Increasingly less 5-star resources in base packages?

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Posts 34
Andrew Stewart | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Nov 7 2012 9:59 AM

Does it seem like there are less and less truly top-notch 5-star resources in the various (especially Platinum and higher) base packages with each release?

In the transition from LE > KF, Baker asked Logos to remove some (all?) of their resources, so the following were dropped from the base packages:

  • LE Gold+: The Apostolic Fathers: Greek Texts and English Translations 
  • LE Platinum+: Baker Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament (BECNT) (8 Vols.)
  • LE Plantinum+: Baker Encyclopedia of Psychology and Counseling, 2nd ed.

 

Now with the move from LG to IH with the Logos 5 release, the following resources were dropped*:

  • LG Platinum+: The New International Greek Testament Commentary (NIGTC) (13 vols.)
  • LG Platinum+: Pillar New Testament Commentary (10 vols.)
  • LG Portfolio+: International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, rev. ed. (ISBE 1979-1995) (4 vols.)
  • LG Gold+: Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament (EDNT) (3 vols.)
    • Theological Lexicon of the New Testament (TLNT) (3 vols.) AND Theological Lexicon of the Old Testament (TLOT) (3 vols.) are now in Logos 5 (IH) Gold+ (suitable replacement?)
  • LG Gold+: The Encyclopedia of Christianity: Volumes 1-4

 

To be fair, at some point, Logos added the Lake and Lightfoot editions of the Apostolic Fathers, and then now with Logos 5 (IH) they added back the Baker Encyclopedia of Psychology and Counseling, 2nd ed. to Silver+.

Since LE the loss of the BECNT, Pillar, and NIGTC commentary sets from Platinum is a huge loss.  Are there other resources that you would consider 5-star resources that have been dropped from the base packages?

 

A few nights ago, I was pondering what I would recommend friends and family that might want to start getting into Logos buy in order to get he best value for their money.  I think the Gold base package with NAC is one of Logos' best values, but after that I think I would recommend that someone start looking at buying specific resources and sets (i.e. ABD, wait for a sale on NICOT/NICNT, WBC or the Nelson Bible Reference Bundle, BECNT, etc.).  How would you recommend some approach Logos 5 in order to get the best value for their money?

 

FYI, I'm not trying to start a debate what Logos should have (or should not have) in their base packages, nor am I interested in such a discussion.  How they position their products is up to them and I'm sure they have reasons (from financial and publisher relationship points of view) for why they change up things as they do.  I just wondered how the other users of this forum would suggest a new user approach Logos resources from the perspective of getting the best quality resources for the best value?

I did want to say thank you to Logos for providing these forums as a resource to their customers, and especially allowing people post messages that sometimes don't portray them in the most flattering light.  Overall, I think Logos is a great product and (can be) a good value, too.

 

* Randy W. Sims (Shayne) created this great spreadsheet to help compare the Logos 4 LG base packages to the Logos 5 IH packages:  Chart of Logos 4 & Logos 5 Packages

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 10:14 AM

Hi Andrew

Andrew Stewart:
A few nights ago, I was pondering what I would recommend friends and family that might want to start getting into Logos buy in order to get he best value for their money.  I think the Gold base package with NAC is one of Logos' best values, but after that I think I would recommend that someone start looking at buying specific resources and sets (i.e. ABD, wait for a sale on NICOT/NICNT, WBC or the Nelson Bible Reference Bundle, BECNT, etc.).  How would you recommend some approach Logos 5 in order to get the best value for their money?

Thought it worth pointing out that in addition to purchasing an L5 base package there are various other products available at discounted prices (I believe just when purchased with a base package). These are at https://www.logos.com/topproducts and include some of the titles you reference here

Graham 

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 10:27 AM

Graham ... I click on your Top Products. That took me to the upgrade page. Is it safe to assume the top products/collections are the customize ones? Else I got lost somewhere along the way.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 10:54 AM

Regarding that one:

Andrew Stewart:
In the transition from LE > KF, Baker asked Logos to remove some (all?) of their resources, so the following were dropped from the base packages:

  • LE Gold+: The Apostolic Fathers: Greek Texts and English Translations
... I've written in: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58953/419776.aspx#419776 ... there is a newer edition, and I speculated what the reason could be, and DMB agreed with me.

Personally, I'm actually glad they've dropped some commentary set and some dictionary, theological lexicon and encyclopedia, because I easily have too much of those.
My main use of Logos is Gk, a bit of elementary Latin, reading through commentaries (see http://community.logos.com/forums/p/53958/394409.aspx#394409), and in a very lesser extent reference. When I do searches I mostly just search for the occurences of a passage, but I don't do that every day. I manage VERY WELL without a lot of Bibles. I'm still content using printed Bibles - my need to highlight in them is much smaller than my need to highlight in the commentaries.

So, as You can see, not everyone uses Logos mainly as reference, and therefore this change in the base-packages places them in-between which I think is a desirable development of base-packages.

