Disappointed

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This post has 272 Replies | 18 Followers

Posts 483
Gary Butner, Th.D. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 5:00 AM

Mitt Romney strongly disagrees with you. He says "Corporations are people, My friend".

Legally corporations are persons, but clearly they are not persons as to how we normally use the word.

 

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 5:17 AM

Dennis Miller:
I will admit to you and to all that I have let my disappointment cloud my judgement and for that I apologize. I don't want to say goodbye to Logos,

Accepted.

May I make a recommendation? When the Minimum Crossgrade is released—soon, but don't know how soon—purchase that. If L5 dod not live up to your expectations, take advantage of Logos' generous return policy. 

Posts 218
Dennis Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 5:20 AM

Dan DeVilder:

fwiw, I have heard that Mac performance in 5 is much better.  maybe when the free engine comes out, it will improve your own experience.  

I really want to believe that and yes my experiences with the people of Logos and not just the entity behind the product has always been positive. Much of my frustration and comments towards them were uncalled for and unfair. Bob has always been up front about the mistakes he's made in some of the choices that went into L4 development on the Mac platform and has even apologized for that and been very visible on these forums when He definitely has more important things to do, for that I thank him. I will have to continue monitoring all the mac users on here and see how their experience with L5 is going before I take the plunge again.

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 5:37 AM

Dennis Miller:

Dan DeVilder:

fwiw, I have heard that Mac performance in 5 is much better.  maybe when the free engine comes out, it will improve your own experience.  

I really want to believe that and yes my experiences with the people of Logos and not just the entity behind the product has always been positive. Much of my frustration and comments towards them were uncalled for and unfair. Bob has always been up front about the mistakes he's made in some of the choices that went into L4 development on the Mac platform and has even apologized for that and been very visible on these forums when He definitely has more important things to do, for that I thank him. I will have to continue monitoring all the mac users on here and see how their experience with L5 is going before I take the plunge again.

Thanks for this post. It was encouraging to read.

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 5:42 AM

Dennis,

L5 Mac is running really good for me on my 2008 MBP running Lion. It is fast, responsive and when I compare it to the PC version I have running at the office it is very comparable. My prayer is that you will find satisfaction with this update. Please post back when you get an opportunity to update.

 

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 6:24 AM

Dennis Miller:
I will have to continue monitoring all the mac users on here and see how their experience with L5 is going before I take the plunge again.

If you have any specific questions, comments, even rants, my email address is jackcaviness at mac dot com

Feel free to contact me. I cannot give you any comparisons with Accordance. Although I have faithfully upgraded to 9 and then to 10, I have not taken the time to learn the new system.

Posts 3
Dennis Schreiber | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 10:30 AM

I read through a lot of these posts...accept the boring stuff and the bantering...here's the bottom line for me. They tell me it's going to cost me a little over 300 to upgrade. Yes, I get it...the engine is free and if that's all I want, no worries. But I don't want my Bible software running ahead of me so far that it will...and IT WILL...get too far out of reach. Someone compared it to a Rolls Royce and a Chevy (although I would have least said Honda!!). I really don't need seat-warmers in my Bible software. I know some of you (especially the Logos people) are going to be real excited about a lot of "cool" new features...and I admit, new stuff is cool once you get to using it. It's just that I attached myself to this particular program and it really bugs me that every there years or so they want to extract another upgrade fee in the form of $300 from me to keep me up with the cool stuff, after telling me all the good reasons not to buy hard copies of my commentaries and other books. Again, I get the free "engine thing" in a few weeks. But again, $300 to stay up with the cool features. There are some commentaries and other resources I would rather put that money towards...forgive me if I sound cheap, but...well...sorry! I think I paid 19.99 for the new Apple OS program. That was relatively painless. Could we take a lesson from these guys...small increments? Who cares what "color" my edition is now, bronze or blue! And again, sooner or later the next new engine isn't going to work with the "old program."  Yes, I'm somewhat irritated and really it is okay, folks, to be irritated. I don't expect Bob, or Dan, or anybody from Logos to change what they're doing...I just have to rethink if this is what I want to continue doing every three years or so. Especially in light of the fact that there is so much more free stuff popping up on the web these days! I just think, Bob, Dan and company (and this is obviously just my opinion) that maybe you are leaving some of us behind who are perfectly fine with a good running Honda!

