Stealth sales?

I am not one to complain about Logos' promotional methods, but this seems to be a bit over the top.

While I'm not that interested in the works of John Darby, I thought it might be helpful to get the free book setting forth his views on Genesis through 2 Chron (If he follows the Jewish order, this would be the entire OT). When I used the Logos home page to access the offer, it ended up showing an upgrade to L5 Silver in addition to the book. If they wish to say "Free book with the purchase of an L5 upgrade", that is their right and I would have no complaint. This, however, is a bit sneaky and unlike what I am used to experiencing with Logos.

BTW: I'm waiting for the free engine and crossgrade since I plan to add only those works I want which doesn't include homiletical material, sermons, counselling and numerous commentaries of no interest to me.

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Erwin Stull, Sr.

Hi George;

When I clicked on the same, it added the book to the cart with $0. No other items were added to the cart. I just checked this out a few moments ago. Logos may have fixed the issue.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/422930#Comment_422930

Hi George;

When I clicked on the same, it added the book to the cart with tiny_mce_marker. No other items were added to the cart. I just checked this out a few moments ago. Logos may have fixed the issue.

Have you already gotten L5? It still adds L5 to my cart.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/422934#Comment_422934

I just went thru the Logos upgrade page making 'one last pass' before deciding on either 'nothing', 'less molassas' or 'gee-whiz-databases'.

I was really surprised at only finding 2 volumes in the whole sequence I might even want; certainly not need. And that should not be a surprise. Like some, my base 'package' was a paltry $350 (back in 2005?). And like many my Logos purchases are $14,000 and change (a sizable portion this last year).

In other words, their marketing equation is built off of 2.5% of my purchasing at Logos from 7 years ago. And a percentage smaller than I pay for Arizona sales tax that I pay on each Logos purchase.

Now, I know. I'm 'greedy'. And I 'get paid too much'. (Both actually true, but that's irrelevent.)

I just don't understand why (hopefully) this week's additional choices were such an over-whelming amount of rocket-science.

And a free book for George, no less.

J. Morris

I am not one to complain about Logos' promotional methods, but this seems to be a bit over the top.

When I used the Logos home page to access the offer, it ended up showing an upgrade to L5 Silver in addition to the book. If they wish to say "Free book with the purchase of an L5 upgrade", that is their right and I would have no complaint. This, however, is a bit sneaky and unlike what I am used to experiencing with Logos.

George, I do not have L5, and was not originally interested in the free book this month, but wanted to see if what occurred to you would happen to me. It did not. I had no mention of L5 on any of my pages going through the process. I expected to, but did not.

Andy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/422934#Comment_422934

Have you already gotten L5? It still adds L5 to my cart.

What happens when you delete L5 from your cart? Is it letting you progress with the order?

I wonder if there is a glitch. I bought a couple of books yesterday and found that I had Portfolio in my cart (I had upgraded a couple of days earlier). I dismissed it at the time assuming that I had done something stupid. I now wonder if there is a problem with the site.

The book definitely was available for free. I picked it up prior to and separately from upgrading to L5.

Erwin Stull, Sr.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/422934#Comment_422934

Have you already gotten L5? It still adds L5 to my cart.

Yes, I already have L5. There may be a difference, but I can't confirm.

tom

I am not one to complain about Logos' promotional methods, but this seems to be a bit over the top.

While I'm not that interested in the works of John Darby, I thought it might be helpful to get the free book setting forth his views on Genesis through 2 Chron (If he follows the Jewish order, this would be the entire OT). When I used the Logos home page to access the offer, it ended up showing an upgrade to L5 Silver in addition to the book. If they wish to say "Free book with the purchase of an L5 upgrade", that is their right and I would have no complaint. This, however, is a bit sneaky and unlike what I am used to experiencing with Logos.

BTW: I'm waiting for the free engine and crossgrade since I plan to add only those works I want which doesn't include homiletical material, sermons, counselling and numerous commentaries of no interest to me.

