Official: Minimum Crossgrade and free engine download are coming!

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This post has 330 Replies | 36 Followers

Posts 127
Robert I | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 12 2012 8:50 PM

Technology does move on and I have taken the offer to get my refund for the product that I am still in my payment period for.  I will see what happens with Logos and maybe come back after it has moved on some more.  I have a bad taste in my mouth from investing such a large sum of money in a product has morphed before I could even realize what was in version 4.  I appreciate progress, I do.  I just think the sized packages are too prohibitive for me.  I wish you all the best and hope you enjoy it.  I may revisit this at some other point down the road.  I am content with the other software that I invested a bit of money into and I can buy the specific volumes I had hoped Logos would eventually offer (and may down the road).  They honestly do a good job and I would say they set the standard.  There is no doubt about that.

I am encouraged and appreciate their willingness to refund my money and understand my frustration.  That I have to admit is stellar and outstanding.

Remaining in Him (1 John 2:28), Robert

Mac Book Pro, Windows 7 Professional, iPhone 4S, iPad 1

Posts 18
Bruce Cullom | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 12 2012 11:17 PM

Last week I upgraded from Scholars 4 (with over $5,000 worth of additional books) to Silver 5. It cost me a little over $400. I did not particularly want all of the books that came with Silver 5 even at the discounted prices (there were a few useful commentaries, but I had already purchased better ones). What I did want was the Logos 5 Framework and the new Data Sets.

I purchased Silver 5 knowing that it lacked the Bible Sense Lexicon Data Set, which I really wanted. At the time, however, the Logos Base Package comparison site was advertising it as an add-on for $19.95. Great! But when I tried to purchase it, I was told it was NOT available as an add-on but might be available sometime in the future (it would have cost me another $500 to move up to Gold 5 to get it, which was out of the question). (Logos has since removed the $19.95 price from their comparison chart.)

Then, I found out that sometime in the near future Logos will be offering a cross-grade to the version 5 Framework for free (surely lacking the Data Set I wanted), a minimal cross-grade for under $100 (also presumably lacking the Data Set I wanted), but also a higher value up-grade for "somewhat over $100" most likely having all of the new Data Sets. It then occurred to me that Logos "might not" make the Bible Sense Data Set available separately at all, but only as part of the highest value up-grade (meaning I would have to spend "somewhat more" than another $100 just for that feature).

Today I called Logos customer service and asked if they had (now) determined if they were going make the Bible Sense Data Set available as a single add-on, or, if I was going to have to go to the more than $100 up-grade to get it. The customer service person was unable to answer my question as this had not been finalized.

So I posed this question: If it turns out that I will only be able to get the Bible Sense Data Set by spending more than an additional $100 on the higher value upgrade, I would rather return the Logos 5 Silver version and simply purchase the higher value Logos 5 Framework and Data Sets (and forego the additional books contained in Silver 5). The customer service person told me they would let me do that, should I want to, if the Data Set I wanted was not going to be made available as a separate add-on. She said, "we will take care of you."

I can't ask for more than that. I have been with Logos for about 16 years (ever since Version 1.6) and Bob has always treated me in a manner I consider fair.

I think the issue is this: For those who have been with Logos more than a decade and have *already* purchased the resources they really wanted/needed, Logos greatly underestimated the number of long-time customers who didn't want the additional resources irrespective of the strongly discounted pricing. They simply wanted to be able to purchase the new Framework and Data Sets and keep adding just the books/resources that *they* deem helpful to them.

But I strongly believe Bob will make this right. As for me, I'm sticking with Logos and Bob.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 13 2012 3:41 AM

Bruce Cullom:
So I posed this question: If it turns out that I will only be able to get the Bible Sense Data Set by spending more than an additional $100 on the higher value upgrade, I would rather return the Logos 5 Silver version and simply purchase the higher value Logos 5 Framework and Data Sets (and forego the additional books contained in Silver 5). The customer service person told me they would let me do that, should I want to, if the Data Set I wanted was not going to be made available as a separate add-on. She said, "we will take care of you."

As you have said, Logos is a good company and makes a superb product. However, Logos seems to have a problem with basic communication skills. Phil Gons has stated—don't remember if it was this thread or another—that the crossgrade price would take into consideration what you already own. Thus, for you to obtain the Bible Sense Lexicon from L5 Silver would only cost the value of that one data set.

Apparently, Logos' communications problems are not all external.

Posts 24
Jeff O'Neal | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 13 2012 5:13 AM

Another great post, Naveen.  And very fitting Bible references.  Another passage that spoke to my sinful heart in this matter is James 4.  Our feedback is important to Logos or they would not host this blog and monitor and respond, all the way to the top brass of Logos.  On the other side of the coin, it seems that Logos is similarly doing soul-searching of their own.  Your point that all of this should comport with the Word of God is excellent!

In both conversations I have had with Logos reps, they have made a point of the multitude who are happily upgrading their base packages and the relative few who, like me, are whining.  Yet they are indicating they will respond to the concerns and desires of the few in a positive way -- it is just not their priority at the moment.

SDG,

Jeff

 

Posts 24
Jeff O'Neal | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 13 2012 5:41 AM

You make a good counterpoint, Jeffrey.  Two passages come to mind as I was formulating a similar point:

  "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God."  (Col 3:16 ESV)

Please read 1 Thess 5:14  and compare root words in your Logos Interlinear before you try to play down the impact and import of the word, "admonish".

"He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous 

      are both alike an abomination to the LORD." (Pr 17:15 ESV)

 

 

 

Posts 10212
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 13 2012 6:53 AM

Jeff ... what a pleasant morning. Frost during our early walk in the canyon. And your comment.

