default Greek font in Logos 5

Page 1 of 1 (15 items)
This post has 14 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 725
Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Nov 30 2012 12:39 PM

The new default Greek font is not nearly as pleasing to the eye or as legible as the Greek font in Logos 4.

Does anyone know what this font is?

I know other fonts can be selected.

But there is something not right in how the font is rendered. It is choppy and appears somewhat like an old dot matrix printer. When I copy the text over to MS Word, it is much clearer to read.

It also appears that the Greek font used in the pop-up menus is different than the Greek font used in the Greek New Testament resources. It is more of a simple sans-serif font.

Posts 1690
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 30 2012 1:14 PM

The font in the user interface is Source Sans Pro. The font in the resources is Skolar.

Source Sans Pro does not yet have Greek, so I believe we're 'falling back' to another font in the UI. (I imagine Segoe UI on Windows.) Source Sans Pro should get polytonic Greek support in the near future, though,

Skolar is presently getting more hinting for the Greek characters and should look better in an upcoming release. 

Posts 725
Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 30 2012 1:16 PM

It appears if you change program scaling to 90%, the fonts render closer to what they did in Logos 4. The line spacing is different, but the font is closer in appearance.

Here is the 100% program scaling (default):

Here is the 90% program scaling:

Here is Logos 4 100% program scaling for comparison (very close to Logos 5 at 90% scaling):

Here is the text copied from Logos to MS Word displayed at 100%.

It appears that in Logos 5, the 90% scaling is closer to 100% scaling in MS Word and Logos 4. The line spacing is different, but the font is rendered closer in size. I don't know if this is a bug or an intentional increase in the overall program scaling.

I am using Logos 5.0a on Windows 7.

 

Posts 725
Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 30 2012 1:23 PM

Bob Pritchett:
The font in the user interface is Source Sans Pro. The font in the resources is Skolar.

When the Greek text is pasted into MS Word it comes across as Times Roman. Is there anyway to use these fonts in Word or are they baked into Logos?

Also, what is the Greek font that was used for resources in Logos 4? Is it possible to offer that as an option? I liked the thinner rendering of lines.

Thanks for your response, Bob.

Posts 1690
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 30 2012 5:11 PM

We used Gentium in Logos 4; I believe it's still embedded and available as an option. It's also free on the Internet, so you can use it in Word or whatever you'd like.

It's hard to get the right balance of copying font specification / not copying it, and thus not overriding the user's preferred font in Word. I'm afraid we'll never get this exactly right, since there isn't a "right" answer....

Posts 188
Kevin Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 30 2012 10:08 PM

I'm personally happier with the default fonts in L5 over the L4 fonts.  Skolar is a dream for me and the L5 Greek font is a bit better to my eyes.

Logos 5, Windows & Android perfect together....

Posts 9945
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 30 2012 10:25 PM

Bob Pritchett:

We used Gentium in Logos 4; I believe it's still embedded and available as an option. It's also free on the Internet, so you can use it in Word or whatever you'd like.

It's hard to get the right balance of copying font specification / not copying it, and thus not overriding the user's preferred font in Word. I'm afraid we'll never get this exactly right, since there isn't a "right" answer....

I don't know how you got ahold of the KadmosU font from the American Philological Association, but that's the one I've been using for some time ever since it showed up in either L3 or L4.  It reminds me of the Greek fonts used in print books.  It's a keeper.  I like the SBL Hebrew font for Akkadian Big Smile.  OK, I'm lying about the Akkadian part, but I like the SBL Hebrew font – not so much the SBL Greek.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 2465
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 5 2013 5:07 AM

Bob Pritchett:

The font in the user interface is Source Sans Pro. The font in the resources is Skolar.

Source Sans Pro does not yet have Greek, so I believe we're 'falling back' to another font in the UI. (I imagine Segoe UI on Windows.) Source Sans Pro should get polytonic Greek support in the near future, though,

Skolar is presently getting more hinting for the Greek characters and should look better in an upcoming release. 

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread. Apparently Segoe UI supports polytonic Greek. I kinda like it. How could I force Logos to use this font for Greek display. It does not appear in the list of Greek fonts available.

