Logos 5 when Logos 4 is still not finished & stable??? Am I losing my mind?

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Posts 152
Mike Strawn | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Nov 15 2012 5:04 AM

Is anyone else confused? I have been waiting patiently for over a year for Logos 4 to be finished, bug-free, and stable and now Logos 5 arrives on the scene - and I have to pay for an upgrade to get it. What am I missing here??? So the developers were working on a new release - while the faithful, patient customers of the MAC Logos 4 version have been experiencing too many bugs and shortcomings to mention - now we are all supposed to just invest in the upgrade, forget about all of the problems we have been experiencing and hope for the best. I am seriously very confused and quite frankly - frustrated. My Logos 4 still crashes every single time I try to exit the program. It is sluggish at best, bug infested and as far as I know - we never really actually got a final release of version 4. We are still in the Alpha version of the Logos 4 product. How and why is this happening - could someone please explain this to us.

Thanks

Mike

Posts 2477
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 5:08 AM

I'm not a Mac user so I cannot comment on those concerns.  However, there is going to be a free Logos 5 engine (if that is correct term) coming soon.

Posts 13415
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 5:21 AM

Ronald Quick:
However, there is going to be a free Logos 5 engine (if that is correct term) coming soon.

Precisely. Soon, you'll be able to get all the optimisations and bug fixes that are included in L5, for free. (So long as your Mac OS is relatively up to date.)

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Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 5:29 AM

Mike Strawn:
the developers were working on a new release - while the faithful, patient customers of the MAC Logos 4 version have been experiencing too many bugs and shortcomings to mention

Mike Strawn:
I have to pay for an upgrade to get it. What am I missing here???

You're missing about two or three weeks of discussion, including the various aspects that

  • while there are never real "final" versions of a software, L4 itself is now in a mature stage even for Mac, where dozens of bugs have been fixed in the latest releases, the Mac-parity list has been cleared and all features promised as "missing in L4 from L3, will be coming" are there
  • L4 still is being maintained and it doesn't seem L5 development brought L4 maintenace to a stall in the last half year or so, quite the opposite. 
  • Some of the shortcomings of L4 (especially Mac-related speed and stability) were not solvable in the L4 technical base and thus have been solved by the L5 update
  • thus, summing up, L5 currently is more a kind of L4 "final" as opposed to a radically different product as L4 was opposed to L3
  • many Mac users - even critical ones that belonged to "the vocal minority of those with the problems" as you seem to do as well - have reported that L5 solved their stability and speed issues and even looks better than L4
  • you won't need to pay for upgrading to L5, there will be a free engine and for those who want to use the cool new database-driven features there will be Crossgrades, the paid upgrades are for additional content

 

Mike Strawn:
Thanks

You're welcome Wink

Mick

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 6:52 AM

I think the Mac users tend to sleep late (the Windows users have to get up early, to try and re-start their PCs).

But I believe if you search for Bob and Mono you'll see his explanation of why he chose the route he did (L5 and the updated Mono being released almost simulaneously).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 2477
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 2:48 PM

DMB:
I think the Mac users tend to sleep late (the Windows users have to get up early, to try and re-start their PCs).

Made me laughBig Smile

Posts 1717
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 7:20 PM

Mike Strawn:
We are still in the Alpha version of the Logos 4 product. How and why is this happening - could someone please explain this to us.

Mike, I'm sorry you're frustrated.

Logos 4.6a fixed most outstanding Mac issues; the stability issues remaining relate mostly to memory management and other issues in one of the platform technologies we use (Mono). Those were fixed (tech-detail: a brand new 'garbage collector' for managed memory) in a new version of Mono that was in beta in parallel with the Logos 5 beta. It released at the same time as Logos 5; we didn't want to destabilize Logos 4, but we're already working to back-port it to the 4 engine, which should be updated relatively soon with this final (and very helpful) stability improvement.