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 10:38 AM

Hi Dennis

Dennis Schreiber:
Again, I get the free "engine thing" in a few weeks. But again, $300 to stay up with the cool features

Just to clarify. The Minimal Crossgrade (not yet available but should be shortly) will provide all / most of the "cool" features for probably less than $100.

Details at http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58259.aspx

Graham

Posts 705
JH | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 10:49 AM

When you say the minimal crossgrade should be available "shortly", does that mean days, weeks, months?

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 10:49 AM

Dennis Schreiber:
I just think, Bob, Dan and company (and this is obviously just my opinion) that maybe you are leaving some of us behind who are perfectly fine with a good running Honda!

You puzzle me. No one is forcing you to upgrade. If you are content with what you have, why upgrade? L4 will continue to work just like it does now indefinitely. In fact, Bob has stated that development on L4 will continue. So pardon me if I do not understand what upsets you so much.

If Logos does not continue to move forward, they become stagnant and someone else will take their place.

Dennis Schreiber:
I think I paid 19.99 for the new Apple OS program.

Frankly, you are comparing Apples to oranges. What is the relationship to the cost of an OS upgrade to the cost of a Logos upgrade?

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 10:59 AM

JH:

When you say the minimal crossgrade should be available "shortly", does that mean days, weeks, months?

All I know is the information in the post to which I linked.

In it Bob Pritchett states:

"- Yes, but when? We're not sure, but it won't be a terribly long wait -- though it may feel that way if you've watched the Logos 5 videos! I know it's hard to wait when it looks (and is!) so cool...."

That's all we have at the moment.

 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 11:13 AM

Dennis Schreiber:
Again, I get the free "engine thing" in a few weeks. But again, $300 to stay up with the cool features. There are some commentaries and other resources I would rather put that money towards...forgive me if I sound cheap, but...well...sorry! I think I paid 19.99 for the new Apple OS program. That was relatively painless. Could we take a lesson from these guys...small increments? Who cares what "color" my edition is now, bronze or blue!

Something to consider: Apple makes their money on the sale of hardware. Logos doesn't have that option. They make money by selling resources, which includes books and "features" with "data sets." Resources with copyright's sill in effect mean that the largest portion of what you are paying is going to the publisher and author. When Amazon sells you a book, their obligation is over (other than hosting the title on their servers). When Logos sells you a resource, they continue to provide additional functionality. If you don't buy new books, Logos is providing this benefit to you for free. How will Logos stay in business if people don't purchase new resources? How will they stay in business if they don't sell these new features to existing customers?

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 10
James Jordan | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 11:20 AM

JH:

When you say the minimal crossgrade should be available "shortly", does that mean days, weeks, months?

This seems to be the question that I would like to see answered.  It's hard for me to believe they can't provide general guidance on when this should be available. 

Posts 68
Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 11:58 AM

I haven't read all the enteries in this thread but did read several pages of comments some complementary to Logos and some fairly critical. I have been in the software business for a long time now and trying to use words precisely is always an issue.

Seems like the wrong word to use here is "upgrade". L5 may not be the excat correct word to use. Logos has relaesed a new version of their software. For technical and business reasons the package names used in the past are still used but the resources inside the packages have changed. Logos has always been about selling resources. I have been using their product since it was LIbronix. I have invested a consierable amount of money in this product and resources.

Software design, production, release, and support is not cheap these days. And its costs in the future will continue to go up. No doubt the cots of software improvement is built into the reosurce cost and costs are also covered through "new business"  (new customers). But everytime I have purchased a resource in the past (and there have been many) a little bit of the price was target for future software improvements.

Having said all that, Logos is the most advanced product on the market. Otherwise I would have switched several thousands of dollars ago. It appears to me that they have a L5 platform scheduled for release but have not set a date yet. Since they are selling "new" L5 packages now support and developement will be busy for awhile keeping up with "bugs" and stuff. I understand the L5 upgrade will be free. Your L4 resources will work in L5 but the current ugrade they are currently offering will take advantge of the new databases required to use ti its full extent.

My plan now that I see the costs involved of upgrading to a new release (and I will) I can budget for it. But L4 works perfectly fine unitl I have the new cost budgeted. I would never expect Logos no matter what I had been told or thought I had been told that I would expect a terrific new version free of charge. I want Logos owners, staff, and team to be around for awhile and I am happy to contribute to my part of the cost to continue to receive a terrific product.

