Logos 5 Upgrade

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 5:18 AM

Bokman Han:

I guess Logos should let Logos 4 users upgrade for a price about 50 bucks or more but not more 100.

 

You may well find that you can.

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 5:37 AM

Justn Cho:
I personally think that we should not express our anxiety or anger about the announcement of Logos 5.

I agree. But we are small creatures after all and fear, uncertainty, and doubt often take over. But I am disappointed that grace and hope are not the first responses we have towards one another. *sigh*

Justn Cho:
LOGOS should announce their developing Logos 5 at least couple of months ago.
Well, they can't really. They have to leave the lights on and pay their workers, and eat sandwiches. Those things cost money. Bob Pritchett talked about Logos' razor thin profit margin here. HOWEVER Logos has always had a generous RETURN policy.

Someone who bought Scholars Gold last week got one set of resources, someone buying Gold L5 today is getting different resources (with some overlap). That difference means that even "upgrading" (I don't like the word) is going to cost because of all the different/new resources and databases.

Justn Cho:
LOGOS should provide SOFTWARE UPGRADE ONLY VERSION for Former users today.
Bob Pritchett explained the future engine download here.

Justn Cho:
 Think about Office software (Microsoft Word or Adobe Acrobat). They also have different level of software such as Pro or Standard... However, the difference between their Pro and Standard is acceptable.  Standard users can be satisfied with their level. They do not disappoint not being Pro users because their differences are acceptable.
They are only acceptable because you don't want the pro features. I don't need Access database and hence I don't want it. But If I wanted Excel, I would get the package that contained it (the lower packages did not use to - don't know if they do today.)

Justn Cho:
3. LOGOS 4 still needs to be developed
And it is still being developed! There are future releases being planned right now!

Justn Cho:
many customers may think that Logos now shift their main focus to the Logos 5 and may forget the problem of Logos 4.
I've been using Logos for years now and I can guarantee they won't just drop L4. Look for L4 to be supported for a good long while.

 

 

I know this whole process is a surprise for a number of people. All I can urge at this point is two things.

1.  Ask questions and read the answers.

2. Expect Logos to keep their promises, they will, or they'll make it right. I've seen this happen over and over again.

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Posts 22
Tim Chesonis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 6:23 AM

I just called Logos, and asked if there was an upgrade from 4 to 5, and if it was free or what the cost would be.  He politely told me that "at this time their is no cross reference upgrade".  You could tell he obviously felt very uncomfortable telling me that in order to "upgrade" during the Christmas season, I would have to purchase the entire package . . . . . . all over again (at a 15% discount)., . . . . . or I could wait until they offer a "Logos 5 features only" upgrade that will probably come well after Christmas.

Does the upgrade from Logos 4 to Logos 5 "features only" justify payment for the upgrade?  Absolutely.  Will I wait to upgrade to Logos 5?  Absolutely.  

Think of all the missed sales that they won't make on upgrades before Christmas.

Very disappointing.  Very, very disappointing.

I hope they learn something from this "marketing strategy".

Logos, to make it very clear . . . . . rolling Logos 5 out this way makes your loyal customer base feel like you have slapped us in the face.  Doesn't loyalty count for anything?  A 15% discount is another slap.  Charge us what you charged us when we upgraded from Logos 3 to Logos 4, or even a little more if you want.  No other Software company (that I know of), requires one to purchase the entire product again in order to "upgrade".  How long do you think such a software company would last?  Even Apple learned . . . . by offering their Mountain lion UPGRADE for significantly less, (I believe it used to be $129, and is no $29 for the upgrade).

Signed - Disappointed.

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 6:40 AM

Tim Chesonis:
Charge us what you charged us when we upgraded from Logos 3 to Logos 4, or even a little more if you want.  No other Software company (that I know of), requires one to purchase the entire product again in order to "upgrade".

Tim, 

You are not buying the entire product again, you already own the books you already own - and always will.

The upgrade prices for packages is based upon resources you do not yet own and the new databases. You can see this on the upgrade page at logos.com/upgrade. Click the "New to you" button on that page. Also please read where Dan Pritchett explained the calculator.

 

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 6:40 AM

Tim 

I am sure that Logos will get back to you when they read this thread - because it flies in the face of everything that they promise and are indeed promising again and again on this forum as we type.

You will never need to purchase your package again.

What you have you have and it will not be taken away.

If you choose to add a new package at this time in order to get the new features of L5 then every resource in your library will be discounted from the  additional package ensuring that you will only have to pay for new resources that you do not own.

I imagine that, if you go to the list of new packages on the web site and select either Silver (or Gold for access to one additional database) you will find that the price of the addition is not to great.