This is the free book for the month of December. I too am waiting for the free engine/cross-grade, and I was able to get this free book without any issues.

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/422941#Comment_422941

The book definitely was available for free. I picked it up prior to and separately from upgrading to L5.

This was my experience as well.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/422941#Comment_422941

What happens when you delete L5 from your cart? Is it letting you progress with the order?

I didn't think about deleting it. When it appeared in the cart, I simply killed it. It works. I simply don't like having things pushed on me.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/422968#Comment_422968

What happens when you delete L5 from your cart? Is it letting you progress with the order?

I didn't think about deleting it. When it appeared in the cart, I simply killed it. It works. I simply don't like having things pushed on me.

Is it possible that you accidentally put the upgrade order in your cart at some other time while browsing the upgrades?

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/422977#Comment_422977

What happens when you delete L5 from your cart? Is it letting you progress with the order?

I didn't think about deleting it. When it appeared in the cart, I simply killed it. It works. I simply don't like having things pushed on me.

Is it possible that you accidentally put the upgrade order in your cart at some other time while browsing the upgrades?

Positive since I only then thought of getting the book. I have no use for dispensationalism so I really didn't think I would care for Darby, but decided it would be good to have a look at the source.

Alex Scott

The book is free without L5. When I bought another book this week, the L5 upgrade was listed in the orders. You merely have to 'x' it off to remove it and then get your free book

Like you, George, I am waiting for the cross-grade. Most of my interest, like yours, are at the upper end of the resources like language studies etc. To take their recommended upgrade I would have been purchasing a whole list of books that I had already decided, as they came out, that they were of no use or interest to me. That makes no sense at all. I'm trusting that the cross-grade will get us ALL the functionality and not just MOST or some fur is going to fly. Having spent more than $25,000 on Logos over the past decade or so, I am expecting a bit more than MOST.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423001#Comment_423001

Nah ... Alex? They REALLY slide in an L5 upgrade on you?!

Mike Estes - Logos

I am not one to complain about Logos' promotional methods, but this seems to be a bit over the top.

While I'm not that interested in the works of John Darby, I thought it might be helpful to get the free book setting forth his views on Genesis through 2 Chron (If he follows the Jewish order, this would be the entire OT). When I used the Logos home page to access the offer, it ended up showing an upgrade to L5 Silver in addition to the book. If they wish to say "Free book with the purchase of an L5 upgrade", that is their right and I would have no complaint. This, however, is a bit sneaky and unlike what I am used to experiencing with Logos.

BTW: I'm waiting for the free engine and crossgrade since I plan to add only those works I want which doesn't include homiletical material, sermons, counselling and numerous commentaries of no interest to me.

Are you certain your cart was empty before you added it? I just tried and I was unable to reproduce the issue of L5 being added to my cart.

If you can remember the steps you took to get it to show up in your cart after adding the free book I would appreciate knowing as this is not a design that I am currently aware of us having. And I will enter a bug to get this addressed and fixed if it does occur.

fgh

I may be wrong, but I suspect I can guess what happened here. Did you by any chance click on the Customize button on the Upgrade page at some point, to see the additional discounts there? Since those offers are only open to people who upgrade, Logos assumes that anyone who clicks on that button wants the selected package, and adds it to the cart -- and there it sits until you either complete the order or delete it. Mystery solved?

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423109#Comment_423109

Are you certain your cart was empty before you added it? I just tried and I was unable to reproduce the issue of L5 being added to my cart.

If you can remember the steps you took to get it to show up in your cart after adding the free book I would appreciate knowing as this is not a design that I am currently aware of us having. And I will enter a bug to get this addressed and fixed if it does occur.

Open Logos home page
Click on "Free Book of the Month"
Click on "Learn More"
Click on "Get Free Book"
It was there

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423162#Comment_423162

I may be wrong, but I suspect I can guess what happened here. Did you by any chance click on the Customize button on the Upgrade page at some point, to see the additional discounts there? Since those offers are only open to people who upgrade, Logos assumes that anyone who clicks on that button wants the selected package, and adds it to the cart -- and there it sits until you either complete the order or delete it. Mystery solved?

