Suggestions on Making L4 Custom for the Mac

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This post has 48 Replies | 3 Followers

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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Dec 3 2009 3:12 PM

Bob Pritchett:
We're very interested in your thoughts on this subject

Our goal on Windows is to follow usability guidelines where it makes sense (we follow many Windows guidelines, from standard keystrokes and mouse behavior to capitalization), while still doing what's right for our app. (Which is just what Microsoft (and Apple) does -- after publishing "do it this way" guidelines, they feel free to modify Office or any other app to be right for that app.

On the Mac we need more direction. We understand that Mac users can be, um, enthusiastic... about "the Mac way". So our present plan is to use our basic application framework -- and our windowing system -- while adopting Mac standard controls and patterns wherever possible.

I am starting this thread in hopes that people can post their suggestions here in one place for the developers to read.  

So, how do we make L4 more like a "Mac" software?

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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2009 3:12 PM

Here was my first suggestion from another thread  Use the power of Expose (here I just have Safari and Mail open)

with the power of multiple desktops (here I have Safari and Mail on Desktop 1, Logos 4 on Desktop 2 and Logos 1.2.2 on Desktop 3 and 4 is open.  

If mac users could organize types of books, collections or selected windows and place them by default on various desktops, that would be like having multiple monitors while using only one.

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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2009 3:44 PM

I would like to see a Maclike way of creating a Custom Toolbar.  I do not want to replace the current method of docking books in L4, but ADD the ability to customize the tools.

For example, in Mail, the menu bar looks like this.

To modify it, I right click and get this menu

When I click, Customize Toolbar, I get this menu of options which I can drag and place on the bar any place I like

In L4mac, we have nothing but lots of empty space.

What I would like to see is this, a context menu to customize the logos toolbar

With a custom set of icons that match the L4 look, but lets me use some of my screen to access tools.

Sorry my mockups are so crude, but I hope this gets implemented.  Thanks for listening Logos.

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Posts 10
Frank DeLalla | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2009 5:11 PM

I was thinking the same thing.  I hate when I can't customize a toolbar.  This would be very Mac-ish. 

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2009 7:05 PM

Joe Miller:
If mac users could organize types of books, collections or selected windows and place them by default on various desktops, that would be like having multiple monitors while using only one.

I really like this idea.

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Posts 14
Geary Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2009 7:30 PM

Shalom Bob P. and Joe; and others,

       I agree on the toolbar.  I might add the over all graphics and background need to get ramped up.  Maybe it was just my download but the layout and color scheme is not what I expected.  There is much to be desired....Nothing in the Library looks High Definition or 3dimensional.....I don't know who developed the format and layout for "GLO"  but it's an awesome High Definition layout...Incredibly eye friendly....I suggest some of their graphics technology?  MAC is a system that prides itself on high quality drag and drop, incredible graphics, etc.  Logos should go all out and be "State of the Art" in graphics with : videos, maps, etc.  360 Degree rotation technology as in "GLO".  I don't own GLO but saw a demo at LIFEWAY bible store....It truly is a work of Art.....The scroll feature to read the BIBLE from right to left is truly   "MACesque"   I think the Mac programmers need to go High Definition and State of the Art for : Tool bar, interace, graphics, videos, etc.   THe Bible software should "GRAB  YOUR ATTENTION"       Seriosly BOB,  take a look at GLO and see what your Mac programmers think?  I also suggest Ray Vander Laan's teaching video series on location in Israel  is a must add to the Libronix system......He's published through Zondervan or Focus on the Family.....ALso,  why not some children friendly books and studybibles for youth?  My kids already like my system but the "GLO" system is more there speed.....WHy not add some of that to LOGOS....   Today's children are tomorrow's leaders......Why let teens and youth start utilizing another system when they could use LOGOS......There are thousands of high quality videos series, books, bibles with pictures, etc.  That would be good for kids.....Like Holman's Study Bible or something like that.........Ok,  that's enough input.....  Note:  Before I took the time to type this out I asked my 12 yr. old daughter what she would like to see, my wife, and a couple friends who are Mac college age guys at my church.......I go to a church of about 350  and many of the college age, high school,  are all using MACBOOKS......Jump on now with state of the art mac stuff and gain a whole new generation of LOGOS audience!!!  Blessings and I hope you don't easily dismiss my "GLO" software suggestions the imaging is state of the art....I know it's not incredibly scholarly.....Let's face it we like eye candy too.......It keeps us going sometimes when we're studying.......Blessings in JESUS.

