Selling Logos 4 rather than upgrading to Logos 5

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 26 2012 8:57 PM

Bill Clements:

I am considering changing software too.  After spending $6,000 in the past few years, I just learned that the next upgrade is another $2,000.  Which is now $8,000.  But, if I were a new customer the REGULAR cost would have only been $5,000.  Seems to me like I should be getting a rebate, rather than another charge.

Am I missing something?

Welcome Big Smile

A new customer purchasing a Logos 5 base package would not have resources from earlier package upgrade(s) that are no longer included: e.g. Pillar and several Baker Commentary Series.  My order history includes 7 upgrades; would have been less expensive if had done fewer, larger upgrades.

My favorite Logos feature is visual filter highlighting can combine hundreds of search results for simultaneous display; wiki has => http://wiki.logos.com/Extended_Tips_for_Highlighting_and_Visual_Filters#Examples_of_visual_filters  English is not Greek; Thankful that visual filter highlighting can show range of Greek verbal expression in a passage.

Thankful for Logos Hebrew Morphology; albeit learning significance of 35 verbal stem variations may take awhile.

Thankful for Logos Master Library Builder bundles plus Logos 5 base packages, which have dynamic upgrade pricing so only pay for resource(s) that are new to you.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 31913
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 26 2012 9:23 PM

Welcome to the forums.

Bill Clements:
Am I missing something?

Probably because the dollar amount you give for upgrading seems out of range compared to the cost for others. How are you defining "upgrade" - where are you currently sitting and what package do you consider "upgrading".

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 397
John | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 26 2012 9:55 PM

Bill Moore:

BibleWorks charges $199 to upgrade from BW7 to BW9 and $159 to upgrade from BW8 to BW9.

Comparing BW to Logos is definitely Apples to Oranges. BW is a mature product that gets better with each release. Would be a bargain at twice the price.

I've upgraded Bibleworks each time since v4. On v9 now. Never for a minute thought it was not worth it. Bibleworks is a solid program that doesn't crash. What it does, it does very well. I'm willing to pay for that. I'm not willing to pay for an incomplete and buggy version 5 program when version 4 was still buggy and incomplete when version 5 was released. Thats Why I still run Libronix 3.0g. I have a low tolerance for bugs and crashes.

 

 

Posts 1
David O'Brien | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 27 2012 12:48 AM

BS:

I've been a Logos customer for over eight years.  I've decided that I won't be upgrading to Logos 5.  The broken promises surrounding the Logos 4 release (especially the pre-publication feature advertised as "coming soon" and it turning out to be over a year), and the Logos 5 marketing strategy have left a bad taste in my mouth.

In order to maintain the "platinum" package label I'd have to drop over $600, and not get anything I really want or need.  Sure, I would get a few books, but very little I'd even consider purchasing separately.  

Does anyone know if the $20 fee to transfer your license to someone else is a one time blanket fee for the entire transaction, or is it per package, or per resource or what?  I have Logos 4 Platinum, Word Biblical Commentary, and the HALOT/BDAG bundle. Would that be three times $20 to sell everything?  Or just $20 if it all went to one buyer?  

I have been a Logos customer since it shipped on 5 1/4 inch floppies, and this upgrade has lost me.  One of the things that kept me coming is the fact that you could upgrade the software, to keep current, but now it seems version 5 has blown that idea out of the water.  I also have the Platinum, but while I would love to access SOME of the new books, there is so much I don't want I can't see paying the enormous cost when I'm really not interested in pastoral, counseling, and all the public domain stuff that clogs up my hard drive.  I hope this doesn't mean they will eventually stop supporting version 4.  If they do pull out at some point the thousands I've already spent goes down the drain with a single hard drive crash.  I'm not a happy camper.

Posts 24529
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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 27 2012 12:53 AM

Hi David

David O'Brien:
One of the things that kept me coming is the fact that you could upgrade the software, to keep current, but now it seems version 5 has blown that idea out of the water.

Are you aware that Logos will be making the L5 engine available as a free download in the first quarter of 2013?

This will allow you to continue using your resources but with the new UI (but not the extra features available with the various chargeable upgrade options)

More details are available at http://blog.logos.com/2012/11/5-ways-to-move-to-logos-5/

Graham

Posts 938
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 27 2012 7:47 AM

John:

Bill Moore:

BibleWorks charges $199 to upgrade from BW7 to BW9 and $159 to upgrade from BW8 to BW9.

Comparing BW to Logos is definitely Apples to Oranges. BW is a mature product that gets better with each release. Would be a bargain at twice the price.