(Apologies to my Mac dev team, and you, for any technical glossing over. I think I have the essentials right, though...)

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 7:45 PM

Mark Barnes:
Precisely. Soon, you'll be able to get all the optimisations and bug fixes that are included in L5, for free

Soon will be Q1 of 2013.

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 16 2012 3:41 PM

Dear Mike: As you probably know from these forums, I have been one of the unlucky few that has had a terrible time with Logos 4. You are probably also aware of me being very vocal about it.

Thats said, much to my surprise, after watching the Mark Barnes Video's and some of the Logos video's , I did upgrade to 5 ( I know, I'm shocked I did it as well ! )

I feel I have to post here to let you how thats working out. ( You and, everyone that has put up with me over the last couple of years).

So far, it's pretty good, almost all my version 4 issues are gone or now minimal.

It is faster, it is more stable, it is smoother.

Is it as fast as Accordance?

No, it's not.

But there is a marked difference.

Scrolling is better, much better.

Is it bug free at this point?

No, it's not, but again, it IS much, much better.

If you don't want to upgrade, I highly recommend updating to the version 5 engine or do the cross grade route.

Version 5 is much closer to what I expected to get with version 4.

So far, am indeed, fairly happy.

 

It still needs some speed improvements, some responsiveness improvement and there are reported small bugs being reported, but this is a much, much better product.

Blessings all,

Rusty+

 

 

Posts 1
Daniel Fuoco | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 19 2012 10:52 AM

When will that free Logos 5 engine be available?

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 19 2012 11:02 AM

Daniel Fuoco:

When will that free Logos 5 engine be available?

1Q of 2013 (within the next four months)

Posts 152
Mike Strawn | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 22 2012 3:29 AM

If we can purchase the L5 Upgrade today - why do we have to wait until Q1 2013 for the Upgrade? Why doesn't Logos offer the free upgrade now as it is available to new Logos MAC Users? I'm still a bit confused.

Thanks

Mike

Posts 13415
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 22 2012 3:45 AM

Mike Strawn:
If we can purchase the L5 Upgrade today - why do we have to wait until Q1 2013 for the Upgrade? Why doesn't Logos offer the free upgrade now as it is available to new Logos MAC Users? I'm still a bit confused.

Bob has likened it to films being released at movie theaters and on DVD or cable before being available on free-to-air TV. He also mentioned the issue of spreading out  demand to ensuring that support staff are able to offer support in a timely manner.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 22 2012 4:09 AM

Yep, Mike. I missed that one too. On the Windows side (me), maybe it makes sense. L4 works pretty good, but I'm willing to pay 'early' for the nifty new databases (and I don't mind paying either, having tried to do the same thing and recognized a monstrous amount of time).

But the Mac is a different animal, apparently being pretty 'buggy' on the L4 (I put that in quotes since it appeared to vary by machine, and again apparently with L5 a good portion of the instability is reduced).

So, if L5 on the Mac is what L4 should have been 2 years ago (if my memory serves), why make Mac owners 'pay up' to stop the bad performance?

As we ALL know, they can't use Libronix (like ME!! yea!!).

Now in Bob's defense, the discount on the upgrades ('pay up') run out at the end of Jan 2013 (per a tip from one of the Logos salesmen). That would suggest the point in time you can decently use your Logos/Mac. Or ... hint, hint ... slide some money in Bob's direction.

 

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 15805
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 22 2012 9:41 AM

Mark Barnes:

Mike Strawn:
If we can purchase the L5 Upgrade today - why do we have to wait until Q1 2013 for the Upgrade? Why doesn't Logos offer the free upgrade now as it is available to new Logos MAC Users? I'm still a bit confused.

Bob has likened it to films being released at movie theaters and on DVD or cable before being available on free-to-air TV. He also mentioned the issue of spreading out  demand to ensuring that support staff are able to offer support in a timely manner.

