Official: Minimum Crossgrade and free engine download are coming!

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This post has 330 Replies | 36 Followers

Posts 99
Greg B | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 2:08 PM

Bob

I think the fact that I can access my library (with the understandable license restrictions imposed on Logos) from my Android phone (or iPhone, if you are into that kind of thing) and not pay a dime more speaks volumes of Logos support for their existing customer base. I understand that the data sets represent content not software. These and  the engine are the only thing I am really interested in and I will patiently wait for them. You have used the word "soon" enough times that I understand it won't be a long wait.

Sometimes I bristle at the price of a particular volume but the flip side of this is the excellent support that Logos gives it existing customers.

Thanks for all you do,

Greg

Posts 2089
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 6:06 PM

Tim Engwer:

I have already bought the Silver edition and love the new content - Good Job!  If I understand you correctly the Silver edition will be reconfigured to include all the new features some of which I do not have since I upgraded a week ago.  What does this mean for someone like myself?  Will I be able to get the additional features?

Tim, glad you're enjoying your purchase! The only thing you're missing at Logos 5 Silver is the Bible Sense Lexicon data. Thanks to dynamic pricing, you'll be able to purchase the Minimal Crossgrade and pay only for the content you don't yet own, which should just be the BSL data. I'd expect that to be relatively inexpensive.

Posts 2089
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 6:10 PM

Naveen Balakrishnan:

Is there a possibility to create a product with just the features (including the data sets) without the additional core sets (why are they core?) for the Logos 5 engine who are looking patiently to upgrade when it becomes available?  Looking at this from a pricing standpoint.  If I had the resources to upgrade I would, but now I am contemplating even some of the Pre-pubs I have on order.

Naveen, I think you'll find that one of our two offerings will meet your needs for a very reasonable price. We hope to have them ready and live sometime next week (assuming we don't run into any unforeseen complications).

Posts 161

What about the Personal Book Builder. From what I am seeing the forums it has not been out that long and now there is a new software version.  Does L5 have a personal book builder in it? Will books created in PBB L4 work in L5?

https://sites.google.com/a/oldpaths.org.uk/oldpaths-the-sword-of-the-spiritthe-word-of-god--eph-617b/personal-books/jamesroberts-docx

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 6:38 PM

James .... Personal Book Builder picks up in L5 right where you left it in L4. And of course it includes the assists to managing sermons that were introduced recently in L4.

No worries there.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 42
Naveen Balakrishnan | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 6:41 PM

Phil,

 

My question was based on the basic minimal crossgrade which may lack one or two features.  I was wondering if it would be feasible to get all the features of L5 with the requisite datasets without any more additional stuff (core-sets for example)?  I want the minimal crossgrade with all the features of L5 without any other necessary or unnecessary sets (the price now looks like it is going to be around 150 instead of the around 100 figure).

 

In Christ Alone and for His Glory

Naveen 

Jeremiah 15:16

 

Posts 452
Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 7:00 PM

Naveen Balakrishnan:
My question was based on the basic minimal crossgrade which may lack one or two features.  I was wondering if it would be feasible to get all the features of L5 with the requisite datasets without any more additional stuff (core-sets for example)?  I want the minimal crossgrade with all the features of L5 without any other necessary or unnecessary sets (the price now looks like it is going to be around 150 instead of the around 100 figure).

I think we're at the point now where Logos has told us all they can definitively tell us about the minimal crossgrades, and we'll just have to wait until next week to see how it shakes out in the details.

Posts 42
Naveen Balakrishnan | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 7:07 PM

Patience then is the key.  After all Paul mandates to us that we are to be patient with all men.  No point fretting.

 

In Christ Alone and for His Glory

Naveen

Ezra 7:10

Posts 1
PHILLIP LEACH | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 7:27 PM

Yes, thank you on the clarification.  I, too, was about to say good-bye to LOGOS and just assume that it had become something that only rich pastors of huge churches could afford.  I'm a missionary, no pay increases to fund the current inflation caused by our dramatically devaluing dollar, and I'm in debt as it is... I just can't afford to pay $300-$500 for ONE book set as it come to be, or over $100/mo for a major upgrade.  I've stretched and stretched the finances to get the package I have now (Scholar's), so when I look at the prices of the upgrades, I just don't have the money — and besides, I really don't need all that new content.  I already HAVE what I need.  So, I DO appreciate hearing about the planned FREE upgrades for those of us in the same boat as me — as well as the minimal upgrades you mentioned.  As one of the original beta-testers of the original CD-Word when the idea was hatched out of Dallas Seminary back when dinosaurs walked the earth (circa 1989), I really do have a heart connection to this program as well as a functional one.  Thank you for not alienating those of us who are struggling to survive on our allowances/salaries.  It really DOES mean a lot to us.  Thanks again.  A continuing loyal partner of LOGOS... albeit a poor one!...  —Phil Leach

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 8:51 PM

James William Roberts, Jr.:
Does L5 have a personal book builder in it? Will books created in PBB L4 work in L5?

Yes, Logos 5 has a Personal Books tool plus Logos 4 created personal books work in Logos 5:

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 10814
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2012 3:22 AM

DMB:
But I assume for you to complete the feature set you want, you're going to need to cough up some more dough on the high end of his range.

Disagree. If Tim already has L5 Silver, then only one Data Set—Bible Sense Lexicon—remains for him to purchase. Thus, his price should be much lower than the "high end of his range". (The BWS, Septuagint will be available to owners of Bronze when the Swete version is completed.)

EDIT: See that Phil already responded to Tim with this answer.

