Disappointed

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This post has 272 Replies | 18 Followers

Posts 31
Mitchell Borrows | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 12:45 PM

how come hes being really sarcastic?

Posts 8148
LogosEmployee

Mitchell Borrows:

how come hes being really sarcastic?

I don't believe Bob intended to post a sarcastic reply on the forum. I think there may just be some miscommunication happening; I re-read Bob's post and didn't see the sarcasm.

If you identify what you thought was sarcastic, maybe Bob could post a clarification explaining what he meant.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 1:02 PM

Michel D. Mahler:

I don't understand. So I click the link. It tells me my upgrade is over $600.

There is some misunderstanding.

 

Michel, I think you are misunderstanding what is going on. Here are a few facts:

  • You will never pay twice for your resources
  • The basic Logos search engine has always been free and still is with L5
  • The basic, free, L5 search engine has not been released for download yet.
  • Logos 5 has some enhancements that use some (not free) databases. If you choose not to upgrade to L5 with all the bells & whistles, and go with the free software instead, you will not experience the full capabilities of L5

Maybe it could have been introduced differently. Say, L5 free version (engine only) and L5 Plus (including all the new databases and graphics.) I do not think it is immoral or unethical fr Logos to charge for new resources (books) or for new databases that sweeten the L5 experience. I hope you check out what is new in the new L5 packages and reconsider the value for the money. If it is not for you then just be patient for a few more weeks until the basic engine gets released. I wish you well.

)

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 1:03 PM

Jimmy Smith:
I, too, am disappointed in LOGOS.  From all I have read I believe did not do their research before making such a drastic shift that affects all of their long-time loyal customers in such a negative way. Talk about a move that have damaged their brand, this is it! 

I have been through three major upgrades as a customer with them, and I would say that especially the last two have always been accompanied by growing pains.  The Logos 4 you love and recommend was quite vilified and abhorred by others.  I remember myself going through a steep learning curve, and this may sound strange, but I experienced a kind of grief or loss over the switch from 3 to 4.  After about 2 months, however, I loved it.  Your experience may be different, i'm just hoping to normalize that the change that happens usually causes upheaval, no matter how careful and prepared they are.  And they find that they sometimes could have done a launch better.  Makes me think of some of my attempts at switching church programs . . . 

 

Jimmy Smith:
have talked 12 pastors into buying LOGOS 4 this year.  We were all going to go together to a training session in March of 2013.  Now, I don't know if I want to mention it again.  That will be another $225.00 and we would not even be learning the current software.  Or maybe they will talk about LOGOS 5 and we will be sitting there with LOGOS 4. 

My guess is that by that time, all of you will have some version of the Logos 5, even if it is the basic engine only.  And Mo will probably be aware that not all of Camp Logos 1 people will have Gold or higher, so he will spend time with those features that most all share.  Camp Logos 2 might get into the more nitty gritty.  I'd ask him straight up, however, rather than taking my word for it. I'm just guessing based on what they have done in the past.  There is still a lot of similarity between 4 and 5, so that even having 4 will not render a Camp Logos unhelpful.  much will be the same.  That said, with a free engine, or minimal cross grade as options in the near future, by the time Camp Logos rolls around, you'll all be on the same page. 

I am kind of envious you got that many guys together to do a camp.  sounds like a lot of fun.  I always went be myself, even though i tried to get guys to go with me.

Regardless, Mo is top knotch, and will work with you.  His aim is to be helpful.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 1:15 PM

Mitchell Borrows:

If you have the logos logo under your name do you work for them?

correct, they are employees or THE employer.  :)

BUT, the ones with a star (like for me), we are just regular folks like you, not employees.  We love Logos, hang out on the forums, try to help where we can, but we don't live or work in Bellingham--although technically we COULD live there.  I live in MO.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 6513
Forum MVP
Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 1:23 PM

Dan DeVilder:
BUT, the ones with a star (like for me), we are just regular folks like you, not employees.  We love Logos, hang out on the forums, try to help where we can, but we don't live or work in Bellingham--although technically we COULD live there.  I live in MO.

