64-bit?

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Jackie Watts | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Oct 19 2012 6:17 PM

When shutting down some other applications from activity monitor I don't see if Logos 4 is 64-bit yet. Is it? If not, I don't remember how to get it there (did this on my 2008 MacBook Pro). I am running latest version of MLion (10.8.2) on MacBook Pro Retina with 8GB.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 19 2012 7:36 PM

Jackie Watts:
I don't see if Logos 4 is 64-bit yet. Is it?

Logos 4 is a 32 bit application on Mac and PC, which includes current 4.6a Beta 4 release.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 19 2012 7:41 PM

Sorry, Logos is still a 32 bit application. Under the Apple Menu, select "About this Mac". The click "More Info…". followed by "System Report" All this is no 10.7.5

On the left-hand column and Software, select Applications. This report will take a bit of time to populate (You can see the little wheel spinning in the lower right corner). Find Logos and look to the fifth column (64-bit). Unfortunately, L4 says No.

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Martin Diers | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 20 2012 11:47 AM

Logos has nothing to gain from running as a 64-bit application.

The only significant difference between a 32-bit and a 64-bit application, is in regards to memory usage. A 32-bit app can, for all practical purposes, not access more than 3GB of memory. If Logos needed that much memory in the first place, then running 64-bit is the least of the developers' concerns.

There are other advantages to running 64-bit code for certain types of calculation-heavy software, but Logos would not benefit from them.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 20 2012 12:20 PM

Martin Diers:
Logos has nothing to gain from running as a 64-bit application.

With 30 GB of Logos data and indexes in my Logos 4 folder, anticipate 64-bit addressability being useful; would allow memory to be used for temporary search results instead of writing dozens of files to a temporary folder.

Updating and managing shared code base with Windows is a bit challenging.  Apple's OS X can easily handle 32 or 64 bit applications.  In contrast, a 32 bit Windows system cannot run 64 bit applications.  Hence, Windows would need 32 bit and 64 bit installers if Logos migrated application to 64 bit.

Likewise, the .NET framework and Mono project code need to be 64 bit enabled (clean).

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Martin Diers | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 20 2012 1:51 PM

Yes, of course loading everything into memory will be faster than reading it from disk. However, this isn't even practical.

Presuming you had such a beast, Imagine how long it would take to launch Logos if you had to read 30 GBs of data into memory every time?

Further, the problem of indexing and searching large volumes of information without needing it all loaded in memory has been around long before memory was measured in gigabytes. Database applications regularly work with vastly larger data sets than anything in Logos, and do so efficiently, from disk, via very intelligent and clever algorithms and optimizations.

My point being: if this were the only way to make Logos fast, then the problem would not be memory requirements, but how how Logos is engineered.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 20 2012 2:04 PM

Martin Diers:
Database applications regularly work with vastly larger data sets than anything in Logos, and do so efficiently, from disk, via very intelligent and clever algorithms and optimizations.

The database engines have migrated to 64 bit for larger memory addressability with intelligent caching of data.  Also some web sites use in memory databases for noticeably faster response.

Logos has a number of opportunities for performance improvements along with fixing features.

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Daniel Bergquist | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 22 2012 8:08 PM

Martin Diers:

Logos has nothing to gain from running as a 64-bit application.

The only significant difference between a 32-bit and a 64-bit application, is in regards to memory usage. A 32-bit app can, for all practical purposes, not access more than 3GB of memory. If Logos needed that much memory in the first place, then running 64-bit is the least of the developers' concerns.

There are other advantages to running 64-bit code for certain types of calculation-heavy software, but Logos would not benefit from them.

 

While for the most part this is accurate, there are some aspects of 64bit apps that are not directly tied to 64bit capability that are beneficial.

First, the x86-64 arch provides many more registers than the 32-bit x86. This means the CPU can run all kinds of calculations faster.

On a 64bit OS, a 32bit app requires that 32bit libraries to be loaded. This eats up more load time and RAM. Granted, this is mitigated a bit by the fact that there is normally a number of 32bit apps already running, but this will be less and less the case as time goes on. Which leads me to my next point....

As a Mac and iOS app developer I fully expect Apple to drop 32bit app support within 5 years and require all apps on OS X to be 64bit. While I'll probably be proven wrong, my money is in OS 10.10 and possibly even as soon as 10.9. If Logos doesn't start thinking about 64bit soon, they will be left behind.

While I think the correct choice would be to move to a more native implementation, the merits of tying Logos to .NET/Mono have been discussed ad nauseam on this forum. With the recent release of Mono 3.0, 64bit Mac support is now possible without having to jump development platforms.

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