So I give Logos a thumbs up. I do think they could communicate better. But most software companies keep some details close to the vest as delivering specific products on customers expected timetable is hard to do and customers are rarely happy  when tehir expectations are not met. In the past I have seen some pretty critical comments made about Logos in these forums. But being the best at waht tey do comes with many pitfalls and challenges. I have found that patience works pretty well as they have always delivered for me.

Thanks Bob and Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas to yo uand all your staff. Keep up the good work. 

Posts 11
Joey Ferrell | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 12:19 PM

Just to update on my end...

Logos worked out an upgrade program with me that was customized to keep my resources and get the new datasets.  While I have not had time yet to explore the new program, I can already tell that it will be much better than 4, even though I had only had a little experience with 4.

I also picked up 200+ new resources even though the calculator didn't list quite that many.

 

Thanks for working with me Logos.  I will update (presumably with praise) soon.

 

 

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 1:45 PM

James Jordan:

JH:

When you say the minimal crossgrade should be available "shortly", does that mean days, weeks, months?

This seems to be the question that I would like to see answered.  It's hard for me to believe they can't provide general guidance on when this should be available. 

Bob is very reluctant to predict dates since he was badly burned with predictions of the initial release of Logos for Mac 

Posts 54
Fred T Daniel Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 9:50 PM

Mark, I have nearly the same sentiments.  After many years with Logos/Libronix, i have built an impressive library while taking advantage of pre pubs, sales, etc.  I have L4 Portfolio and a number of special choice books and collections.  I hardly see any value in purchasing more books just for the sake of the engine, and have chosen to just wait for the crossover.  HOWEVER, I am disappointed that customers of long tenure with the larger L4 packages and/or larger libraries were not considered as first-reach-out with the new frillies!!!  I hardly see myself spending $2000 on books I don't know just to get the engine - I have already bought crossovers before and LOTS of books - seems old-timer loyals were forgotten in this new upgrade.

Posts 9
The Paraclete Ministry | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 10:51 PM

I agree. I sure would hate to see this company be like everyone else.

God Bless - Jeremiah 29:11

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 2:47 AM

Fred T Daniel Jr:

Mark, I have nearly the same sentiments.  After many years with Logos/Libronix, i have built an impressive library while taking advantage of pre pubs, sales, etc.  I have L4 Portfolio and a number of special choice books and collections.  I hardly see any value in purchasing more books just for the sake of the engine, and have chosen to just wait for the crossover.  HOWEVER, I am disappointed that customers of long tenure with the larger L4 packages and/or larger libraries were not considered as first-reach-out with the new frillies!!!  I hardly see myself spending $2000 on books I don't know just to get the engine - I have already bought crossovers before and LOTS of books - seems old-timer loyals were forgotten in this new upgrade.

Fred, I'm with you on not wanting resources just for the sake of resources . . . no point in that.  some packages don't excite me that much, although I do find some decent products.  I realize that has some to do with the publisher's restricting how their products are marketed/sold.  That stinks, too.  I was almost going to respond that it might be an interesting idea to have a kind of 'pre-release' offer to "loyal" customers.   While that makes sense on one hand, I wonder--could Logos be charged with favoritism by others--with favoring the "rich" . . . and if they made the cut-off threshold at (eg) 9000 dollars spent in 10 years, would the user who spent 8000 cry FOUL~! or, the one who was only a year user, but spent 3000 .. . I think it could be a lose-lose for Logos.  Kind of like in NCAA football, trying to determine the BCS bowl teams, someone ALWAYS feels cheated, no matter the model.  Just wondering.

I'd recommend, if you haven't, calling them, and seeing what kind of deal they might work out for you.  They usually are really responsive.

 

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 165
Wayne | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 3:25 AM

Dan DeVilder:
I was almost going to respond that it might be an interesting idea to have a kind of 'pre-release' offer to "loyal" customers.   While that makes sense on one hand, I wonder--could Logos be charged with favoritism by others--with favoring the "rich" . . . and if they made the cut-off threshold at (eg) 9000 dollars spent in 10 years, would the user who spent 8000 cry FOUL~! or, the one who was only a year user, but spent 3000 .. . I think it could be a lose-lose for Logos

I think there will always be some unhappy customers no matter what approach they take. I do think that this upgrade has been smoother than the change to Logos 4.

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