"In both conversations I have had with Logos reps, they have made a point of the multitude who are happily upgrading their base packages and the relative few who, like me, are whining. "

If I'm not mistaken, that quote has to be the best one I've read in the years I've been on the forums. (I used to have a previous best quote, but this one is even better!).


Posts 103
Lonnie Ritchie | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 13 2012 7:30 AM

Bob, thanks for the clarification.  I'm sure none of uswill fuss about Logos making money.  We understand you have to to stay in business and keep us in touch with the cutting edge of electronic Bible study.  (A necessity for you and a blessing for us.)  Knowing that Logos has been a business of long-standing integrity and honesty put us in somewhat of a quandry trying to figure out exactly what was going on with Logos 5.  It's not that we felt you were intentinally cheating us; we just felt like you were neglecting us loyal and longtime customers.

I (we) anxiously await the soon-coming (we hope it won't be too long) free upgrade to Logos 5.  Thanks again for all you and Logos do to help us be better Bible students.  Peace to all.

L. Ritchie

Posts 99
Brian Kempson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 13 2012 12:41 PM

Thanks for the information.

What I want to be able to do is purchase ALL (not most) of Logos 5 new features/data sets without purchasing any new books - unless they are necesary for the new functionality.

None of the books in the L5 Gold upgrade seemed of much value - and hardly any were 'New to me'.

So, will ALL of the new features be available in a minimum crossgrade or should I purchase the Gold upgrade  now to ensure that I do have them.

Since I have purchased lots of books for L4, the current cost of Gold upgrade to me is not bad ($272.00) -  so minimal crossgrade would obviously need to be significantly less.

Pining (patiently?) for Logos 5 so I would appreciate a definitive answer plus more a precise time for availability of minimal crossgrade. Would you recommend sticking with Gold upgrade?

Many thanks

B

Posts 1434
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 13 2012 12:54 PM

21,000 reviews for this post. Isn't it time to release a minimum crossgrade Wink

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 24
Jeff O'Neal | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 14 2012 1:55 AM

Thanks for the praise, DMB.  That means a lot.  To God be the glory and to us be the giggles.  

If I had any clue of how my comment might have stacked up, I would have probably replaced "whining" with an expression I learned from my Ranger Instructor, "sniveling like a rat eating onions". Geeked

SDG,

Jeff

 

Posts 3056
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 6:09 AM

Slava Novik:

21,000 reviews for this post. Isn't it time to release a minimum crossgrade Wink

Winner! Yes

Teacher, Ministry Leader, Student, Author, Husband

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Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 7:51 AM

Kempson, considering that You have everything You want from L5 Gold, I would recommend You the Big Crossgrade if You want full functionality and datasets. And to not upgrade nor downgrade at all. There are two different crossgrades comming, one bigger with full functionality and datasets, and one smaller.
The dynamic pricing applies to crossgrades too, Your price will be discounted.

Brian Kempson:
Would you recommend sticking with Gold upgrade?

Aply!
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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 8:00 AM

Unix:

Kempson, considering that You have everything You want from L5 Gold, I would recommend You the Big Crossgrade if You want full functionality and datasets. And to not upgrade nor downgrade at all. There are two different crossgrades comming, one bigger with full functionality and datasets, and one smaller.
The dynamic pricing applies to crossgrades too, Your price will be discounted.

Brian Kempson:
Would you recommend sticking with Gold upgrade?

Just to add my belief that this is good advice. Yes

Posts 42
Naveen Balakrishnan | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 3:34 PM

Dear Jeffrey,

I wasn't speaking about you in terms of cursing.  Questioning for the purpose of getting an answer is a good thing.  Motivation or attitude behind it is key.  I am not saying it is wrong to question.  Acrimony in any form for the sake of it among believers is a dangerous thing as Hebrews 12:15, "lest a root of bitterness spring from within and many be defiled."  He that sows discord among brethren (cf. Proverbs 6:16-19) is an abomination to the LORD.

 

We are using Logos 4 and we do expect to be treated fairly for the price we have paid.  Logos has done a great job in delivering such a product for the price we have paid.  They have come up with a newer product (Logos 5) to this one and so they expect to be reimbursed in that regard for the work which they have done.  The laborer is worthy of his hire afterall.  Where we are placed in this scheme of things is simply a matter of whether we exercise patience.

 

It is possible that they do not have a certain date for Logos 5 crossgrade yet.  It would be foolhardy on their part to put a date and not be able to fulfill it.  I understand the frustrations.  Believe me, I am one among you.  

 

In Christ Alone and for HIs Glory

Revelation 1:3

Posts 10212
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 3:40 PM

Naveen ... you sort of 'timed out'. The crossgrade went live while you were typing!


Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 4:08 PM

Well, I am an official user of L5 :) minimal cross grade purchased!

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 397
T Gerold Castle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 4:47 PM

Yup... I purchased too. :)

In HIS Eternal Service,
Tom Castle
**If we will do God's work, in God's way, at God's time, with God's power, we shall have God's blessings!!**

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 6:00 PM

Tom Castle:

Yup... I purchased too. :)

I am first going to wait for the free engine to see if I am going cross-grade to L5.

Posts 397
T Gerold Castle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 6:27 PM

LOL, Tom.

In HIS Eternal Service,
Tom Castle
**If we will do God's work, in God's way, at God's time, with God's power, we shall have God's blessings!!**

Posts 2
Rickey Hargrave | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 6:53 PM

Shame I did not know this before I upgraded to Diamond.  Many of the books in Diamond I already had.  Now, I'm making a car payment each month for language books I don't need or use, for other sets I did not choose.   I would have gladly paid 250 for an engine upgrade and would have chosen quite different product for the money I am spending.

 

Rickey

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