I've upgraded Bibleworks each time since v4. On v9 now. Never for a minute thought it was not worth it. Bibleworks is a solid program that doesn't crash. What it does, it does very well. I'm willing to pay for that. I'm not willing to pay for an incomplete and buggy version 5 program when version 4 was still buggy and incomplete when version 5 was released. Thats Why I still run Libronix 3.0g. I have a low tolerance for bugs and crashes.

Hi John. I find Logos 5 neither buggy or incomplete. On the other hand, I have BW7 and haven't been convinced to upgrade to either 8 or 9. To get the data sets and a few other resources in L5, I see $159 as very equitable. BW is a fine program. It provides good support and a helpful forum, but its focus is too narrow for my needs so I rarely use it.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 667
Jim | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 15 2013 10:31 AM

Tommy Miller:
Will my personal upgrade be more then because of my choice now? Where will it all end?....I know its only a status symbol (maybe bearing the eternal title of "Starter Pack Mack" isn't so bad). But, as I understand it, my personal upgrade price right now, is based on the fact that I own a certain "package" and now I want to go to another like-named "package."

Logos has now more clearly tied the upgrade of the technology with the resource packages. I could understand that when they went from 3 to 4 because 3 had been out a long time and 4 was a major technology shift. But they were accommodating of their customers by offering a low cost to upgrade.

Now their upgrade charts remind me of Cable TV packages. One reason I don't subscribe to Cable TV is because they entice people to take up to hundreds of channels they don't want or use in an attempt to justify the costs which are needed by the cable company to pay the exorbitant royalties on a few channels. The model plays on people's vanity. However with the economy declining and more an more people retiring, fewer people can afford that model.

Logos4 had many features that did not work as efficiently as they should have or we were led to believe they would. As long as it improved regularly, I was satisfied.   Logos learned a lot and created Logos5 but now they are marketing it in packages that contain a lot of products I don't need and can't afford. They have attempted to appeal to vanity just like the Cable TV companies with an email that gives reasons "everyone" is upgrading.

I just would prefer they honor loyal customers like they did with the 3 to 4 upgrade by giving us an early shot at the basic engine upgrade, instead of putting us at the back of the line and trying to force the expensive package deal. Is this the future marketing model, that the technology will be tied to the library "package"?

So I am now wondering if my investment in Logos' proprietary book format is worthwhile. I too ask "where will it end?" Am I going to loose my investment some day when Logos abandons me with an upgrade that obsoletes my library? Am am seriously wondering if it was wise to toss my print books in favor of their Logos electronic counterparts.

 

Have a great day,
jmac

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 15 2013 11:01 AM

Jim:
I just would prefer they honor loyal customers like they did with the 3 to 4 upgrade by giving us an early shot at the basic engine upgrade, instead of putting us at the back of the line and trying to force the expensive package deal. Is this the future marketing model, that the technology will be tied to the library "package"?

I'm not sure why you want to be put at the FRONT of the line since you apparently already have L4.  Some have said there are speed improvements in L5.  Perhaps, though it isn't that apparent to me.  If you want in at the front of the line, it is possible to get the crossgrade for $160 and have the benefits of the new platform (I'm speaking of the benefits other than speed which isn't that apparent to me).  It isn't tied to a package.  If you don't even want to get the crossgrade, you can "go to the back of the line" and wait for the general release of the engine without feeling that you've really missed that much so there really is no loss.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 81
Jim Wait | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 15 2013 11:11 AM

Thank you Logos for all you are doing.  It is the most worthwhile investment I have ever made.  Ilove Logos!  Ihave a BS in theology and MS in Biblical languages and now I have a great tool to utilize those degrees.  Also thank you for the awesome teacher Morris Proctor.  Go Logos!!

Posts 667
Jim | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 15 2013 12:49 PM

George Somsel:
I'm not sure why you want to be put at the FRONT of the line since you apparently already have L4.  Some have said there are speed improvements in L5.  Perhaps, though it isn't that apparent to me.  If you want in at the front of the line, it is possible to get the crossgrade for $160 and have the benefits of the new platform (I'm speaking of the benefits other than speed which isn't that apparent to me).  It isn't tied to a package. 

By front of the line, I mean early notice and offers like happened when they went from L3 to L4. At the L3 to L4 changeover, Logos seemed to solicit and get a lot of customer anticipation and involvement and offer inexpensive engine upgrades right away. L5 was kind of -boom- buy these expensive packages. I was unable to find the crossgrade option you mentioned.

However now that you gave it a name, crossgrade, I just did a search on their website and found it. So thank you very much.Big Smile

Have a great day,
jmac

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 15 2013 6:32 PM

Jim:
However now that you gave it a name, crossgrade, I just did a search on their website and found it. So thank you very much.Big Smile
And the free engine is being released soon.

