How to re-write and release a replacement product.

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 4:16 PM

 

Shawn Drewett:
Another thing- to me telling a person "if you have complaints about L4 , get a refund" is like telling someone who has a complaint about America to revoke his/her citizenship!.

 

Kevin A. Purcell:
Well said. It's like a pastor telling a disgruntled church member to just leave the church. Insensitive.

No....it's not like either and I'm surprised you'd both make such a wild comparison.... It's simple; buy a product, don't like it....refund. Country of citizenship in the same catagory?....really? Like a Pastor blowing off a congregant? Really...that's the comparison?     PS: Nobody EVER said..."if you have complaints"....that's misrepresenting what was said....that's a strawman. What was said was...."there's always the option to get a refund" and considering the tone of the posts like this one; not and inquisitive question on how it can be made to work, or the innoucous "Does anyone have any suggestions?" or even..."this is disappointing...I think I'm going to stick with V3 until the sentencing diagramming is introduced into V4..." considering that......it seems like  suggesting a refund is a perfectly valid alternative...why is that an insult to you both??  Tongue Tied Simple Simple simple....

Robert Pavich

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Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 4:24 PM

Robert Pavich:
No....it's not like either and I'm surprised you'd both make such a wild comparison

Let me correct my statement. It is how it makes me feel. And you cannot say it does not.

As for people telling people to go away if they have complaints. I read just that kind of post. A new user had a long littany of complaints and the third response was essentially go away. That was here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/6170.aspx

 

Posts 545
Shawn Drewett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 4:25 PM

If all customer Logos customer service representatives had your outlook Robert, the company would shut down in a few months or years.How do you think they got to where they are now? EXELLENT CUSTOMER SERVICE! What a great post from Sean Boisen! THIS IS LOGOS, NOT "hey if you don't like it , get a refund!!

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 4:32 PM

Kevin A. Purcell:

Robert Pavich:
No....it's not like either and I'm surprised you'd both make such a wild comparison

Let me correct my statement. It is how it makes me feel. And you cannot say it does not.

As for people telling people to go away if they have complaints. I read just that kind of post. A new user had a long littany of complaints and the third response was essentially go away. That was here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/6170.aspx

 

Kevin...fair enough..."it makes me feel...." is ok.....that's less than a "pronouncement"  Big Smile

 

But I believe that you were mistaken in your "go away" quote: here is what was said....

 

Gordon Tatler: I am seriously thinking of kicking it into touch and returning to my trusty WORDsearch program.

 

Perhaps that is your best course of action. No sense in getting an ulcer using a system you hate. I understand that Logos has a 30-day money back policy.

 

That was not only a nice way of putting it it was very sensible....

 

nothing about "go away..." at all....you are misrepresenting what's being said...pure and simple. Sorry....

Robert Pavich

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 4:33 PM

Shawn Drewett:
THIS IS LOGOS, NOT "hey if you don't like it ,

 

Once again...you misrepresent what's said....

 

do you do it on purpose or are you having a problem understanding the written word?

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

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Shawn Drewett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 4:45 PM

Robert, this is your post of Nov. 22, 2009:

 

David,

here's an idea...get a refund and save the frustration....

 

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 4:50 PM

Shawn Drewett:

Robert, this is your post of Nov. 22, 2009:

 

David,

here's an idea...get a refund and save the frustration....

 

 

Once again....did the words take a hike...leave....hit the bricks or anything like that appear there..?

 

no....

 

did you post the context of my comment?

 

No...

 

why not post what this was in response to? that might be informative...

 

Again...you misrepresent what's said....

 

On purpose or by accident?

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

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Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 4:57 PM

Guys,

Can we please cool it? - it's become quite undignified.

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Shawn Drewett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 5:03 PM

You know what Damian, you are right. Call me schizophrenic but I identify with Robert and probably the reason he irritates me is that we are somewhat alike! Robert, I am sorry and appreciate your opposing view. Hey I am too argumentative and those that know me well know that --it aiSadnt good!

