on the same type of level - except that it is a protocol for ALL bible software to send packets of data to each other. 

How many times do i need to say the same thing?

 

P.S In .Net, Com is only there for legacy / support reasons - there is a transition happening there...

P.S.S This protocol will support sharing data over multiple OS types. PC/MAC/Linux/Phone - Os'es. ( over the local lan as well as over the local computer.)

(To any Bible Program which has implemented support for the Bible Sync protocol.)

 

Posts 8111
LogosEmployee

Luigi Sam:

Because lets say that I personally programmed something so that it works with the protocol:

  • How would it be made available to all logos users?     Because it will be "built in" to the other bible programs - with "built in" settings.

As Bob implied, we are not planning to add support for BibleSync directly to Logos 4. After reading the proposed protocol document, I believe that this is something that can be accomplished by writing a helper program that implements BibleSync for Logos 4. As mentioned earlier, this should be achievable using the PanelChanged event and CreateNavigationRequest/Navigate methods.

There are several advantages to doing this:

  • It can run with any (Windows) version of Logos 4 or 5, as far back as 4.2 (or 4.0d, depending on what API features you need). If we implemented it, it might not be available until 5.0c or 5.2 or some future version.
  • If your program runs in the background, it could launch Logos 4 (or offer to launch it) when a BibleSync message arrives.
  • You would be able to release updates to this program as frequently as you wish, without waiting for us to ship a new version.
  • You would be more likely to implement the BibleSync protocol without bugs, since (I assume) you are the lead spec author.

These are all reasons why we implemented a generic API that other programs can code against, rather than implementing specific protocols. We have provided sample code that illustrates how to call our API: https://github.com/LogosBible/Logos4ComApiDemo.

If this program is free to any Logos 4/5 customer and aids them in their use of the software, I see no reason why we would prohibit a link to it from our public wiki or the forums. (Other helper programs have been announced here before.)

BTW, are you affiliated with biblesync.org? If not, you may be infringing their name and logo. If so, I find it strange that this project and documentation aren't mentioned there; it's the first place I looked (before you had posted the spec in this forum).

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 8:41 PM

Noticed Microsoft has a technical documentation library that includes Windows interoperability => http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj712081%28v=prot.20%29.aspx plus a number of protocols use Component Object Model (COM) and Distributed Component Object Model (DCOM), including => http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc216757%28v=prot.20%29.aspx that allows messages to be queued for play back later.  Also noted peer channel protocol => http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc219453%28v=prot.20%29.aspx

For Logos integration, sync with Mac application is a bit challenging since Logos 4 and 5 do not have the COM API interface (Windows only).  However, AppleScript can interact with User Interface, thread => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/39805/297113.aspx has an example with a Logos 4 Mac Layout.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 285
Luigi Sam | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 8:47 PM

hi Bradley:

Firstly Thanks!!! I am relieved that you understand, and have replied.

Second: BibleSync.org is’nt affiliated with this protocol.

  • I had no idea of that site, nor of their logo. I will need to double check that the graphic designer didn't get any inspiration from their logo. (as I understand the basic sync image is generally used as an industry standard when the concept of sync'ing is used, but I want to make sure there was no connection).
  • Also if their is a problem with the naming I will change it to BSP the BibleSync Protocol. I'm guessing they had the name first.
  • Currently the BibleSync Protocol and efforts has been performed by email. Craig from Laridian has offered to set up a  MailMan server on Monday so this will improve communication methods a little more.



Third: Regarding being the Lead Spec Author:

I originally created the Version 1 Spec, and the Prototype. I then got as many Bible Program Developers as I could to comment. Upon review we discussed that it would be better to implement slightly differently so that programs can communicate directly over a standard Internet Protocol.


  • In summary V1 required a middle-ware program to accomplish similar functionality as an Internet protocol multi-cast message would - and centralized most of the settings.

  • V2 as you can see just uses an established Internet Protocol, and builds on it. it allows all Bible programs to customize the communication settings.


Back to the point: I asked the main person responsible for suggesting the change from V1 spec to the V2 spec to write up the new version of the spec. Which he did after we all agreed that it was the best approach to take. So my role now is more of like a coordinator while this gets established - I am not affiliated with any bible program - and the lead spec author of Spec 2 is Costas from theWord. (However his affiliation with theWord and the BibleSpec protocol are strictly regarded as separate entities - as the BibleSync Protocol has no place for it being named by any individual bible program - it is independent in this regard). Also there are several different developers from different bible programs which are giving input into this specification at the moment. So when this is finalized I’ll ensure that every bible program and related developers get their name on the credits - especially for comments, and protocol recommendations etc.

 

I hope that this fills you in a little better.

Gratefully I will post the finalized version 2 spec when it is released. I can say that it will have a few changes from the draft to make it suitable for use. I can also say that the recommendations/input/comments from various developers has covered quite a lot.

Thanks again for your time.

 

 

 

EDIT:.......

It seems the Graphic Designer accidentally based his design on the biblesync.org logo because he mistakenly thought that I was doing some work for them (i.e he googled biblesync and just assumed - it was not intentional).

This is being fixed - I have also emailed someone at biblesync.org explaining the situation - and checking if they have any issues.

 

Also to clarify my points about the V1 Spec and V2 Spec:

V1 Spec was totally different from the V2 Spec. It covered 'How to' and why. It had nothing to do with creating a protocol like v2.

V2 Spec was made from scratch - and has a protocol 'only' focus.

 

 

 

Posts 285
Luigi Sam | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 15 2014 7:30 AM

Updates 2014

The Bible Sync Protocol has now been implemented by Xiphos (May 2014) Karl at Xiphos isthe first of the interested Bible Software Parties to implement it.

Logos Forum X-ref: (this is formalizing the information posted to a different thread which wasn't related)

Home>General>Looks like Zondervan bought themselves some Bible software... Posts:

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/84414/593284.aspx#593284

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/84414/593939.aspx#593939

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/84414/593995.aspx#593995

References:

Xiphos 3.2.0 Reference (May 2014 Release):

http://sourceforge.net/projects/gnomesword/

A Generic library can be viewed on Git Hub

( as provided by Karl, and is public domain material. Be aware that it seems the Git Hub Generic Library might have gpl dependencies to build it as it stands. However the BSP code is public domain material.)

https://github.com/karlkleinpaste/biblesync

You can view the Spec here: (But Please do not edit the wiki)

http://biblesyncprotocol.wikispaces.com Signin Details: user: General_Public password: password

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