Selling Logos 4 rather than upgrading to Logos 5

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2012 7:14 PM

Mike Estes - Logos:
Going to the compare on the Verbum packages page:
http://www.logos.com/catholic#compare

Personally noticed Verbum Capstone upgrade (with larger promotional discount):

is a bit less than Verbum Master upgrade

Personally wonder what is new in Verbum Capstone ? (looking forward to comparison page enhancement)

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2012 8:51 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Personally noticed Verbum Capstone upgrade (with larger promotional discount):

Now that's what I call a good upgrade price! Not to say exceptionally good. But you've got Portfolio, right? So you've got all the expensive language stuff.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Personally wonder what is new in Verbum Capstone ?

Not yet published:

  • Canon Law Collection (2 vols.)
  • Apostolic Constitutions and Exhortations of John Paul II and Benedict XVI (51 vols.)
  • The NRSV Apocrypha and RSVCE NT RI's
  • 2 vols Divine Armoury
  • Vatican II Documents (Latin Edition)

With that price you can't possibly be missing much more than that. Didn't know you had so many Catholic resources. Have you used the 15% discount code?

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2012 9:16 PM

fgh:
Have you used the 15% discount code?

Noticed "New Testament Apocrypha" and  "PBI New Testament Studies Collection (11 vols.)" would be new along with a number of Church Documents; downloaded 163 resources (82.7 MB) after placing order.

Keep Smiling Smile

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Mike Estes - Logos | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2012 10:05 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Mike Estes - Logos:
Going to the compare on the Verbum packages page:
http://www.logos.com/catholic#compare

Personally noticed Verbum Capstone upgrade (with larger promotional discount):

is a bit less than Verbum Master upgrade

Personally wonder what is new in Verbum Capstone ? (looking forward to comparison page enhancement)

Keep Smiling Smile

Yep, entirely possible depending on the resources you already own that are in the package.  I am very much looking forward to the improved comparison page for the Verbum packages as well.

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2012 10:29 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Noticed "New Testament Apocrypha" and  "PBI New Testament Studies Collection (11 vols.)" would be new along with a number of Church Documents; downloaded 163 resources (82.7 MB) after placing order.

I payed $99.95 for PBI alone...Crying I'm beginning to seriously regret a number of my purchases the last year...Crying

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2012 7:29 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Noticed "New Testament Apocrypha" and  "PBI New Testament Studies Collection (11 vols.)" would be new along with a number of Church Documents; downloaded 163 resources (82.7 MB) after placing order.

Home Page has list of updated resources:

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 67
Jeff Hetrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2012 2:59 PM

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The first mistake we may be inclined to make is mistaking LOGOS for a church or spiritual function of the church.  That’s not fair to LOGOS.  LOGOS is a for profit business.  With that said, I too have likely purchased my last upgrade from LOGOS which also means I have made my last purchase of any kind from LOGOS as I will not continue to purchase add-on resources for my library that will eventually become obsolete.  So, it was nice (and very expensive) all the way through my most recent purchase today (upgrading my Platinum package to V5 Platinum package).  Like so many others, I’m sure, I made the mistake of believing V5 would be a major upgrade (you know, like V4 was) and didn’t research the product sufficiently (having an apparent false trust in LOGOS).  There are some nice (and even useful) features in V5 but nothing even approaching the company charging me another $600 plus to “upgrade” a product I already own.  Why I’m really upset with LOGOS though is their intentional misleading their customers.  The proof is in the pudding, so to speak.  If you click on the upgrade icon you will be taken to the upgrade page where you can select the current “package title” that you have and see all of the resources that are “New” to V5 as well as everything that will be “New to you”.  Don’t be fooled by this marketing ploy.  Stick with the old columns that have a dot in each row (for each resource) that is included in the particular package you are considering.  The “New to You” column doesn’t change so, for example, if the “New to you” column shows resource X as being new to you as you are reviewing the Platinum package don’t believe that you are getting resource X.  Resource X, while showing new to you with the Platinum package highlighted, may actually only be new to you if you purchase the next level package and in many cases the most expensive Portfolio package; however, the New to You resources do not change based on the package you have highlighted so you really can’t use that column at all to learn anything useful.  In other words, no matter what package you have highlighted and are considering upgrading to the “New to You resources show the same.  Shame on LOGOS for that.  Marketing is marketing and business do that but I didn’t expect dishonesty or intentional misleading of it’s customers from LOGOS (my mistake in light of my first statement in this post).   When I had the Platinum package (which I already owned in V4) highlighted the page showed me how much I would be paying for the “upgrade”.  The same page also had a column all the way down the page clearly stating that a very long list of resources would be “New to me” with the upgrade.  There is actually no other way to interpret that that makes sense to me.  Imagine the surprise when those new resources weren’t actually included in my $600 plus upgrade.  This would be a shameful practice for even a secular business selling any product.  I just bought a new truck, a Ford F150.  I was shocked to see, online, just how many different versions (or packages) the F150 comes in.  Nicely though, Ford does a great job of clearly identifying for the customer which features are available for each version (LT, XLT for example).  When you make the purchase, you know exactly what you are buying.  For anyone tempted to accuse me of being “unspiritual” or “harsh”) let me just say that if your Church leaders took up a offering for a missionary knowing they were actually going to put that money toward the building bund you would feel betrayed and maybe even as though you had been robbed.  When the majority of those “New to Me” resources that were promised as part of my upgrade were actually not part of my upgrade… well, I feel robbed.   