Dan, you could invite over for lunch one of these days, or adopt me for a day, so that I could have an address in Bellingham. Big Smile

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

Posts 31
Mitchell Borrows | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 1:24 PM

Amongst all the disappointments i would like to say that logos is the absolute best bible software out there and that it has helped me in so many ways. I couldn't imagine not having logos as part of my study life!!  

Posts 4625
RIP
Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 1:43 PM

Mitchell Borrows:
Amongst all the disappointments i would like to say that logos is the absolute best bible software out there and that it has helped me in so many ways. I couldn't imagine not having logos as part of my study life!!  

Thank you, Mitchell for switching to such a wonderfully positive note!  So much appreciated.  Indeed!

          I am the oldest MVP (ordinary guy - volunteer) and have been called Methusalah by a couple of my fellows, part of our trying to help those using the Logos Forums to maximise their use of Logos Bible Software.  We are just simply volunteers who have been given the opportunity to "serve" those using the Logos Forums.

                      I am at just about 19 years of using Logos Bible Software and use this wonderful software to focus in on God's Word many times a day ordinarily.  Over the years I have been involved with the Logos NewsGroups and the Logos Forums.  So please permit me to share with you and others in these forums that I have never, ever heard Bob Pritchitt being "sarcastic"!     That would be absolutely foreign to him.

                I have just spent a few minutes in prayer concerning these matters.  And I will be praying again about some of these matters.  The Christian Church needs to be deeply into God's Word.   It is so unfortunate that the Evil One comes to the fore when Christians are trying to communicate with each other on a very high plane. Let's be on our guard, please.       Treating one another with honour and respect!         Peace to all!               and Always Joy in the Lord!            *smile*

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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Forum MVP
Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 1:50 PM

Lynden Williams:

Dan DeVilder:
BUT, the ones with a star (like for me), we are just regular folks like you, not employees.  We love Logos, hang out on the forums, try to help where we can, but we don't live or work in Bellingham--although technically we COULD live there.  I live in MO.

Dan, you could invite over for lunch one of these days, or adopt me for a day, so that I could have an address in Bellingham. Big Smile

i assume you mean Dan Pritchett.  or maybe your Bahamian orientation is not too familiar with mainland US geography.  Missouri is farrrrrr from WA.  But, for that matter, you can come to St. Louis anytime you like, Lynden--come on over!  As for me, I used to live within 70-90 miles of you . . . in Miami.  A guy in my church was from the Bahamas--he recently passed away--and among the many things I remember about him: he had suits tailored to be short sleeved!I and  he used to be a limo driver for the UN.  Good man, he was.  Full of stories.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 10671
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 7:46 PM

Milford Charles Murray:
I am the oldest MVP (ordinary guy - volunteer) and have been called Methusalah by a couple of my fellows

I did not call you Methusaleh Geeked. If memory serves—and it may not as I am only a few months younger than you are—you asked who was older than you, and I replied "Methusalah?"

Seriously, the star under our avatars are sort of a prayer request. Logos has identified us a addicted to forum reading and posting. They then added a star to our avatar so other users would be warned not to fall into the same pit—Something like the television program Beyond Scared Straight Geeked

We have somehow convinced Logos that we can actually assist people in their use of the software, and some who have the star are really helpful Big Smile.

it's getting late here; obviously, I need to go to bed.

Posts 2747
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 8:08 PM

Dan DeVilder:

Bob Pritchett:
We could call Platinum "The Fred Collection"

I actually kind of like that!  Maybe I will just dub my L4 Portfolio "the Winston Churchill Collection."

As an owner of the Lord Chamberlain collection, I can upgrade to Churchill for only $295!! Woot!