Posts 6
Scott Pixler | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2012 6:45 AM

Thanks for this revelation Bob... to me it is not a clarification because I saw nothing about it at all before... clarity was not the issue. This info was absent. I am greatly relieved to know this. My finances are extremely limited right now so what was originally offered was out of my reach. I also appreciate what you said:

17 years ago we made a decision to sell content, not code. We did this because we didn't like how people were forced to buy upgrades to maintain access to their library when computers and operating systems changed or were upgraded. We wanted our users to be able to buy an electronic book and know that they wouldn't have to pay again to read it just because Microsoft Windows was updated.

Many years ago I bought the Expositor's Bible Commentary from Zondervan and used it with Windows 95 and 98 to great advantage. When I upgraded to Win XP, I had to buy it again (still with Zondervan) under the name Pradis 5.1. Now I am unable to use it with my newer computer and although I have already bought it twice, Logos tells me that to use it with my Logos Library, I must buy it a THIRD time. This is not right. I'm just sayin'...

 

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2012 7:17 AM

.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2012 7:23 AM

.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 43
Larry Sterling Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2012 7:57 AM

No offense...but this launch was poorly handled.  How many customers did you lose by rushing an incomplete launch.  I am L4 Platinum user, been a customer since L2...all I want is to upgrade for new functionality not books. I will wait for the crossgrade, but I should not have to wait.  It all should have been launched at the same time. Your strategy of "paying the bills" does not impact me since I am not a new customer.  In fact, since it was terrible launch how many customers needlessly paid hundreds of dollars? Especially since you are fundamentally changing the way Logos will work, i.e. only Gold level receives full functionality, and without reading this post in the forum you may have duped many unsuspecting customers out of needed funds.  One more bad launch like this and it could really cost you, and that would be a shame. But I still haven't decided to stay with you, again I wait for the crossgrade, and if I am not impressed, I am moving on to a company that has not lost sight of the most important thing, the customer.

Posts 2279
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2012 8:19 AM

Scott Pixler:
I had to buy it again (still with Zondervan) under the name Pradis 5.1. Now I am unable to use it with my newer computer and although I have already bought it twice, Logos tells me that to use it with my Logos Library, I must buy it a THIRD time. This is not right. I'm just sayin'...

1. I can read EBC in Pradis 5.1 and Pradis 6.0 running under Win7 64 bit. I don't know what newer computer you have that won't run it

2. What obligation does Logos have to give you a product just because Zondervan won't support their own product any more?

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 2279
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2012 8:26 AM

Larry Sterling Jr.:
I should not have to wait.  It all should have been launched at the same time

I believe Bob has already explained that Server traffic and Logos's customer support and sales teams were incapable of handling all this activity at once. Imagine 70,000 people all leaving a stadium at once. Each fan believes he has a right to go to his car and drive straight to the exit, but the stadium staff and availability of traffic lanes means some people will have to wait longer than they want. In order to avoid road rage in the parking lot, they have chosen a staggered release.

It would have been impractical to buy new servers and hire/train more staff for a 3-4 week release of a new product.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2012 9:51 AM

David ... I didn't know that. I always wondered what all the cars did the minute the event was over.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 24
Jeff O'Neal | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2012 9:56 AM

David Thomas:  Imagine 70,000 people all leaving a stadium at once...

I hope you do not bend your hermenuetics around your own worldly ideas the way you analogized this one.  What Logos did was more like making 70,000 people think they had to buy season tickets to be able to leave the stadium then back off to saying they would let those who bought season tickets leave and at some point, they would decide when and how the others could leave -- maybe in a week or two.  

"For if a man wearing a gold ring and fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, 3 and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “You sit here in a good place,” while you say to the poor man, “You stand over there,” or, “Sit down at my feet,” have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?" 

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. 2001 (Jas 2:2–4). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

I have it from a top man that Logos does aspire to adhere to Biblical principles while they also desire to righteously pay bills.  They have conceded this was not the best job of marketing they could have done, so we need to forgive and move on -- lesson learned for all concerned.  It will not help folks to move on though, if you try to paint this as done properly and anybody to who says otherwise is wrong.

Posts 121
ManilaDave | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2012 10:02 AM

I wonder if many of us are not losing perspective over this issue, like I did? Richard Rohr, in an interesting lecture, pointed out that success has very little to teach us after the age of about 35. We need success up to that point for reasons of self-esteem, building confidence in our abilities, etc., but after age 35 he claims that we have more to learn from failure than from success. If failure and mistakes provide one of the most fertile grounds for learning then we can have nothing but confidence that customer service from Logos will go from strength to strength in the future. 

What lasting damage has Logos done to us that is beyond forgiveness? Do we not still possess the best Bible software on the planet with the prospect of a free upgrade to make it even better? What have we lost? We still have the software we were so pleased with a few short weeks ago. We can still continue our ministries and our study unhindered. We've suffered a blow to our pride and a sting to our sense of self-importance as loyal customers. Maybe we needed that to reveal ourselves to ourselves and make us better followers of the crucified One? If so, then the mistakes that Bob acknowledged he made, (and apologized for), in launching L5 in the way he did, while placing us at a temporal disadvantage, but only in so far as the L5 upgrade is concerned, have done us ultimate (spiritual) good. 

Is it possible to re-conceive our relationship with Logos on more than a business / customer basis? Could we not, rather, in some way see ourselves in fellowship with each other in the body of Christ? Can we see Logos in service to us providing us incredible tools for ministry and study which enable us to do our preparatory work more efficiently and effectively giving us more time for the other demands in our lives than we would otherwise have? Can we see ourselves in service to Logos, feeding back into Logos our experiences, needs and, yes, dissatisfactions, hurts and concerns to enable them to serve us better? And could it be with a spirit of forbearance and love in which we are prepared to carry each others burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ? 

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