Posts 10963
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2012 3:14 PM

Jeff ... you might want to edit your input with paragraphs for easier reading?

But I agree. Just this afternoon, I went thru the upgrade comparison page probably for the 5th time in the last week and a half and made the same mistake AGAIN.

But though I think Logos' marketing is ethically a step below most 'gentile' companies (if there is such a thing), this one is very likely a spreadsheet-artist error. It's not unusual anyway to see it on comparison pages in Logos.com.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2012 3:16 PM

Jeff Hetrick:
The “New to You” column doesn’t change so, for example, if the “New to you” column shows resource X as being new to you as you are reviewing the Platinum package don’t believe that you are getting resource X. 

The "New to you" will be new to you no matter which package you get since you don't have it in your library.  Check to see whether there is a dot in the package you selected corresponding to the "New to you" icon.  It would still be new to you even though you don't order it and won't get it.  You need to take the responsibility upon yourself to exercise good judgment in reading the chart.  There is no "marketing ploy" here by Logos. 

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2012 3:35 PM

George Somsel:

Jeff Hetrick:
The “New to You” column doesn’t change so, for example, if the “New to you” column shows resource X as being new to you as you are reviewing the Platinum package don’t believe that you are getting resource X. 

The "New to you" will be new to you no matter which package you get since you don't have it in your library.  Check to see whether there is a dot in the package you selected corresponding to the "New to you" icon.  It would still be new to you even though you don't order it and won't get it.  You need to take the responsibility upon yourself to exercise good judgment in reading the chart.  There is no "marketing ploy" here by Logos. 

Personally wish "New to you" included a count of new resources. For example, my Logos 5 Portfolio upgrade showed NAC Commentary (40 vols) being new; after upgrade, found one NAC volume added to my library, which completed 40 volume set.  Thankful for discount calculator including credit for 39 NAC Commentary volumes.

Noticed the delta upgrade difference from Diamond to Portfolio was less than 10 % of the combined regular price for a number of resources, which were in my wish list.

Keep Smiling Smile

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Jeff Hetrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2012 4:11 PM

You are spinning it George but I can appreciate the impulse.  Additionally, I do believe I took the opportunity to admit that I did not evaluate this upgrade well enough.  Still, there is no way to qualify your explanation.  The column doesn't say new to me if I purchase a certain package.  It says New to You while you have a chosen package pulled up.  That's the ploy and, while it could be a error it's a convenient one and accounted for $600 plus of my dollars that I would not have paid otherwise.  Good spin though George... some will adopt your interpretation.  This is not about being confrontational or causing problems for LOGOS... my intention was to alert potential buyers to what Logos has not alerted them to so their decision is more informed than mine was.

