Too easy to create or wipe out a collection by mistake

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009 11:31 PM

There is no requirement to save or confirm changes to an existing collection when you edit a collection. In fact it's kind of spooky how easily they get created. I've created several by accident when I was just poking around trying to learn the feature and didn't realize I'd left these scattered sandbox collections around. It's easy enough to delete them, I know, but I expect to have to save it before it actually gets created. I guess this is an aspect of L4 I haven't gotten used to yet, because everything else user-generated works that way too. Perhaps most users find that easier to use and they like it?

But the danger of this approach is that it's also too easy to accidentally obliterate a collection you'd set up, if you think that by typing in a new name and a new rule you will create a new collection. You can't just go to your already open Collections tab and start creating a new one just like that. You actually have to click New first to get a new "Unnamed Collection" and then you can begin to type a new name and rule.

Which is worse? Having to save after setting up your collection (and of course being reminded to do so if you try to close the collection before saving it, the way Windows apps have worked forever), or having garbage collections show up unexpectedly ("Unnamed Collection (2)" and "Unnamed Collection (3)") and being able to accidentally overwrite an existing collection too easily with no warning?

Is this an issue that only an experienced geek would ever run into? Sometimes I need a reality check!

Posts 197
Valerie Pobog | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 25 2009 11:38 PM

I found this odd too. I totally expect to be prompted after creating the collection. Feels incomplete.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 2:32 AM

Rosie Perera:
Is this an issue that only an experienced geek would ever run into? Sometimes I need a reality check!

Yes! I nearly wiped a Collection or two that way and accumulated a few UnNamed ones. The objects on the Files menu also work the same way and I did lose a Syntax Search!

I think I'm in the groove now, as I haven't returned to those errant ways.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 687
Jon | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 3:06 AM

You're right Rosie, there's no logical reason to me for it to open up to the first collection in the list, instead it should open up to a new collection... And rather than having Unnamed Collection as the default name, it should stay as an empty field until you give it a name, so that it is only saved once you've chosen to give it a name. (and I guess you'd need a prompt if you were closing it before you'd named it).

 

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 3:16 AM

Jon Rumble:
You're right Rosie, there's no logical reason to me for it to open up to the first collection in the list, instead it should open up to a new collection... And rather than having Unnamed Collection as the default name, it should stay as an empty field until you give it a name, so that it is only saved once you've chosen to give it a name. (and I guess you'd need a prompt if you were closing it before you'd named it).

Jon,

I have to agree 100%...this was discussed during the beta plenty of times....it seems dumb that this behavior would be the default..

 

 

Robert Pavich

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 3:51 AM

Rosie Perera:
There is no requirement to save or confirm changes to an existing collection when you edit a collection. I

This needs to be fixed. Add my vote to the chorus. I just found 3 identical collections named "Favorite Commentaries". The same problem exists with layouts and probably with every other user-generated function. Let me do some of my own thinking.

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 3:57 AM

Agreed. I would also like to be able to "lock/unlock" the collection editor. Locking would collapse the rule, naming, and exception fields and prevent manipulating the contents of the collection. You could also call it "edit mode". Whenever you open the collection editor it is in viewing mode and you have to select "edit mode" to create or change a collection.

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Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 4:00 AM

Add my vote for what it is worth

Posts 2745
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 4:06 AM

Philip Spitzer:

Agreed. I would also like to be able to "lock/unlock" the collection editor. Locking would collapse the rule, naming, and exception fields and prevent manipulating the contents of the collection. You could also call it "edit mode". Whenever you open the collection editor it is in viewing mode and you have to select "edit mode" to create or change a collection.

I think that is what would solve the problem. I suggested that already in the Beta days. I don't like the too easy way to change the rule or whatever in the existing collection. Also, when I just open the collection to browse the resources, I don't need half of the screen space covered by the tools needed for the editing of the collection.

Bohuslav

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 6:27 AM

You're obviously not alone Rosie.  I've deleted a few collections on accident. 

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 12:27 PM

Jon Rumble:
rather than having Unnamed Collection as the default name, it should stay as an empty field until you give it a name,

Sorry to disagree on this point, but I have to admit that I would have lost work several times if I didn't know to find it under "unnamed" - collections should work like the other resources in this regard.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 19333
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 8:22 AM

MJ. Smith:

Jon Rumble:
rather than having Unnamed Collection as the default name, it should stay as an empty field until you give it a name,

Sorry to disagree on this point, but I have to admit that I would have lost work several times if I didn't know to find it under "unnamed" - collections should work like the other resources in this regard.

I think the point all of us have been making is that there wouldn't need to be any "Unnamed" collections (or any other resources) if these features worked like sensible Windows/Mac features which all seasoned users of both platforms have become familar with, because you'd be asked to give it a name before leaving the screen where you created it. Yes, "Unnamed" could be proposed as the default if you like, but at least you'd have to think about it, so you wouldn't go off scratching your head if you were looking for the collection (or handout or whatever) that you'd created. It's just silly to have all these dummy ones being left scattered around when the user didn't really intend to create them but was just exploring the UI in order to learn it. Windows/Mac penetration into the world is so high now that I don't expect Logos realistically thinks it's going to be growing its user base primarily among people who have never used a GUI before, so inventing a new way for a windows-like feature to behave which is different from the way all other similar features behave is going to confuse people more than it's going to help them.

Alas, it's probably too late to change now because they didn't listen to people complaining about it during the beta, but let me add one more emphatic cry that this was a poor decision, just in case anyone's listening... (hello -- lo -- lo -- lo?) Ah, echos only, I see... Smile

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 8:30 AM

If not a save dialog like is standard on most programs, then at least the ability for the program to warn you that you are about to delete a document.

Posts 28
Karen Campbell | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 8:58 AM

Rosie Perera:
I expect to have to save it before it actually gets created

 

Yes +1

Posts 24
Larry Schmid | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 12:26 PM

Philip Spitzer:

Agreed. I would also like to be able to "lock/unlock" the collection editor. Locking would collapse the rule, naming, and exception fields and prevent manipulating the contents of the collection. You could also call it "edit mode". Whenever you open the collection editor it is in viewing mode and you have to select "edit mode" to create or change a collection.

This is an excellent idea.  Not only would this protect the existing collections but also replace a handy L3 feature missing in L4.  There are times I want to browse a collection.  In L3, I'd pop open the library and select the collection and off I go.  A 'VIew' mode mode would serve both these ends.

AKA WillyBurger

Posts 726
Chris Elford | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 12:47 PM

+1 to Rosie's and Phil's suggestions here

Chris

Posts 273
Ken Avery | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 12:59 PM

Agree - I have messed this up also Yes

Posts 386
Clinton Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 2:37 PM

Rosie Perera:
being able to accidentally overwrite an existing collection too easily with no warning?

This is the issue I have faced. I think either a way to stop the overwrite or undo the changes is needed (or both).

Posts 46
Peter Bongers | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 3:44 PM

Have to agree with the prevailing sentiment on this. Please fix this!Huh?

Just because something is easier to do, doesn't mean it's desirable to do!Surprise

Posts 1666
SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2009 7:52 AM

Once they have been created and saved they should be allowed to safely live in their drawer/drop down until right clicked on and deleted.

I too have "lost" more than one - one "wrong" minor change as you try to understand or experiment with this esoteric syntax and you are...(fill in your own word).

With all due respect to the "keeners" here - these things (once you get past the"easy" one-choice collections) are NOT intuitive. Please do not make it harder by having them "destroy" themselves. "Saved" should mean just that, "saved." (No theological flame wars, please).

Steve

Regards, SteveF

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