Seem to remember reading free engine needs a bit of tweaking for better behavior if the new Logos 5 resources are not in a Logos library.

Thankful for Logos 4.6a SR-3 and Logos 5.0a stable releases.

Thankful for upcoming Beta releases: Logos 4.6b and Logos 5.0b

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 152
Mike Strawn | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 22 2012 10:26 AM

Guys - all I'm really trying to say is this - because we have been loyal and patient through all of the development, bugs, releases - all in anticipation of a stable L4 that we have been told for several years is coming - for that loyalty to the product (which I love and use EVERY day) - I feel the L5 Upgrade should have been rolled out in conjunction of the announcement for new new users. I'm just not thrilled over the announcement to us being "WAIT AGAIN" and not weeks - months - it just doesn't seem like we were considered at the top of the list. I'm not angry, not disgruntled, not jumping ship - just saying - I think the whole L5 thing could have and should have been handled such that the current customer base was top priority as a show of appreciation to us waiting so long already.

Blessings

Mike

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 22 2012 10:46 AM

Mike Strawn:

Guys - all I'm really trying to say is this - because we have been loyal and patient through all of the development, bugs, releases - all in anticipation of a stable L4 that we have been told for several years is coming - for that loyalty to the product (which I love and use EVERY day) - I feel the L5 Upgrade should have been rolled out in conjunction of the announcement for new new users. I'm just not thrilled over the announcement to us being "WAIT AGAIN" and not weeks - months - it just doesn't seem like we were considered at the top of the list. I'm not angry, not disgruntled, not jumping ship - just saying - I think the whole L5 thing could have and should have been handled such that the current customer base was top priority as a show of appreciation to us waiting so long already.

Blessings

Mike

FYI... Even the top brass at Logos has said that they screwed up the rollout of L5.

Posts 165
Wayne | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 22 2012 10:52 AM

Mike Strawn:
I think the whole L5 thing could have and should have been handled such that the current customer base was top priority as a show of appreciation to us waiting so long already.

A lot of users don't want that to happen as we fear the next step would be to charge for the new software engine. Charging for a new software upgrade is standard practice. I for one am hopeful that the software engine continues to be offered for free in the future. Right now I am able to help pay for the new software development, but as income goes to being fixed that will not always be the case.

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 23 2012 5:19 PM

FWIW: As one of the people who had so much trouble for Logos 4, in fact to the point that I only used it for a searchable e-reader , I just wanted to say again that version 5 is indeed, much, much better.

I think everyone agrees the roll-out was not done as well as it should /could have been and I hate the fact the engine is not out for everyone to use.

What I can say is: If there is anyway for you to do the cross grade deal, life with Logos does get better.

My machine has not changed, but I am now able to actually start using the features of Logos.

Sadly, this does prove beyond any doubt that Logos 4 was never what it should have been, that it was not my computer, as I said many times.

However, I am now glad I spent a little more just to see. Knowing I could give it back for a refund was the assurance I needed in order to test it.

Yes, there has been some frustration with the thoughts of :" Why didn't you give me this for my money in the first place", yet, like most "why me, why now" type things, this too passed.

All I can say is this is what I thought I was buying in the first place, and , even more.

It's still no speed demon, I do see the occasional "spinning pizza", still have some light scrolling issues if too many links/filters/interlinear open. Yet it's not crashing, not doing strange things ( other than opening in little box sometimes) and is allowing me to use many features I never dared to in 4.

Version 5 is worth changing too, IMHO.

Thanks for patiently putting up with me and my frustrations the last couple years, I know I can be a pain.

Blessings All.

Posts 35
Colin Ware | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 23 2012 11:56 PM

As I have said on another page I am somewhat reluctant to upgrade to L5 particularly as some additional resources I already own. Don't know why I need to pay for them again. I am not a MAC user but based on your comments there is appears to be a positive benefit in at least the cross-grade. A pathway that I have to think about seriously.

Thanks for your information.

Colin

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