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2012 4:30 PM

Jeff Hetrick:

You are spinning it George but I can appreciate the impulse.  Additionally, I do believe I took the opportunity to admit that I did not evaluate this upgrade well enough.  Still, there is no way to qualify your explanation.  The column doesn't say new to me if I purchase a certain package.  It says New to You while you have a chosen package pulled up.  That's the ploy and, while it could be a error it's a convenient one and accounted for $600 plus of my dollars that I would not have paid otherwise.  Good spin though George... some will adopt your interpretation.  This is not about being confrontational or causing problems for LOGOS... my intention was to alert potential buyers to what Logos has not alerted them to so their decision is more informed than mine was.

No spin, fact.  Now that you have upgraded, I challenge you to choose some resource which you received that you didn't have before then go back to the upgrade page and find that resource.  I'll wager it will no longer show up as "New to you."

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2012 5:32 PM

DMB:
Jeff ... you might want to edit your input with paragraphs for easier reading?
Yes

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2012 7:02 PM

George Somsel:
I challenge you to choose some resource which you received that you didn't have before then go back to the upgrade page and find that resource.  I'll wager it will no longer show up as "New to you."

I have not yet upgraded. Maybe I am misreading the "new to you" list but one thing I know for sure. I purchased the A. T. Robertson Collection (15 vols.) in 2009. To my knowledge, no additions were ever made to that collection. It shows up in my "new to you" list as if it is new to me with the upgrade from L4 Portfolio to L5 Portfolio. Other collections show as new to me when I already have 39 of the 40 volumes and I wonder if I really get credit for the first 39, as KS4J said.  The College Press NIV Commentary got a couple new volumes added and a few resources that I had in L4 were reworked and presented as "new to you" editions. How was the revision more than the customary updating we have always received for free in the past?

Like I said, I may just be totally illiterate in reading the "new to you" lists on the comparison charts, but the way I read it, I get the same resources if I "upgrade" to Diamond as if I upgrade to Portfolio. I don't see any change in the presentation of the "new to you" contents.

These concerns bother me enough to delay my upgrading until I have talked to a sales person on the phone. With 7 (SEVEN) pre-Pubs shipping tomorrow, I am probably delayed until December on my L5 upgrade. Sad


Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2012 7:16 PM

Super Tramp:

George Somsel:
I challenge you to choose some resource which you received that you didn't have before then go back to the upgrade page and find that resource.  I'll wager it will no longer show up as "New to you."

I have not yet upgraded. Maybe I am misreading the "new to you" list but one thing I know for sure. I purchased the A. T. Robertson Collection (15 vols.) in 2009. To my knowledge, no additions were ever made to that collection. It shows up in my "new to you" list as if it is new to me with the upgrade from L4 Portfolio to L5 Portfolio. Other collections show as new to me when I already have 39 of the 40 volumes and I wonder if I really get credit for the first 39, as KS4J said.  The College Press NIV Commentary got a couple new volumes added and a few resources that I had in L4 were reworked and presented as "new to you" editions. How was the revision more than the customary updating we have always received for free in the past?

Like I said, I may just be totally illiterate in reading the "new to you" lists on the comparison charts, but the way I read it, I get the same resources if I "upgrade" to Diamond as if I upgrade to Portfolio. I don't see any change in the presentation of the "new to you" contents.

These concerns bother me enough to delay my upgrading until I have talked to a sales person on the phone. With 7 (SEVEN) pre-Pubs shipping tomorrow, I am probably delayed until December on my L5 upgrade. Sad


I think it might have been good old What's-his-face who said that it would be marked as "New to you" if a collection had been updated but that you would get credit for what you purchased.  Sorry about not remembering his name—brain freeze.  You know who I mean.  He did the Apostolic Fathers interlinear and the other abominables. 

Rick Brannon

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2012 7:18 PM

Super Tramp:
Other collections show as new to me when I already have 39 of the 40 volumes and I wonder if I really get credit for the first 39, as KS4J said.

Suggest reading thread => Problem: upgrade new to you section that includes a quote from Bob Pritchett and a reply from Bradley Granger about dynamic upgrade pricing including credit for all volumes in your Logos library.  Also, Dan Pritchett replied in a thread => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58028/412973.aspx#412973 that later had a reply from Bradley Granger => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58028/413675.aspx#413675 about two revised resources in Logos 5, which would be "New to you".

Super Tramp:
With 7 (SEVEN) pre-Pubs shipping tomorrow, I am probably delayed until December on my L5 upgrade.