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 5:06 PM

Shawn Drewett:
You know what Damian, you are right. Call me schizophrenic but I identify with Robert and probably the reason he irritates me is that we are somewhat alike! Robert, I am sorry and appreciate your opposing view. Hey I am too argumentative and those that know me well know that --it aiSadnt good!

 

Shawn,

I also apologize and unfortuntely, you are right; I have the same disposition that you do....so please...understand that it's a character flaw  on this side of the fence...I really should have said what you said...."i appreciate your opposing view..." and left it at that

 

I've learned (and apparantly unlearned) this lesson more than a few times on this forum....I'm ashamed to say.... Embarrassed

 

Edited to add: Kevin....same goes to you..I apologize...

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

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Shawn Drewett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 5:11 PM

Hey we wouldn't  want our wives to testfy huh?Embarrassed

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Russ Quinn | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 5:13 PM

Awww . . . I am verklempt.

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 5:16 PM

How bad was i that it took DAMIAN to return some sanity to the conversation???Wink

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

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Ken Avery | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 5:22 PM

JackCaviness:

Ken Avery:
I must disagree strongly that the new product is not required to function as the old product; I have maintained SW that has to be backwords compatable for decades, you don't remove features that breaks your customer base!

Ken

Your multiple posts make me wonder if you have ever heard of these companies: Microsoft, Apple? They don't seem to think that your absolutes are so absolute.

 

Time for SW school again Geeked

What changes and what does not change depends on what type of SW you are writing; for example, if you start with the operating system and the device drivers you will find that the requirements tend to stay the same while the HW changes. Take the network stack; how much do you think it has changed in the past 20 years, not much.

A simple way to look at it is how databases work; first you have data, second you have data relationships and third you have views of the data. For example, you might have the following tables:

  1. Person id, name, street address, phone id, hair color, height
  2. Phone id, area code, phone number
  3. Street address, Country, Town, zip code

You can maintain this information and provide many ways to view it; the base data fields can stay the same while the ways to view and edit the data can change in several ways and not affect the base design.

The point is, if the program is only providing user interface presentation stuff then there is more opportunity for change without changing the underlying architecture, kind of like changing clothes, you still have the same body functioning underneath.

Before all you non-sw people start linking pages that confirm your own prejudices you might want to spend a little time understanding what you are talking about; what type of program Logos is and should we expect it to be randomly changing because that is what some software does? 

Let me get you caught up on what I have been saying in layman terms; I believe the core engine functionality of Logos has changed in a way that does not support keylinking the way it use to, it is basically broke in comparison to Logos 3, apperantly this is not a big issue for some.

It appears the architecture has changed and also the requirements when it comes to keylinking.

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Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 5:33 PM

Robert Pavich:

How bad was i that it took DAMIAN to return some sanity to the conversation???Wink

 

Oi.....

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 5:51 PM

Edited, because it was unkind and unnecessary. If you read it before is edited, I apologize.

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Ray Timmermans | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 5:53 PM

Philip Spitzer:

Ken Avery:
What about keylinking - I hated it when it first came out and ended up depending on it after getting everything set up - is there something that replaces it?

Have you prioritized any of your resources?

Prioritizing in L4 is simply not as intuitive as L3. In L3 the user had more direct control over the outcome of searches from the context menu. Prioritizing doesn't have a method for doing this, nor is the documentation all that helpful. In fact I have to ask:  what documentation? I have never received a manual of the quality of BibleWorks, for example..a complaint I first made in beta testing of L3 in 2005!!!

 

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Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 5:56 PM

Ray Timmermans:
I have never received a manual of the quality of BibleWorks

Ray, BW7 didn't come with a manual - does BW8?

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 6:03 PM

Sean Boisen:
Rather than detailed keylinking, in L4 you prioritize resources.

I don't know that this is an improvement. To me, prioritizing as currently implemented is a mess. More than key linking, I want to see PRAs. Using the arrow keys to navigate my commentaries is much less functional than L3.

Posts 68
Ray Timmermans | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2009 6:06 PM

Damian McGrath:

Ray Timmermans:
I have never received a manual of the quality of BibleWorks

Ray, BW7 didn't come with a manual - does BW8?

 

Dunno...never found reason to go past 6 Smile

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