Aply!
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Andy | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 11:20 AM

Andrew Stewart:
A few nights ago, I was pondering what I would recommend friends and family that might want to start getting into Logos buy in order to get he best value for their money.  I think the Gold base package with NAC is one of Logos' best values, but after that I think I would recommend that someone start looking at buying specific resources and sets (i.e. ABD, wait for a sale on NICOT/NICNT, WBC or the Nelson Bible Reference Bundle, BECNT, etc.).  How would you recommend some approach Logos 5 in order to get the best value for their money?

To be honest with you, I think this is a good strategy.

I have upgrade a couple of levels as a result of the release of L5 and the revamped contents are to my benefit on this occasion. I was fortunate to purchase Gold at L3 and then upgraded to Platinum on release of L4. Many of the resources in my L5 package of choice were already on my wishlist.

However, I agree that, for the newcomer, some of the higher packages are poorer for the loss of Pillar, BECNT, NIGTC.

I would advise that those contemplating purchasing a Logos package for the first time carefully consider their interests, needs and means and then select a package accordingly. It may well prove better value to purchase a lower package and then add carefully selected resources to ensure one obtains maximum value.

Obviously, one should note that the full features only become available at Gold and above.

Posts 21
Brian Durbin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 11:36 AM

While L5 did lose some great resources (I am SO glad I won't be losing my BECNT, NIGTC, and Pillar products!) and ITC from Portfolio, they picked up some nice resources as well: 

- R. Kent Hugh's Preaching the Word commentary series, one of my favorites to consult for preaching. 

- Wesleyan Bible Commentary Series (I'm unfamiliar with this one, even though I own it....)

- Exegetical Summary Series

- Baker New Testament Commentaries were picked back up (less "scholarly" than the BECNT)

- Reading the New Testament Commentaries (12 vols)

So it seems that the commentary packages as a whole are less "technical" and "grammatical" than in the past (so less beneficial for a student/professor), but more beneficial for a preaching/teaching pastor and lay teacher. 

Unfortunately, through past base packages, Christmas Library Builders, and the 2010 Master Collection, I already own all the resources they've just added back in, so there is very little incentive for me to upgrade. 

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 11:42 AM

Hi DMB

DMB:
I click on your Top Products. That took me to the upgrade page

Sorry, when I clicked on it it took me straight to the products page - but I had an upgrade package selected. Maybe that was the difference.

DMB:
Is it safe to assume the top products/collections are the customize ones?

Yes, that's right

Graham 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 11:51 AM

Andrew Stewart:
 I just wondered how the other users of this forum would suggest a new user approach Logos resources from the perspective of getting the best quality resources for the best value?

It seems to me that what is 5-star depends upon what a new user is going to us Logos for. My approach is always to first look at what someone has in their library - books and e-books - and what they wish they had. Best value isn't just money it's what one actually uses on a daily basis.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 34
Andrew Stewart | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 12:12 PM

Unix:
My main use of Logos is Gk, a bit of elementary Latin, reading through commentaries...

So, as You can see, not everyone uses Logos mainly as reference, 

Good point.  I don't know any original languages, so beyond the standard ones like BDAG and HALOT, I don't know which resources are real gems, the ones that might be worth the cost of moving up to the next base package level, according to that usage.

 

Brian Durbin:

While L5 did lose some great resources (I am SO glad I won't be losing my BECNT, NIGTC, and Pillar products!) and ITC from Portfolio, they picked up some nice resources as well: 

- R. Kent Hugh's Preaching the Word commentary series, one of my favorites to consult for preaching. 

- Wesleyan Bible Commentary Series (I'm unfamiliar with this one, even though I own it....)

Thanks for pointing out and speaking to the quality/usefulness of the Preaching the Word commentary series; Expository/Pastoral commentaries don't get much attention paid to them.  

Your second item kind-of illustrates my point.  Wink  Although there might be some good content in that Wesleyan series, but I don't know that I have ever heard anyone speak of it like like you do of Preaching the Word or how others do of NICOT/NICNT, WBC, BECNT, Pillar, Tyndale, NIVAC, etc.

 

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 7:27 PM

Brian Durbin:

While L5 did lose some great resources (...) they picked up some nice resources as well: 

- R. Kent Hugh's Preaching the Word commentary series, one of my favorites to consult for preaching. 

- Wesleyan Bible Commentary Series (I'm unfamiliar with this one, even though I own it....)

- Exegetical Summary Series

- Baker New Testament Commentaries were picked back up (less "scholarly" than the BECNT)

- Reading the New Testament Commentaries (12 vols)

And the funny thing is I realized some hours ago that those of you who were on beta and knew about the launch date could have made a pretty accurate guess about what the additions would be. I happened to sort by Last Updated and scroll down to find something, when it suddenly hit me: I recognize these titles! Preaching the Word, Exegetical Summaries, Reading the NT, Lange or Lenski (don't remember which, none of these are resources I've bought individually)... Seems all the big commentary series that were going to be added were updated a week before the launch.Smile

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 9:04 PM

Thanks .... Graham .... appreciate your follow-up!

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 654
David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 9:40 PM

Brian Durbin:
Baker New Testament Commentaries were picked back up (less "scholarly" than the BECNT)

 

You must mean Holman or Black's New Testament Commentary?  I could not find the Baker NT Commentaries in any L5 base packages.

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