Option is calling Logos early tomorrow morning since pre-publications with ship dates can be added to a payment plan with a Logos 5 upgrade.

Keep Smiling Smile

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2012 7:22 PM

George Somsel:
it would be marked as "New to you" if a collection had been updated but that you would get credit for what you purchased. 

But George, I have had the A.T. Robertson Collection in it's entirety since 2009 yet it is "new to" me, even in the Portfolio upgrade.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2012 7:32 PM

FWIW: Against my better judgement, I upgraded and, at this point I am somewhat disappointed .

First : the price was much higher talking to a sales person than it was looking at the upgrade page, was told there are indeed problems with the upgrade calculator, as I had reported.

Second : I asked very, very specifically if the Verbum Master upgrade had all the data sets and features, was assured it did.

I got to 5.01 min. it Mark Barnes video and realized after checking my settings that I do not have very much at all. 640.00 dollars and I don't have anything worthwhile to me as far as the Program Feature Sets itself working as advertised. ( or being there )

That said, it does seem to be faster and a bit more stable. I have only had two crashes in about 8 hours of work ( which is a new record for Logos stability for me ). I have only had a couple of spinning pizza's. The problem of it opening in a very small screen in the lower left corner is now back, but I am used to that so know what to do.

Download was smooth, indexing time was much improved, though it still hammers your processors at about 148%

It does load a bit slow, or at least seems too as it takes a min. to fill in the screen. At first it looks like artifacts, then fills on in.

It does seem to be quicker when open, scrolling stayed stable for a pretty good while before the usual slowness and jumpiness .

I have a 2009 Macbook Alum. , 2.4 gig core 2 duo with 8 gigs of Ram. which exceeds the min. specs for a Mac.

I will try to get Logos on the phone this week if possible with my work schedule.

All this to say:

1. Beware, BEWARE the upgrade calculator.

2. The program does seem better, stability improved, scrolling improved etc.

3. Be aware you may not get what you think you are buying.

Hopefully Logos can work this out, if not, I have the 30 days to back out of this purchase. 

For those with the newest, really fast machines, some of these things will not be an issue, but do be aware, Logos 5 is still not going to perform like other Mac Programs.

Again,I do think it has been improved quite a bit, but still has a way to go.

Logos is still sorting out sales issues.

Get these things sorted and I think most will be at and beyond where they were with version 4.

Ok, off to check settings again and see if I missed anything.

 

 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2012 7:33 PM

Super Tramp:

George Somsel:
it would be marked as "New to you" if a collection had been updated but that you would get credit for what you purchased. 

But George, I have had the A.T. Robertson Collection in it's entirety since 2009 yet it is "new to" me, even in the Portfolio upgrade.

Puzzling: please call Logos to investigate.  Noticed 15 A.T. Robertson resources (with brown book covers) are *.lbsllx files that were last updated on 19 June 2009.

Note: my Logos 5 Portfolio upgrade showed the collection as new to me, which added 3 new resources to my library (were on my wish list).

Keep Smiling Smile

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2012 7:47 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Suggest reading thread =>

Thanks. I have read those already but the Robertson title does not appear to have been updated or added to since I purchased it. Another question this raises is: Am I allowed to sell a Logos resource I have but don't use and is not included in any base package or upgrade or package purchase?  I bought Hermenia and NICOT/NICNT as a stand alone purchases. I have never been credited anything on upgrades since these two titles are not part of any packages I have purchased. IF I find I don't need them and wish to pass them to someone who does, does Dan's statement about "We actually broke down every title we have in the entire Logos universe" preclude users from transferring resources that are not part of any of the packages?

I still find many flaws in the Logos.com website "grey-out" feature. Many titles I own are shown as not being in my library. If the dynamic calculator is counting on the same infobase to determine what I have, then I definitely have a problem. I once reasoned the grey-out feature was based only on product bought directly from Logos and disregarded third-party purchases but that is not born out in my observations.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Option is calling Logos early tomorrow morning since pre-publications with ship dates can be added to a payment plan with a Logos 5 upgrade.

No longer an option since I will be locked in an oxygen tank for a couple hours starting at 8 and followed by a Dr. appointment. Time

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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