Posts 9870
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 13 2014 7:24 AM

Bob Pritchett:

The font in the user interface is Source Sans Pro. The font in the resources is Skolar.

Source Sans Pro does not yet have Greek, so I believe we're 'falling back' to another font in the UI. (I imagine Segoe UI on Windows.)

The use of Skolar as default is a bad choice since it has a wrong implementation of small theta (uncial theta?), confusing especially new learners of Greek (see https://faithlife.com/basics-of-biblical-greek/topics/291 ) who mistake the "normal" small theta for a capital theta. 

Some pictures: Default font in use, we see Mounce BBG in the middle tab and a Greek NT to the right.

 

(Needless to say, the printed BBG and Nestle-Aland Greek NT use normal small theta, not the one shown above)

This gets especially weird considering the use of Segoe UI (green) and Arial Unicode MS (yellow) in L5 outside of resources:

 

If I use any of my installed Greek fonts other than Default, the first picture will look like this:

In fact, none of my installed unicode fonts will use the uncial small theta - which is to be expected, since according to wikipedia, this has its own unicode reference number, used for some technical units or so.

See

 

Here's the Word version to play around, but I wanted to make sure with the screenshot it looks alike for everybody: 6560.Greek Font Choices in Logos 5.docx

Thus I think, Skolar is not a good idea. I personally prefer GentiumAlt, but everyone's mileage may differ. 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 13 2014 10:01 AM

I couldn't disagree more! Your first image is the one that shows what I'd call a 'normal' theta. I hate it when the small theta looks like a thin version of the big. It's not too bad when it's the first letter, but when it's found in the middle of a word, it's very disruptive. It just doesn't look like it belongs there. It looks like they've suddenly thrown in a letter in another font or something.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 9945
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 13 2014 10:40 AM

fgh:

I couldn't disagree more! Your first image is the one that shows what I'd call a 'normal' theta. I hate it when the small theta looks like a thin version of the big. It's not too bad when it's the first letter, but when it's found in the middle of a word, it's very disruptive. It just doesn't look like it belongs there. It looks like they've suddenly thrown in a letter in another font or something.

What doesn't look Рight?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 9870
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 13 2014 10:42 AM

fgh:

Your first image is the one that shows what I'd call a 'normal' theta. I hate it when the small theta looks like a thin version of the big. 

fgh, 

of course you are entitled to your own taste - if I had learned Greek with the uncial theta, it would probably annoy me as well to see it look differently. However, it seems that print publishers as well as font designers have decided to go for the other option. 

I am all for giving users a choice - Logos could have Skolar as an optional font (actually it seems there are versions of it, with different lowercase theta).

However, using the only unicode implementation that I know of which runs against the seemingly overwhelming consensus makes it difficult for learners who are not aware of the variant options and are left confused (see the faithlife thread I linked above). That's the unfortunate thing besides using an inconsistent font in resources, the UI and in search results - IMHO these should all use the same.

Mick

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 2465
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 13 2014 3:08 PM

NB.Mick:

I am all for giving users a choice

Yes  Odd thing is that Segoe UI cannot be selected in the Greek font selection.

Check out http://www.greekfontsociety.gr. Some good fonts to look at (don't like their Porson though). The licensing is truly terrific. A hint (pardon the pun) to Logos!

Posts 138
LogosEmployee
Clifford Kvidahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 13 2014 4:15 PM

I am a bit of a Greek font snob. Right now I have installed the Brill Greek font, which I am very fond of. Here is the link for the font download.

http://www.brill.com/sites/default/files/brill_font_package_2_02.zip

Let me know what you think of the font.

Cliff

Posts 2465
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 13 2014 6:19 PM

I'm not a fan of thin or slanted Greek letters (with the exception of Oxford's Porson). I prefer them full-width and upright, in line with modern convention.

Some MS fonts like Segoe UI, Calibri and Cambria support polytonic and could be good alternatives. However for some reason they are not selectable within Settings.

Page 1 of 1 (15 items) | RSS