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 15 2013 6:59 PM

tom:

Jim:
However now that you gave it a name, crossgrade, I just did a search on their website and found it. So thank you very much.Big Smile
And the free engine is being released soon.

Thread => Official: Minimum Crossgrade and free engine download are coming! provides insight about Logos 5 free engine plus follow-up thread => When will the L5 free engine come out? mentions Q1 2013.

Logos Blog has article =>  http://blog.logos.com/2012/11/5-ways-to-move-to-logos-5/  and recent article about Logos introductory discounts ending 4 Feb 2013 => http://blog.logos.com/2013/01/dont-wait-to-upgrade-introductory-discounts-end-february-4/

Speculation: wonder about Logos 5 free engine release after Introductory discounts expire ?

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 16 2013 1:34 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Speculation: wonder about Logos 5 free engine release after Introductory discounts expire ?
I was wondering about that myself.  I have been waiting for the free engine to come out before I upgrade.  If the prices go up before I get the free engine, the odds of me upgrading is very slim.  This is what I did with L4, and this is what I am planning to do with L5.

Posts 165
Wayne | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 16 2013 1:51 AM

tom:
 I have been waiting for the free engine to come out before I upgrade.  If the prices go up before I get the free engine, the odds of me upgrading is very slim.  This is what I did with L4, and this is what I am planning to do with L5.

The change from Logos 4 to Logos 5 is not the big change as was experienced from Logos 3 to Logos 4. The reason is pay for the upgrade is that you want the new data sets and capabilities. The only way you can use the Bible Sense Lexicon, do root searches, use the Timeline or Bible Facts tool is to have the upgrade. There is a 30-day money back guarantee if you order the upgrade and later decide that it is something you don't need. Just downloading the Logos 5 software engine will not be a big difference from what you have in Logos 4. If you are happy with your present setup then you can wait for the free software upgrade.

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 16 2013 2:30 AM

Wayne:
If you are happy with your present setup then you can wait for the free software upgrade.
FYI... I am waiting, and there some items in L5 that I would like.

Posts 4
Tom Dooley | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 16 2013 6:37 AM

One could almost believe Bill Gates retired from Microsoft and joined Logos...  I'm with you here that this is a rip off, strictly commercial upgrade, intended to fleece the flock.  Incredibly un-Christianlike business model.  I'm done with this

Posts 938
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 16 2013 6:53 AM

Tom Dooley:

One could almost believe Bill Gates retired from Microsoft and joined Logos...  I'm with you here that this is a rip off, strictly commercial upgrade, intended to fleece the flock.  Incredibly un-Christianlike business model.  I'm done with this

How is Logos 5 "intended to fleece the flock"? How is Logos an "incredibly un-Christianlike business model"?

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 16 2013 7:11 AM

Tom Dooley:
One could almost believe Bill Gates retired from Microsoft and joined Logos... 

Hang down your head, Tom Dooley.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 23
Riley Pippen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 16 2013 7:23 AM

Tom Dooley:

One could almost believe Bill Gates retired from Microsoft and joined Logos...  I'm with you here that this is a rip off, strictly commercial upgrade, intended to fleece the flock.  Incredibly un-Christianlike business model.  I'm done with this

I have been a pastor for 35 years now. 29 of those 35 years have been with the same and the current church. In those years, we have dealt with all kinds of vendors that have provided our church with things we needed for the church to function. Some of those have been in the service related areas such as plumber, airconditioning, electricians, etc. We have built buildings so we have dealt with contractors and builders. We have a bus so we dealt with that industry as well. We have rented large buses for long trips for large groups as well. I can't remember a time when one of these vendors said, "Because you are a church, we are going to cut you a big discount". I never felt they were being "un-Christian like". They have to make a living for their companies so they continue to provide for the public and for the churches, like us. If at any time we were not happy with their bid for the service, we went elsewhere for that need. I personally appreciate Logos for what they do and what they provide. I buy some of their resources and don't buy some of their resources. I have never felt "fleeced" because I have always felt like I had a choice.

BLESSINGS! Smile

 

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 16 2013 7:27 AM

This thread and the David/Goliath thread are such interesting commentarities on how 'Christians' think (the single quotes are only to denote the subject, versus literal people on these threads):

- What expectations one has for other 'Christians'.  Some really don't expect very much; others a lot.

- A view that a failure in ones expectations equates to the right to denegrate other 'Christians'  (and do so with great gusto too!)

- A curious comfort level that's capable of embracing a really wide behavioral acceptance into what is viewed as 'Christianity'

And the whole sequence being simply observed by Bob and company. And a wide spectrem of pastors. That 's what's really interesting.

 

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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