It might help others to get a handle on the situation if you were to let us know what you have and what you are adding and the proposed extra cost for the options. If this is not sensitive data of course.

Posts 9
Chris Linebarger | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 7:23 AM

Bottom line is this. Loyal L4 should be given the opportunity to upgrade to L5 at a minimal cost (let's say anywhere from $25-$100). Why? Because we are loyal, we've spent a lot of money, and in L4 (Mac user) we were given a product that is bloated and extremely slow; too slow for what we paid. We should be taken care of before new users. That's good business. There is no doubt that we are all thankful for the hard work of Logos. But this is a business and this business needs to take care of their loyal, paying customers.

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Philana Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 7:28 AM

Chris Linebarger:

Bottom line is this. Loyal L4 should be given the opportunity to upgrade to L5 at a minimal cost (let's say anywhere from $25-$100). Why? Because we are loyal, we've spent a lot of money, and in L4 (Mac user) we were given a product that is bloated and extremely slow; too slow for what we paid. We should be taken care of before new users. That's good business. There is no doubt that we are all thankful for the hard work of Logos. But this is a business and this business needs to take care of their loyal, paying customers.

Which you will when they release the crossgrade. This has been stated repeatedly on the forums. Logos servers cannot handle current upgrades as it is. So they are processing those users who choose to do a upgrade. When the launch period is over, and the servers no longer taxed by huge resource downloads. Those who want the new features but not new resources can purchase a minimal crossgrade, just like they could for Logos 4.

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 7:31 AM

I just want all of the new features, not all of the new resources, but I have to buy larger base packages just to get all of the new features.  As someone who has spent quite a bit of money at Logos this is disappointing at best....

Teacher, Ministry Leader, Student, Author, Husband, Lover of Baseball!

Psalm 34:18

Posts 9
Chris Linebarger | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 7:33 AM

Ok. My point still stands. We go last. And, I should not have to read through forums to figure this out. This should be stated openly and easily on the front page of their website. Again, we are thankful for the product, but recognize bad business when we see it.

Posts 1880
Philana Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 7:33 AM

David Taylor Jr:

I just want all of the new features, not all of the new resources, but I have to buy larger base packages just to get all of the new features.  As someone who has spent quite a bit of money at Logos this is disappointing at best....

You will be able to purchase a crossgrade after the product launch. The only thing Logos is doing is delaying the crossgrade. Given the taxed servers from massive upgrade downloads, is probably why. You will be able to purchase the new features...just not during the product launch.

Posts 203
David Salazar | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 7:40 AM

Can't remember but the minimal cross over or at most to stay with the basic Scholar's NAME was $127 when I went from L3 to L4.

There were so many things wrong, things that were going to come out that took a long time, some I think still didn't get down (apparently they are still going to be developing L4) and now in the future there will be a charge to go to L5 when L4 wasn't even a truly finished product.  Doing service updates is one thing, but L4 always needed major updates.  4.6 really is what L4 should have been to start out with then give it it's life span and then bring out L5

Similarly like Sermon File-Addin, they sold it for near end L3 and promised that it would come out in L4.  In the end for all practical sense it never came out in L4 (a few week in beta version, not sure if I came out a week or two in stable version) and now there is L5.  Also it seems that Sermon File-Addin is now FREE for anyone with a base package.  Now I admit that Logos can offer it free in another version but come on, don't charge for it and then not have it in L4 and then say it's free for all base packages when those who bought it at 50 barely got to use it (depending on when purchased also)

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 7:40 AM

David Taylor Jr:
I just want all of the new features, not all of the new resources, but I have to buy larger base packages just to get all of the new features.  As someone who has spent quite a bit of money at Logos this is disappointing at best...

David, please read what has been said over and again here.

Free engine - sometime in the future

Lower cost crossgrade with just the data sets and what is needed to use all the new L5 features - coming.

So don't buy an upgrade if the resources you'd get aren't what you want. Sit tight. You can use L5 sometime soon.

I know Logos has created confusion and misunderstanding, and many feel they should get the new software as early as anyone else, but here you can learn things are not as totally bad as you think.

Be sure to read the FAQ.

 

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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Philana Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 7:58 AM

David Salazar:

Can't remember but the minimal cross over or at most to stay with the basic Scholar's NAME was $127 when I went from L3 to L4.

No that was a minimal upgrade...you could have gotten just the minimal crossgrade with just what was needed for the new features. It was under $100 ($89 I think). If you just want the software engine, without the new features that required Logos employees who are knowledgeable in biblical languages to manual tag the entire Bible (for the new clause search Logos 5 knows that when you search subject:Jesus you also want anyplace He is referred to using a pronoun and not just His name). Since this cost money to pay the employees they cannot give this new stuff free. After the initial product the engine will be available for free, and the minimal crossgrade will be available for purchase.