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 8:14 PM

Dan DeVilder:
What is different is that L5 includes several powerful tools, which, if you want them now, you much buy a resource package (silver, gold, platypus, etc) which gets you new books, new databases and Logos gets a way to recoup their heavy cash outlay.

I'm thinking I might have picked the wrong upgrade: Maybe the platypus one would have been better. (I'm wondering if that was a joke or a spell-checker overstepping and thinking cute furry animals are better than some kind of grey metal.)

Actually, I hope the one I went with will be just fine. Maybe more than I needed to spent (I could have waited and spent zero), but I looked at some of the sets that would be included, and after a few at $200 here, $375 there and so on, they added to well over the upgrade price. I know not everyone has spare cash, or more important, have other demaresources.nds on how they need to use it. For me, its in part a "treat" on account of the new job I start Monday.

Also, I've something spent more money on far less important things that my "investment" in Logos software / packages /

Posts 549
Shawn Drewett | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 8:36 PM

Seriously, I am so sorry that I ever invested in Logos 13 1/2 years ago. This last announcement virtually killed any "love" I had left for the product. It's obvious Logos wants to be a "big boy" in business and play by "big boy" rules. Talk about a money pit! I feel sorry for those who tend to be impulsive in their buying because it's easy to spend THOUSANDS with Logos and later deeply regret it. I should have stuck with free Bible Software products and accessed many resources from the internet. I simply don't belong in the Logos economic class anymore! They have moved on and left me on the lower middle class category. I HATE to invest and regret it! My money is too valuable to me. ..

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 8:47 PM

Shawn Drewett:
Seriously, I am so sorry that I ever invested in Logos 13 1/2 years ago.

Very sorry to hear you say that Shawn. You've been an active presence here.

That said, really Logos isn't for all. You've pointed out one group for whom Logos (and some other Bible Study software) could be a problem: people with impulsive buying habits. However there are others. Some don't need all Logos offers. They'd never use a third of it. Some buy hoping Logos will take the work out of Bible study. No software can do that. They are probably disappointed.

Logos is a library system that works best with a lot of resources. In the last three to five years Logos has managed to add a dizzying number of resources, enough of them of real interest to me to get me to pay for them. Logos works even better for me. The iPad app has been a real plus. I use it for other things but bought the iPad for Logos. Money, money, money.

The new upgrades are not compelling to me. I'm doing a lot of thinking about just  waiting for the minimal crossgrade. But I'll keep using Logos.

As I said, sorry to hear you regret becoming part of the Logos community.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 549
Shawn Drewett | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 8:57 PM

Mark, I believe yours is a very kind reply and I appreciate it. I believe you've got me pegged. IOW, I'll never use a third of it. I just regret I chose to make Logos my chosen bible software over 13 years ago. I had no way of knowing which way the company would go. It is Rolls Royce, and I am Dodge. If I could only get even as much as HALF as what I've spent on it!

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Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 9:04 PM

Shawn Drewett:
I had no way of knowing which way the company would go. It is Rolls Royce, and I am Dodge.

Apt comparison, I suppose. Some wouldn't quite put it in the Rolls category from what I'm hearing the past few days.

Shawn Drewett:
If I could only get even as much as HALF as what I've spent on it!

I hope if you try to sell it you will. Sadly a large library is harder to sell than a small one.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 549
Shawn Drewett | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 9:10 PM

Well, I wouldn't call mine large. It is 1100 books. Have you known anyone to sell their library and if so how much did they get?

Posts 499
SteveHD | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 9:20 PM

Hope this is a reasonable place to post this. I really can't tell but I feel I need to give my reaction.

I think the "New" old resources we are seeing in the new databases are things they can't sell separately. I already own a package with lots of stuff I have not had time to read. So just create a new version, add functionality to it that people will want, add in some "New" resources, and charge a lot for it.

Tell them all the package they have had still is theirs to use. It just is, well disabled a bit compared to what is in the new databases; which is what is needed to use the new features. Maybe I am wrong but who really knows.

