New Feature in Logos 5: Popular Highlights

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This post has 170 Replies | 8 Followers

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Alan Macgregor | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 1 2012 10:42 AM

Graham Owen:
The new community model is a long way from the paradigm that I originally bought into which was simply having my books on my computer. I started using Logos because it was like real books only better.

That's the Logos Bible Software I bought into. It's the only Logos Bible Software that I'm interested in.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 1 2012 10:46 AM

As I have been reading this thread there is a lot of discussion about EULA but I don't know what that is. Perhaps this is because I'm Canadian. Can someone provide a quick overview?

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Alan Macgregor | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 1 2012 10:49 AM

End-User Licence Agreement (EULA) is the licensing agreement that we agreed to when we first bought Logos.

Every blessing

Alan

BTW I'm Scottish, Bruce.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 1 2012 10:53 AM

Alan Macgregor:

End-User Licence Agreement (EULA) is the licensing agreement that we agreed to when we first bought Logos.

Every blessing

Alan

BTW I'm Scottish, Bruce.

Thanks Alan. You have to love acronyms!

With a name like Macgregor I knew that you at least had Scottish roots! I have some Scottish roots myself.

 

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Posts 60
James Hudson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 1 2012 11:23 AM

When I hover over the ? icon for "Send Feedback" it CLEARLY states

"None: Logos 5 will not gather any information"

 

I kinda take that at face value - "ANY information" is "ANY information" - that to me includes information about what I highlight.

Have I misunderstood?

 

Posts 440
Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 1 2012 11:32 AM

Hey fellews:

I am trying to get an answer...I do not see the popular hightlighting in any of my resources. Running Logos 5.0a SR-1

Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M

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Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 1 2012 11:52 AM

David Taylor Jr:
Logos has been forward about their data mining since the EULA of L4.  This is why I don't understand the outcry.  They told all of us they were doing it, most of us just didn't care to read it.

Good point, I can't remember the last time that I read the EULA having spent the last 16 plus years investing in Logos. I guess that's a pretty naive thing to say!

Why the outcry? Simple, just because its covered by the EULA does not mean that the long term users have to like it. 

The problem for Logos with users like me is that as we have too much invested in the platform to leave but we do have a set of expectations set some years ago and whilst they want to keep us happy so we carry on buying additional resources they also want to develop the product to attract a new generation of users.

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 564
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 1 2012 11:57 AM

DMB:
People keep pointing to the EULA as if it has some significance. When the investment (your books) only works with the company's software, then the EULA is simply fluff.   You'll use whatever the company wishes.

Yes

God Bless

Graham

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alabama24 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 1 2012 11:57 AM

Pastor Michael Huffman:
I do not Graham

It may not be turned on for all users… I know that they were doing a soft roll out. 

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Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 1 2012 12:03 PM

Pastor Michael Huffman:
I am trying to get an answer...I do not see the popular hightlighting in any of my resources. Running Logos 5.0a SR-1

Try looking in Fifty Reasons Why Jesus Came To Die by John Piper - this is the one that I used to disable this.

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 1562
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 2 2012 8:56 AM

Pick a well known book like Morning and Evening by Spurgeon.  The popular highlighting is in light grey.  Also make sure you have the "popular highlighting" box checked under visual filters.

 

 

 

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 2 2012 11:53 AM

alabama24:
It may not be turned on for all users… I know that they were doing a soft roll out. 

This is part of the problem, it was so soft it was unannounced...

Dave
===

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alabama24 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 2 2012 2:10 PM

Dave Hooton:
This is part of the problem, it was so soft it was unannounced...

It was announced: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/61098.aspx

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 2 2012 2:31 PM

Announcements in the same thread as the thread being critical of no announcements doesn't count. It has to be another thread.

This rule doesn't apply if the announcement implies availability when it's a soft rollout and therefore not available (thus not really being announced). I still haven't seen an example. I'm afraid to update over the weekend.


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Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 2 2012 3:15 PM

alabama24:

Hi A. did you see my (long) comment/post? Any comment/thoughts? Do you see the issues with this for some people?

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 2 2012 3:25 PM

Graham Owen:
I think a big part of the problem here is that you are releasing these 'Community' and other Features and then taking feedback while defending the implementation.

Good point.

Because this thread is getting so long, I'll post a "roadmap" on a new thread.

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 2 2012 3:42 PM

Patrick S.:
Separate the functionality of the new 'social' features

There are two kinds of 'social' features in Logos; ones where we analyze your data for stats, and ones where we feed analyzed data back to you. You can already turn off the "fed back" popular highlights by turning the filter off; you'll soon be able to turn off community tags and ratings that way, too.

The features where we analyze synced data -- like computing the popular highlights -- are in a way harder to opt out of. Because you don't "send us data" for this feature -- we just run an analysis of the data you're already sending us for sync purposes. For you to "opt out" completely you would have to "turn off Internet" access for the product.

Or, ironically, we'd have to store 'more' information -- we'd need to record your ID to be skipped in the statistical analysis. (In some of the statistical analysis we are working with records that don't have user ID's attached, so we'd have to start storing user ID's with those records in order to check them against the list to not use in the analysis!)

 

For those who'd like a geeky example... with popular highlighting we're running an analysis of the synced highlights from everyone's note files. You aren't sending us more data for popular highlighting, we're just analyzing the data already synced. (It's a MASSIVE amount of data.) Software scanned the database once, and now runs new scans on new content, finding highlights and essentially incrementing a counter on every character in a book if it's included in a highlight. We aren't even copying the highlights out -- we're taking counts. Imagine highlights are capital letters:

User 1: the BIG RED TREE was cut down

User 2: the big RED tree was CUT down

Popular: 000011112221111100000011100000

Result: RED was highlighted by 2 users

 

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Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 2 2012 3:55 PM

Bob Pritchett:
You can already turn off the "fed back" popular highlights by turning the filter off; you'll soon be able to turn off community tags and ratings that way, too.

Funny, when I first heard about the community ratings and similar features, I didn't like the idea.  After all, what do I care what other people think.  Then, I realized two things:  (1) that was my pride talking, and (2) what other people are thinking is like many other tools...sometimes there's a good use for it.

Now, I've come up with a couple good reasons to see community highlights, ratings, etc.  And the community tags is as useful as any reviews feature one might find on Amazon-dot-com, etc.

As I've written elsewhere, the community ratings feature will, over time, trend to a rating of between 2.5 to 3.0 due to a well-documented statistical anomaly, secondary to the fact that no majority of users will use the ratings in the same way.  Even so, there can be some useful purposes for the tool.

Fortunately, as Bob notes above, Logos is making the tools user-selectable rather than deleting them when a few folks complain.  I recommend the rest of us be a little more patient with these things rather than just do the knee-jerk dance.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 2 2012 4:07 PM

Bob Pritchett:
For those who'd like a geeky example...

Nice explanation Bob. And while I don't expect to make much use of community highlights feature, I do think it is a useful addition to our tools.

Logos4catholics Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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alabama24 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 2 2012 7:17 PM

Patrick S.:
Do you see the issues with this for some people?

Yes. One of my fellow MVP's convinced me that there are legitimate reasons why some may not want this feature. My comment that there was an announcement wasn't meant to comment on the value or propriety of the feature (personally I do like it), but just to point out that there was an announcement of the feature… (I wasn't speaking about an announcement of the data mining). If you follow my posts back, you will see that I was originally trying to explain why one user may not have been seeing this feature in his installation. I was half speculating on a soft roll out when Dave said it was unannounced. If he was writing about the feature, he was mistaken (this very thread was the announcement). If he was writing about the data mining, I think he was correct. 

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