Posts 2750
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2009 7:59 PM

Hi Geary, I don't disagree about making the UI more edgy, but I also have to say that I don't see a lot of difference between L4mac, Mail, or Safari.  They are all about even on the looks department, but again, I think the designers could aim a little higher. :-)

Do you have some screen shots you could post on the specific things to implement.  Saying "look at XXX" is a bit broad.  I personally would like to see some of the specific images that inspire you and how you see them implemented in Logos.  Anyway, any visuals you could put up would be awesome.  Thanks.

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Posts 14
Geary Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2009 9:25 PM

Hello Joe,

      Let me begin by saying I'm not savvy enough to do screen shots of what I'm talking about....And No I'm not trying to give free advertising to another company.......It's simple as typing "www.bibleglo.com"  and look at their media platform button, bible, and virtual tour buttons, timeline, etc.    The program is incredibly innovative....This guys is on to something....No, it's not a program for doing hours of deep exegetical study.   However,  there is no reason that some of their technology couldn't be adapted in toolbars, the media section, etc.   Their platform is so user friendly from their video.....Their bible you read from actually scrolls like you're actually turning the page....  Ok, I'll stop right there......No I don't own it b/c it's only for Windows users....Mac version available later in 2010...I think LOGOS could beat them to the punch....and adapt some of their technology......WHat I'm gettin at is their platform is so "MACESQUE"  Why not "Re THINK"  the actual LOGOSMAC PLATFORM a little....Let's go for it..........Hands down LOGOS is the "FUTURE" with Libronix technology  however it appears that "GLO" is using their idea for interlacing  like LOGOS does on their "Timeline" Feature.....Bottom line is graphics, toolbar platform like GLO.....Or at least go in that direction, drag and drop features, etc.   That's more MAC like than you realize.......Media friendly to the rest of the Logos library and High resolution stuff.......Take a look and you'll see what I mean......I know the mac dept. for LOGOS has already seen the "GLO software"  I'm sure they  have.....I hope they are adapting some of their technology......Ok, enough spoken....I do appreciate my Logos 4mac download....Just hoping the final version updates greatly upgrade the things we've discussed.....There is no doubt the guy at GLO is a programmer "Genius"  who's doing stuff out way out of the box.....I'll probably get it for my kids on their desk top soon....Once, the Mac version comes out......I'm only putting a wish list out there for a mid 30's guy who is used to MAC and just spent 650.00 last night.......So please have a little grace..  Take care guys at MACLOGOS staff and Joe M.   Shalom.

Posts 10
Tom E. Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 11 2009 9:45 AM

Interface of Logos 4 requests to aid easy use

  1.  When opening L4 could the window dimensions be the same as one had left it before (e.g. I tend to use it half screen, but filling top to bottom with the toolbar hidden) - currently it opens the same shape, toolbar exposed.
  2. Updating bookmarks (as you read on within a book when you start again from where your bookmark left off)
  3. font selection (the choice of different fonts for different resources)
  4. keyboard short-cut: show/hide contents pane - especially useful if one has chosen to have the toolbar hidden so more of the resource text is visible.
  5. keyboard short-cut: move view to next open resource to left or right - like moving between tabs in safari, e.g. shift, cmd ] OR shift, cmd [ 
  6. when you chose an open resource by clicking on the icon (or moving to it as in point 5) currently one can not use the page up/down buttons straight away - one has to use the mouse and click on the open resource's text before one can use the up / down a page button- this suggestion would make things much smoother and easier to use.

I am sure many would find these suggestions useful if implemented.  Thank you for reading.

Thank you Logos for developments thus far.

Posts 1908
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 11 2009 9:52 AM

Yes

Posts 706
Russ Quinn | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 11 2009 7:05 PM

I would like to see L4 for Mac be able to integrate non L4 files into its guides.

It would be really cool to associate Omnigraffle, Omnioutliner, Keynote, Pages, and other files with L4 resources in such a way that these resources would be included in Passage Guides. I use Omnigraffle for a lot of diagramming, Omnioutliner for notes, Keynote for presentation, and Pages for handouts. My own hard drive could be a personal Sermoncentral.com.

Could L4 use Spotlight to search the whole HD for resources that contain search terms and somehow integrate those results?

Also these results could take advantage of Quicklook to allow quick browsing of the contents.