I already own the 3 NT Wright works “Christian Origins and the Question of God Series” but the upgrade shows them as new to me (granted I got them as part of a bigger set and they are individually named in my library). I already paid for 106 issues of themelios. Now I will have 111. That is not worth $550.00 to me. NAC commentary has 40 volumes marked as new to me but I have most of the old and new testaments already. Believer’s commentary is not new to me and I have it hidden since I don’t use it. Now I have to pay for it again because it is on the list as new to me.

If you want me to pay for a software upgrade (I just gave Microsoft $15.00 for their OS) I will pay for it. But don’t charge me$550.00 or more because I already own such an expensive set as the Platinum one.

From my perspective I have to think in terms of a very simple mind. If I was just buying the software would pay $550.00 for it as an upgrade on its own. Not even close. I buy my Adobe Photoshop upgrades every other version because the few good new features are just barely worth $200. By the way even Adobe is reducing the price of their upgrades.

I truly believe that I have been given the impression over the years that I would never incur that sort of cost again. I know, I have seen your mention of a free or crossgrade or something version. But it is always followed by a very long explanation of but…

If I must I will pay this when I can adjust my year’s budget. The cost for me to Logos will be that I will cancel all prepub and community priced items. If in 2014 I feel I have made up for this expense I might start buying resources again. By the way Since I bought the upgrade to platinum in 2010 I have spent more than that on additional resources like the NT Wright set which the upgrade tool indicates will be new to me (sorry I already mentioned that).

Surprises should be left for Christmas mornings.

Wait a good surprise might be something like, pay us 550.00 for the upgrade and then we will let you pic from a long list of some resources you really don’t have already. Then you get those, in your database, and you know you are getting something you want. I think you just had a big sale on Calvin's Commentaries. I didn’t buy it then and I really don’t want to buy it now.

I see one thing in the list of platinum new or new to me items that I have ever really considered buying; and it was too expensive as well. That is the “Exegetical Summaries Series (24 vols.)”. But again if I have to buy this then I am not going to buy other things I want like Bock’s Jesus book when it is ready. Too bad you feel compelled to do my shopping for me.

Sorry for any nastiness I was unable to remove. I can imagine the Logos team sitting around planning meetings feeling certain that everyone is going to just be all kinds of excited. People were just going to be entering those credit card payments and agreeing to your long term payments.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 9:51 PM

SHotchkiss:
I already own the 3 NT Wright works “Christian Origins and the Question of God Series” but the upgrade shows them as new to me (granted I got them as part of a bigger set and they are individually named in my library). I already paid for 106 issues of themelios. Now I will have 111. That is not worth $550.00 to me. NAC commentary has 40 volumes marked as new to me but I have most of the old and new testaments already. Believer’s commentary is not new to me and I have it hidden since I don’t use it. Now I have to pay for it again because it is on the list as new to me.

Personally wish the upgrade page had a count of resources that would be new to me; personally have 12 volumes in a 15 volume collection so 3 volumes would be new.  The upgrade page has the "New to you" icon on a line that shows one or more resource(s) would be added to a library.

Resources from previous purchases are still usable in Logos 5.  To effectively use new features in Logos 5 needs new content; minimal crossgrade option is coming.  For content, anticipate a package upgrade being better than a minimal crossgrade.

Suggest looking at all lines of what is new.  Logos 5 changed the upgrade rules since can choose any package content, regardless of previous purchases.  Also, the upgrade page includes credit for previous purchases.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 11
Joey Ferrell | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 10:23 PM

Unfortunately, I am in that same boat as most of the posters here...except I am a brand new customer of Logos less than a month ago.  I am now trying to decide what the best course of action to take is - refund, hang tight with software that is not what I expected, or ante up another $250ish to upgrade.

 

Very disappointing.  Sent email to the customer service team that I was on the phone with for an hour and a half tonight, copying Bob and Dan as well.

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