Perhaps; I'm not sure.

Richard Wilson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423193#Comment_423193

I just opened my shopping cart, and found an upgrade I had not ordered. I did not order any book, so it has nothing to do with the Free Book of the Month or any other book purchases. But the moment I clicked the Customize button on the Logos 5 Upgrade page, the upgrade was added to the shopping cart. Maybe not a bug, as it should not be possible to get the discounts on the extra items without ordering the base package, but it can certainly create unpleasant surprises. There should be some way of seeing the custom options without being forced to put a package in the shopping cart.

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423250#Comment_423250

There should be some way of seeing the custom options without being forced to put a package in the shopping cart.

[Y]

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/422968#Comment_422968

What happens when you delete L5 from your cart? Is it letting you progress with the order?

I didn't think about deleting it. When it appeared in the cart, I simply killed it. It works. I simply don't like having things pushed on me.

I can't believe I'm about to write this, but IN DEFENSE OF GEORGE [:D], a similar thing just happened to me with another resource. I just ordered a couple of books for a class and when I opened my cart to make my purchase it contained an upgrade to L5 Silver THAT I ALREADY PURCHASED last week. I was able to delete that item and move happily along, but an unobservant shopper may have had to place a call to customer support to fix a problem that was created by their web design.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423365#Comment_423365

Yes, it's a fairly common mistake in web design, typically requiring top-notch coders to avoid it. Putting a major upgrade in peoples' carts without their knowledge.

Got it.

Erwin Stull, Sr.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423393#Comment_423393

FWIW: I have previously upgraded, however, when I click on the customize button and click my package, it does add the L5 package to the cart with $0. I did this just to review the other offers there and have no intention of upgrading again at this time. I agree that it shouldn't be added to the cart at all during this stage, but is not such a big deal. Now, if by chance I don't look at my cart purchases and complete an order blindly, and some large upgrade was on the bill, yes, I would be highly upset and calling in to remove it. But all in all, part of that inconvenience would be my fault, as I should always review my total purchase before submitting the order.

Mark

n (If he follows the Jewish order, this would be the entire OT)

George

I have the entire set and I believe this volume does not cover the whole OT. Another volume covers Ezra to Malachi.

Mike Estes - Logos

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423191#Comment_423191

Open Logos home page

Click on "Free Book of the Month"

Click on "Learn More"

Click on "Get Free Book"

It was there

Thank you for the repro steps George. I was not able to reproduce the the package getting added to the cart along with the free book.

Are you still seeing this happen with the steps above? Making sure that the cart is clear of all items before doing it again. This should not be occurring.

Mike Estes - Logos

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423365#Comment_423365

I can't believe I'm about to write this, but IN DEFENSE OF GEORGE , a similar thing just happened to me with another resource. I just ordered a couple of books for a class and when I opened my cart to make my purchase it contained an upgrade to L5 Silver THAT I ALREADY PURCHASED last week. I was able to delete that item and move happily along, but an unobservant shopper may have had to place a call to customer support to fix a problem that was created by their web design.

I will investigate this. The cart should have been cleared from last week after you purchased it.

And I will add that due to the discount calculator seeing you purchased the item already you are not charged again for it. But having it still in your cart after a purchase and you didn't add it again sounds like a bug to me.

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423438#Comment_423438

Thanks Mike!

Mike Estes - Logos

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423250#Comment_423250

I just opened my shopping cart, and found an upgrade I had not ordered. I did not order any book, so it has nothing to do with the Free Book of the Month or any other book purchases. But the moment I clicked the Customize button on the Logos 5 Upgrade page, the upgrade was added to the shopping cart. Maybe not a bug, as it should not be possible to get the discounts on the extra items without ordering the base package, but it can certainly create unpleasant surprises. There should be some way of seeing the custom options without being forced to put a package in the shopping cart.

