Thoughts On the Introduction of L5

Page 1 of 1 (14 items)
This post has 13 Replies | 0 Followers

Posts 31
Andrew | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Nov 6 2012 6:21 AM

 

I wanted to express my experience and thoughts with the introduction of L5.  I upgraded from L4 Silver to L5 Gold last Friday and realized that L5 Gold does not have NIGTC. My fault, I should have looked over the resources better. I didn’t realize how much libraries get changed even though the new Logos 5 packages have the some of the same names as the L4 packages.  Well I thought I could kill two birds with one stone and return the L5 Gold and upgrade to the L4 platinum (for roughly the same price) and get the Pillar Commentaries which I was wanting to grab in the future through L4 Platinum.  Not so, I spoke with two sales reps and both told me they cannot do that for me, even after telling them I would upgrade to L5 after the upgrade to L4 Platinum.

I don’t understand why Logos did not advertise L5 or show the new resources it is going to have?   Why would Logos pull out the two of the most popular commentaries? Simple, Logos can sell them for more individually and I really don’t have a problem with this, makes business sense.  What I don’t like is how secretive this change occurred and the unwillingness to help out previous customers. I’m assuming there are others like me who wanted to upgrade to L4 Platinum, but now can’t because of how abruptly the packages were changed.  New customers won’t know the difference but existing customers do. 

I really do like Logos and understand they are a business (this is not a bad thing),  simply felt devalued as an existing customer from how I perceived everything was handled.  I’m not trying to complain, (still very thankful for my purchase!) I just want the Logos staff to understand how one of their customers felt through this experience and maybe learn from it going into the future.

If I'm off my rocker let me know :)

 

Posts 1993
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 6:32 AM

Andrew:
Not so, I spoke with two sales reps and both told me they cannot do that for me, even after telling them I would upgrade to L5 after the upgrade to L4 Platinum.

See this thread: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58483.aspx .

It sounds like the sales reps could have done a better job explaining additional options. And certainly the web site didn't make those options so clear that a thread like the one linked wasn't needed. ;)

Donnie

 

Posts 5552
Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 6:32 AM

Andrew

I am surprised to hear this.

Try again - explain what you would like to do - if you get the same response tell them you wish to return the L5 gold citing the 30 day money back guarantee - if find the mind is not changed - take the money - then add whichever package you want.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 1875
Paul-C | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 6:41 AM

Andrew:

Why would Logos pull out the two of the most popular commentaries? 

I think I read on the forums that this was because the publishers of PNTC and NIGTC required Logos to remove them from base packages.  A similar thing happened a while ago when Baker required Logos to remove BECNT and BNTC from certain base packages ( - sadly before I bought Platinum...)  I would've thought Logos would like to have kept these resources in their base packages because it makes the base packages far more attractive to would be buyers.

Posts 4768
RIP
Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 6:44 AM

Andrew:
I don’t understand why Logos did not advertise L5 or show the new resources it is going to have?

The L5 Base package contents were not secret. There was much discussion about them from day 1 in the forums. This page on the Logos website went up as soon as they were ready to release L5 http://www.logos.com/upgrade

Andrew:
Why would Logos pull out the two of the most popular commentaries? Simple, Logos can sell them for more individually and I really don’t have a problem with this, makes business sense.

Many (maybe even most, I don't know) of the package changes were required by the publishers of those resources. Logos had no choice.

There has been much discussion since Friday about the decision to use the same package names in this roll out. I suspect that in hindsight they would probably do something different.

You're right Logos is a good company with a great product.

 

Posts 44
Ben Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 6:54 AM

Andrew:
I wanted to express my experience and thoughts with the introduction of L5.  I upgraded from L4 Silver to L5 Gold last Friday and realized that L5 Gold does not have NIGTC. My fault, I should have looked over the resources better. I didn’t realize how much libraries get changed even though the new Logos 5 packages have the some of the same names as the L4 packages.  Well I thought I could kill two birds with one stone and return the L5 Gold and upgrade to the L4 platinum (for roughly the same price) and get the Pillar Commentaries which I was wanting to grab in the future through L4 Platinum.  Not so, I spoke with two sales reps and both told me they cannot do that for me, even after telling them I would upgrade to L5 after the upgrade to L4 Platinum.

First, use your 30-day refund on L5 Gold. Then wait for a while to see the crossgrade options. Finally, research the cheapest way to get L5 with NIGTC and whatever else you need. Regarding the packages, I do believe Logos put up a list on their website of all resources included in each package the same day that L5 was released.

Ben

Posts 31
Andrew | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 6:55 AM

Fredc:

Andrew:
I don’t understand why Logos did not advertise L5 or show the new resources it is going to have?

The L5 Base package contents were not secret. There was much discussion about them from day 1 in the forums. This page on the Logos website went up as soon as they were ready to release L5 http://www.logos.com/upgrade

Andrew:
Why would Logos pull out the two of the most popular commentaries? Simple, Logos can sell them for more individually and I really don’t have a problem with this, makes business sense.

Many (maybe even most, I don't know) of the package changes were required by the publishers of those resources. Logos had no choice.

There has been much discussion since Friday about the decision to use the same package names in this roll out. I suspect that in hindsight they would probably do something different.

You're right Logos is a good company with a great product.

 

 

I meant they were kept secret before the release of L5, or am I incorrect about this?

 

Paul-C:

Andrew:

Why would Logos pull out the two of the most popular commentaries? 