As to the sermon file, some paid, some got it free during a promotion. New users paid for it in the price of their upgrade to L4. It was brought back in L4.6a in Personal Books with syntax enhancements to the Personal Book tool to allow for the building of indexes based on speaker, title, passage ect. No offense, but with any software or tech release people will barely get to use something before it might be offered free with upgrades. That's the nature of technology, it changes, and can do so suddenly.

So you can currently use the sermon file in Logos 4.6a which is still available.

Posts 12
John Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 8:02 AM

that sounds reasonable to me too. 

Posts 56
Ken Hicks | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 8:42 AM

Wouldn't this have worked better in reverse?

Rather than push out massive package updates with GB's of data, they could have offered the cross-grade to existing customers for a fee (I would pay up to $150) in advance of the revised base package offerings. Without any metrics (and this is a big assumption), it seems like that would have had less of a server load than the current approach. The goal with this tactic (not used in a negative sense) was to emphasize base package upgrades since it seems natural that cross-grades would have cut into those sales substantially. I have no problem with that. Logos is a business and should be allowed to make money in an ethical manner. I do have concerns about 'server capacity" as a reason for the delayed cross-grade offering. 

Just my 2 cents... and that's exactly what it's worth (or less given current exchange rates." Big Smile

 

Philana Crouch:

You will be able to purchase a crossgrade after the product launch. The only thing Logos is doing is delaying the crossgrade. Given the taxed servers from massive upgrade downloads, is probably why. You will be able to purchase the new features...just not during the product launch.

 

Posts 10
Tesfaye Haile | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 9:13 AM

There are two things that I see. One is a psychological issue. The other is a pragmatic one. When a person, who owns a Portfolio, is given a choice to upgrade his or her library to Logos 5 Portfolio level the price can become a big problem. For the sake of saving money the person can go to a lower level and abandon the status of having "Portfolio"Sad. The number of books this person has can be more than Level 5 Portfolio, and yet his level is named Logs 5 Gold. This is not a good commercial method? Is it? Can it be? The effect of this is more of emotional than value. This can cause a problem of communication with the logos sales representatives. What is the value of labeling the products? Their grading has a commercial value. It is true for some products that the higher you go, you not only get more resources but more features as well. It is at the same time weird for a person to have more books than the Portfolio, and yet for the sake of upgrading takes the lower label name, to save money and at the same time gets the new Logos 5 features. What benefit is Logos is gaining when they keep the Logs 4 names for the base packages of Logos 5? Is it not helpful for costumers, for the sake of enhancing easy communication, to add new levels or add few books or at least give a separate price for the new feature and give choices for customers to decide which ones to get? In my case for instance, I had a Logos 4 Portfolio with a more collection than the base price of the Level 5 Portfolio. But to save money and get the upgrade the chance I have is to go to lower level. For me to maintain the Portfolio level is costly. I knew that Logos is not charging me for the already purchased books that I have. I am uneasy to get a lower level even though I get additional resources. Having said this I do not want to make this a big problem because it does not affect the benefits I get from the Library. But Logos must at the same time consider the emotional side of doing business. I believe Logos will consider this and come up with what some solutions to this problem. Logs must flourish and must be successful. They have done a terrific job. We need to commend them for that. At the same time they need to see ower concern as well.

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 9:20 AM

Tesfaye,

I agree that it was not the greatest idea to keep the same names for drastically different packages.

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 56
Ken Hicks | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 9:23 AM

Yes I don't want my current disappointment with their marketing to cloud the fact that I appreciate Logos and use it on a daily basis.

 

Tesfaye Haile:

They have done a terrific job. We need to commend them for that. At the same time they need to see ower concern as well.

 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 10:42 AM

Steven Langella:
Still on the Potters Wheel.

+1 Smile

OSX & iOS | Mac Logs | PC LogsInstall

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jonB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 12:34 PM

yeah.  i have the scholars silver library from logos 4.  to upgrade to the new silver library is about $250.  to upgrade to the gold is $650.  i asked him about the silver library.  he told me that silver doesn't have any of the new features of logos 5 and it's not worth it unless you get the gold library.  when i asked him for specifics, he dodged my questions and kept telling me how awesome the gold package was.  and he kept saying, "but we can put you on a payment plan so it's not a big deal."  when i looked up the differences between the two base packages, the gold has 2 or 3 more features than the silver, but the silver still has most of the new features.  he was making it sound like the silver package was just logos 4 with a new face but if i wanted the real logos 5, i had to get the gold.  i wouldn't say the guy lied to me but he definitely mislead me in order to sell me a package that was $400 more expensive.

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