I think this is the type of functionality where L4 could really exploit some of the unique functionality of OS X.

Of course, there are probably creative ways to use Services and Automator as well.

Posts 2750
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:08 PM

Joe Miller:

Here was my first suggestion from another thread  Use the power of Expose (here I just have Safari and Mail open)

with the power of multiple desktops (here I have Safari and Mail on Desktop 1, Logos 4 on Desktop 2 and Logos 1.2.2 on Desktop 3 and 4 is open.  

If mac users could organize types of books, collections or selected windows and place them by default on various desktops, that would be like having multiple monitors while using only one.

Tried saving my floating Library window on Space #4 with my L4 on Space #3, but when I restored from the saved Workspace, the Library defaulted back to Space #3.  So I will just reiterate my strong desire to have L4mac take advantage of both Expose and Spaces.  Saving workspaces and custom PG searches to take advantage of the Mac specific features would be awesome!!!!

 

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Russ Quinn | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:16 PM

Joe Miller:

Tried saving my floating Library window on Space #4 with my L4 on Space #3, but when I restored from the saved Workspace, the Library defaulted back to Space #3.  So I will just reiterate my strong desire to have L4mac take advantage of both Expose and Spaces.  Saving workspaces and custom PG searches to take advantage of the Mac specific features would be awesome!!!!

Joe,

Is it a limitation of OS X that apps can be assigned to spaces but not discrete windows within an app?

I'm not aware of any app that functions quite like you have described. Even the high end apps like Photoshop and Macs own apps (iLife, iWork, etc.) only allow Spaces assignment on an app level. Of course, my not being aware definitely does not mean much.

Do you know of an app that functions like this?

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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:32 PM

Russ Quinn:
Do you know of an app that functions like this?
GIMP will allow me to put different windows on different spaces.  Also Cyberduck allows me to do it as well.  I came on this by accident with both of these programs, but was hoping it would be possible to make it a design feature in L4.  How cool to have multiple desktops for different aspects of study!!!!

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Posts 343

Making it Logos 4 Mac a 64 bit program would be great to take benefit of the potential of Snow Leopard.

Jason Saling

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:38 PM

Joe Miller:

Russ Quinn:
Do you know of an app that functions like this?
GIMP will allow me to put different windows on different spaces.  Also Cyberduck allows me to do it as well.  I came on this by accident with both of these programs, but was hoping it would be possible to make it a design feature in L4.  How cool to have multiple desktops for different aspects of study!!!!

Size-Up would also allow this, but I removed it because I kept hitting the wrong key combination and having a window disappear. However, like Russ, I know of no app that will let you designate separate spaces for its windows. Joe's suggestion would be awesome if it can be done.

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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:44 PM

I know of no App like Logos :-)

Seriously though, maybe it is not even possible with the Mac architecture, but I sure hope it is possible!

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Russ Quinn | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:54 PM

Joe Miller:

GIMP will allow me to put different windows on different spaces.  Also Cyberduck allows me to do it as well.  I came on this by accident with both of these programs, but was hoping it would be possible to make it a design feature in L4.  How cool to have multiple desktops for different aspects of study!!!!

I'm with you on the cool part. I just wasn't sure it was something that could be done. I'll look at GIMP and Cyberduck sometime soon (I'm a Photoshop and Forklift guy myself). Maybe the open source community is pushing the envelope on this.

How do you assign the windows to different spaces in those programs? Is it a setting in the program or do multiple entries show up in the Spaces preference panel?

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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 6:00 PM

Russ Quinn:
How do you assign the windows to different spaces in those programs? Is it a setting in the program or do multiple entries show up in the Spaces preference panel?
Oh, sorry my answer was misleading.  These two allow me to place different windows on different spaces using drag and drop, but the program does not have an option that allows me auto-asign certain windows to a Space.  What I am hoping L4mac can do is allow me to drag and drop items to different spaces and then save that Workspace for future study.  But, as you guys have pointed out, maybe that is not even possible.  That would be a serious disappointment since I can see some huge potential for Study Spaces.

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R. Mansfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 16 2009 9:21 AM

I find the placement of the "x" to close tabs to be very non-Mac. The x is placed on the far right in a window rather than on the individual tab as in Safari or Firefox and other programs that use a tabbed interface. I realize that the Windows version of L4 does it, too, but this seems non-standard even in Windows. If the x to close a tab was placed on the tab itself, it would make it easier to close non-active tabs, too.

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