I think I read on the forums that this was because the publishers of PNTC and NIGTC required Logos to remove them from base packages.  A similar thing happened a while ago when Baker required Logos to remove BECNT and BNTC from certain base packages ( - sadly before I bought Platinum...)  I would've thought Logos would like to have kept these resources in their base packages because it makes the base packages far more attractive to would be buyers.

 

 

I didn't realize it was per publishers request that these items be removed.  Makes sense to me now, so thanks for the clarification Paul and Fred!

Posts 31
Andrew | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 6:57 AM

Ben Anderson:

Andrew:
I wanted to express my experience and thoughts with the introduction of L5.  I upgraded from L4 Silver to L5 Gold last Friday and realized that L5 Gold does not have NIGTC. My fault, I should have looked over the resources better. I didn’t realize how much libraries get changed even though the new Logos 5 packages have the some of the same names as the L4 packages.  Well I thought I could kill two birds with one stone and return the L5 Gold and upgrade to the L4 platinum (for roughly the same price) and get the Pillar Commentaries which I was wanting to grab in the future through L4 Platinum.  Not so, I spoke with two sales reps and both told me they cannot do that for me, even after telling them I would upgrade to L5 after the upgrade to L4 Platinum.

First, use your 30-day refund on L5 Gold. Then wait for a while to see the crossgrade options. Finally, research the cheapest way to get L5 with NIGTC and whatever else you need. Regarding the packages, I do believe Logos put up a list on their website of all resources included in each package the same day that L5 was released.

Ben


 

Sorry I don't think i was clear in my OP. I meant I wished they had put up the package items before L5 was released and L4 packages were gone.

Posts 10845
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 7:04 AM

Andrew:
 Why would Logos pull out the two of the most popular commentaries? Simple, Logos can sell them for more individually

Have you considered the possibility that these were decisions from the publishers not from Logos? Now, I dod not have inside information, but that must be considered as an explanation. Doubt very much that Logos will tell us, either way.

Andrew:
What I don’t like is how secretive this change occurred

A practice not that uncommon with software publishers. Announce a coming upgrade and kill present sales; some would consider that poor business practices.

Andrew:
 unwillingness to help out previous customers.

Have never known Logos to be unwilling to help any customer. But expecting them to sell discontinued products is a bit of a stretch.

Andrew:
I’m not trying to complain, (still very thankful for my purchase!) I just want the Logos staff to understand how one of their customers felt through this experience and maybe learn from it going into the future.

That is a perfectly acceptable thing t o do, and I appreciate the gracious way you expressed your concerns.

Andrew:
If I'm off my rocker let me know

No, I don't think you are off your rocker. Just thought you might need a different viewpoint Geeked

Posts 1416
Wes Saad | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 7:04 AM

Andrew:
Why would Logos pull out the two of the most popular commentaries?

Because they have to negotiate with publishers and in this case the publishers apparently didn't want to be included in base packages.

As Logos has noted before, they can sell lots more through the (relatively) cheaper base packages (where you get lots more books for a cheaper price than buying individually) than they do in the sets. They want books in these packages. But when a publisher doesn't agree to having their resources in a package, Logos has to change things. I think this is likely the reason so much changed in the base packages: contract renegotiations with the publishers.

And there's nothing secretive in this. They advertise the products they offer.

Posts 1416
Wes Saad | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 7:05 AM

Aaand most of what I said had already been said! :) Once again, I chair the Department of Redundancy Department.

Posts 31
Andrew | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 7:47 AM

Jack Caviness:

Andrew:
 Why would Logos pull out the two of the most popular commentaries? Simple, Logos can sell them for more individually

Have you considered the possibility that these were decisions from the publishers not from Logos? Now, I dod not have inside information, but that must be considered as an explanation. Doubt very much that Logos will tell us, either way.

Andrew:
What I don’t like is how secretive this change occurred

A practice not that uncommon with software publishers. Announce a coming upgrade and kill present sales; some would consider that poor business practices.

Andrew:
 unwillingness to help out previous customers.

Have never known Logos to be unwilling to help any customer. But expecting them to sell discontinued products is a bit of a stretch.

Andrew:
I’m not trying to complain, (still very thankful for my purchase!) I just want the Logos staff to understand how one of their customers felt through this experience and maybe learn from it going into the future.

That is a perfectly acceptable thing t o do, and I appreciate the gracious way you expressed your concerns.

Andrew:
If I'm off my rocker let me know

No, I don't think you are off your rocker. Just thought you might need a different viewpoint Geeked

 

Thanks for you input Jack. Getting a different perspective was part of the reason I posted this because I sometimes see things from a narrow point of view.

Posts 1359
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 7:53 AM

Chris Roberts:

Aaand most of what I said had already been said! :) Once again, I chair the Department of Redundancy Department.

Big SmileBig Smile

Posts 31
Andrew | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 8:25 AM

 

Chris Roberts:

Aaand most of what I said had already been said! :) Once again, I chair the Department of Redundancy Department.

 

 

Big Smile Still appreciate the input. I really didn't think about the publisher's involvement. My problem with the whole "secret" aspect of this was that Logos knew the L4 packages were changing in L5 and didn't show the customers until L5 was released. As I said before, I'm not trying to complain, just wanted to express my thoughts from my perspective (though changed now somewhat!).

Page 1 of 1 (14 items) | RSS