This is by design. Due to the discounts you receive for upgrades being different depending on what package you want to upgrade it needs to be in the cart to see the custom deals for that discount rate. In order to see the discounted prices for the items you can add to Customize your order it needs to be in the cart.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423434#Comment_423434

Are you still seeing this happen with the steps above? Making sure that the cart is clear of all items before doing it again. This should not be occurring.

No, since I deleted the update from the cart it has not reappeared.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423445#Comment_423445

Due to the discounts you receive for upgrades being different depending on what package you want to upgrade it needs to be in the cart to see the custom deals for that discount rate.

Mike,

this isn't transparent to the users - neither that "Customize" is an add-on discounted sale (this becomes clear after using the button, but better call it "additional discounts" or "add-on sale" rather than "customize"), nor that the discount is relative to the upgrade itself.

A much better idea than to simply putting the respective package into the cart (which happened to me as well - and I think that this system behavior may explain all of the "stealth sale" examples in this thread) would be to give a message like "these add-on prices apply only if you choose upgrade package XXX and may differ for other packages. Put into cart now? Yes/No"

Mick

Mike Estes - Logos

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423450#Comment_423450

Mike,

this isn't transparent to the users - neither that "Customize" is an add-on discounted sale (this becomes clear after using the button, but better call it "additional discounts" or "add-on sale" rather than "customize"), nor that the discount is relative to the upgrade itself.

A much better idea than to simply putting the respective package into the cart (which happened to me as well - and I think that this system behavior may explain all of the "stealth sale" examples in this thread) would be to give a message like "these add-on prices apply only if you choose upgrade package XXX and may differ for other packages. Put into cart now? Yes/No"

Mick

Thank you Mick. I will bring this up as a suggestion as you're right, the Customize button doesn't really give you any context as to what is going to happen nor is it clear what Customize even means.

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423445#Comment_423445

This is by design. Due to the discounts you receive for upgrades being different depending on what package you want to upgrade it needs to be in the cart to see the custom deals for that discount rate.

I too was wondering how L5 was added to my account. I thought I might have done it.

But having something added to my cart when I was only looking around is very disturbing.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423481#Comment_423481

Now reading of the new site design ideas at Logos, I went ahead and checked my cart. Probably that'll be needed before signing out each time.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423393#Comment_423393

Yes, it's a fairly common mistake in web design, typically requiring top-notch coders to avoid it. Putting a major upgrade in peoples' carts without their knowledge.

Got it.

[:D] [:P] [:O]

Yep. George is not imagining things. I have had several occasions where something I only looked at "accidentally" fell into my cart. (Just imagine if WalMart hired people to put extra things in your cart this Christmas!)

Joshua Coady

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423491#Comment_423491

I also had the L5 Sliver upgrade show up in my cart without me putting it there. My cart was empty, I added a book, went to my cart, then it had 2 items, the book I added and L5 Silver. I assumed it was a glitch, removed it, and then checked out.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423445#Comment_423445

Due to the discounts you receive for upgrades being different depending on what package you want to upgrade it needs to be in the cart to see the custom deals for that discount rate.

a) If that were true, the only way to compare those discounts -- something one might want to take into account when deciding which package to upgrade to -- would be to select package A, click Customize, take notes or a screenshot of the offers, go to the cart, delete the package, go back to the Upgrade page, select package B, click Customize, take notes or a screenshot of the offers, go to the cart, delete the package, go back to the Upgrade page, select package C... [:S][:S][:S]

b) I actually did the above, something which you clearly has not -- I can't understand why [:P] -- and you are wrong. I get the exact same offers regardless of whether the package in the cart is Starter or Portfolio. So your argument falls.

c) Like I asked Phil in another thread: why should Catholics have to go to the Protestant page and add a
Protestant package to their cart before they can even see the additional
discounts?

I will bring this up as a suggestion as you're right, the Customize button doesn't really give you any context as to what is going to happen nor is it clear what Customize even means.

Glad to see you say that: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/59515/423977.aspx#423977.

I will investigate this. The cart should have been cleared from last week after you purchased it.

(..) having it still in your cart after a purchase and you didn't add it again sounds like a bug to me.

I don't know anything about this particular case, of course, but my first guess would be that the package remains because he ended up buying via a sales rep, not via the web? Are sales rep's instructed to look in the cart and ask if they should empty it?

John Duffy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423109#Comment_423109

Are you certain your cart was empty before you added it? I just tried and I was unable to reproduce the issue of L5 being added to my cart.

Sometimes I've found that when I put something in my cart but don't complete the purchase, and then I complete the purchase over the phone, when I next go to order something the original items are still in my cart. The salesperson seems to process the order independently of what my online cart contents are, although they may have viewed them at some stage in the process.

Mike Estes - Logos

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424473#Comment_424473

a) If that were true, the only way to compare those discounts -- something one might want to take into account when deciding which package to upgrade to -- would be to select package A, click Customize, take notes or a screenshot of the offers, go to the cart, delete the package, go back to the Upgrade page, select package B, click Customize, take notes or a screenshot of the offers, go to the cart, delete the package, go back to the Upgrade page, select package C...

b) I actually did the above, something which you clearly has not -- I can't understand why -- and you are wrong. I get the exact same offers regardless of whether the package in the cart is Starter or Portfolio. So your argument falls.

That was my understanding that a different package would have different customized prices. Clearly it's wrong. I'll revise my statement above and make sure that this thread is in the report. As it currently works you need to add a package to the cart in order to see the discounted prices for the Customize deal items.

c) Like I asked Phil in another thread: why should Catholics have to go to the Protestant page and add a
Protestant package to their cart before they can even see the additional
discounts?

They shouldn't have to and hopefully this will be addressed soon.

I don't know anything about this particular case, of course, but my first guess would be that the package remains because he ended up buying via a sales rep, not via the web? Are sales rep's instructed to look in the cart and ask if they should empty it?

Right, calling sales to order will not clear the cart on your web page. But I'm still going to investigate already purchased packages showing up again as a few that reported it most likely knew that calling in to order wouldn't clear their cart.

Mike Estes - Logos

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424546#Comment_424546

Sometimes I've found that when I put something in my cart but don't complete the purchase, and then I complete the purchase over the phone, when I next go to order something the original items are still in my cart. The salesperson seems to process the order independently of what my online cart contents are, although they may have viewed them at some stage in the process.

Correct, calling in to order something will not clear your cart on the web page.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424585#Comment_424585

As it currently works you need to add a package to the cart in order to see the discounted prices for the Customize deal items.

I assumed the displayed prices of add-ons were the already discounted pricing. I did not find any of the offerings especially appealing (had a few) so I did not place any in the basket. But I wonder if some users do want them but don't know they have to add it to the cart to see a special offer.

[*] Had there been something on Archaeology I would have clicked every button on the screen. [*]

Joshua Coady

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424592#Comment_424592

As it currently works you need to add a package to the cart in order to see the discounted prices for the Customize deal items.

I assumed the displayed prices of add-ons were the already discounted pricing. I did not find any of the offerings especially appealing (had a few) so I did not place any in the basket. But I wonder if some users do want them but don't know they have to add it to the cart to see a special offer.

Had there been something on Archaeology I would have clicked every button on the screen.

I dont know how it is supposed to work, but this is how it worked for me:

Prices shown on the screen after clicking customize had the discounts displayed there on the customize page
Individual product pages for those items do not display the discount
The discount for the items only showed in the cart if there was also a package in the cart
It also seemed like there were more items eligible for the discount than what was being displayed to me on the customize page -- I added an item to my cart that was not shown on the customize page and it also got a discount. Its discount went away if I removed the packaged from the cart.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424599#Comment_424599

It also seemed like there were more items eligible for the discount than what was being displayed to me on the customize page -- I added an item to my cart that was not shown on the customize page and it also got a discount. Its discount went away if I removed the packaged from the cart.

I hope others figure that out. No loss on my part. I am just happy to get to upgrade. I still have more Pre-Pubs in the pipeline.