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Posts 133
Orpheus Heyward | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Dec 31 2012 7:23 AM

I was wondering if anyone anyone uses logos on a windows 8 tablet? I was under the impression that you can run full logos program on a windows 8 Tablet. Just looking for some feed back before i buy it.  I think one of them is called a surface, or an ATIV. 

Posts 222
Scott E. Mahle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 31 2012 7:34 AM

Logos 5 will run on Surface Pro to be released in 2013.

Posts 133
Orpheus Heyward | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 31 2012 9:25 AM

thanks!  Would you recommend this over an iPad?

Posts 6123
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 31 2012 10:02 AM

Orpheus ... if you're question speaks to Logos5 (on the Windows 8 Surface), there's no comparison. iPad doesn't run Logos5 (instead, the smaller iOS version).

But our friend from Australia has cautioned that we don't know how powerful the Surface will be with Logos5. It might be pretty 'sticky'.

 If your question is the smaller Windows 8 (Arm processor) vs the iPad, I'm sure Alabama will like to comment.


Posts 222
Scott E. Mahle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 31 2012 10:03 AM

Orpheus Heyward:

thanks!  Would you recommend this over an iPad?

I would because the iPad simply runs an app (a cut down version of Logos) while the Surface Pro will run the full program, and likely anything else you would like to throw at it. Here’s a short c/net article on Surface Pro and the Microsoft website so you can determine for yourself which would be better for your situation.

 

Posts 1057
David J. Wilson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 1 2013 7:27 AM

You will need to avoid the currently available MS Surface which does not run the full version of Windows 8 (but a cut down version called Windows RT which will never be able to run Logos 5, but has a specially cut down Logos Bible app that you can use as a reader).

Be careful also which version of the MS Surface with Windows 8 Pro you get, as you could agan get stuck if you have more than a few Logos books.

http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-CA/surface-with-windows-8-pro/home

You will note that the Windows 8 Pro Surface will come in two versions, one with 64GB and one with 128 GB.

Remember that you not only need enough space for your current Logos resources AND the ones you will likely acquire during the life of the Surface, but you also need enough room on the Surface to be able to index (and sometime re-index) them.  Also beware of a little lightly grayed note 3 at the bottom of the page giving details of the Microsoft Surface:

System software uses significant storage space; your storage capacity will be less. 

http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-CA/surface-with-windows-rt/help-me-choose

You get a lot less than 64GB available to run Logos and everything else you will want on your tablet: you may want to avoid tablets with Windows 8 Pro that have 64GB or less of memory available as it will likely restrict what you can install on your machine.  I would suggest 128GB minimum if you want to use Logos 5.  If you are willing to settle for a tablet running a cut down Logos app, you will probably still want at least 32GB memory on the tablet.  There are numerous "complaints" posted in these forums from people with smaller tablet memory wondering why they cannot fit all their books on their tablet (along with everything else they want on there).

Remember you have a considerable investment in Logos 5, it is high end software and it will need a high end tablet, especially if you have more than a few Logos resources to work with. A high end tablet is going to cost a LOT more than a low end tablet, probably in the $1000 to $1200 range. There is a lot of competition in the Tablet market and lots of manufacturers trying to sell cheaper versions of tablets which may sound promising but will be very limited in what they can do. We have NO REVIEWS on how Logos 5 works on a WINDOWS 8 PRO Surface Tablet with a lot of resources.  The specs sound promising, but we have yet to see how these will work out in practice.  A 10.6" 1920x1080 screen and 128GB memory should work if everything else is engineered properly. Full-size USB 3.0 and microSDXC card slot should allow reasonable expansion capability, Imagine what one of these might do with a 2TB micro SDXC !! But recognize that the cost of a 2TB SDXC card, once they become available, will probably start out being more than the cost of your high end tablet !!

 

Posts 133
Orpheus Heyward | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 1 2013 12:46 PM

Thank you for the info.  I am really considering purchasing the new surface that is about to come out in the month of January. I am anxious to run logos 5 full version on a tablet. I appreciate all of the pointers you have given me to consider as I ponder this decision. All of you have been extremely helpful.

Posts 2111
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 2 2013 8:23 AM

Scott E. Mahle:
I would because the iPad simply runs an app (a cut down version of Logos) while the Surface Pro will run the full program

But will it run Logos well enough to be worth using?  We just do not know since no one has seen one do it yet.  The processor sounds adequate,  However, how much ram will this tablet have?  Four GB would be minimum to run Logos in a usable form, and it would take at least 6 GB to run it well.  Will Surface Pro have that much ram? 

We are getting closer to a tablet that can run the full Logos program, but whether Surface Pro will be the one remains to be seen.  Indeed, it might require some re-writing of Logos before this is practical.  After all, Logos was not written to be run on any tablet, no matter what the specs.  And Logos may have to wait until the right tablet is out there, with enough market saturation, to make such rewriting practical. 

I hope Surface Pro can do the job, but I remain skeptical.  At present a well equipped laptop is still the only practical portable way to run Logos 5.  That along with my iPad for extended reading and portability is my best solution.  Maybe 2013 will bring a better answer.

 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 1057
David J. Wilson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 2 2013 9:10 AM

Specs for the Pro say:

  • 3rd Gen Intel Core i5 Processor with Intel HD Graphics 4000
  • 4GB RAM—Dual Channel Memory

but as Michael implied, the whole system will have to be well engineered to run Logos 5 usefully.

 

 

Posts 2111
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 2 2013 9:52 AM

Thanks David for that information.  I was just trying to look up how much ram the Surface pro will have.

The processor does seem okay for Logos, but the ram is bare minimum to run it, in my opinion.  And what about graphics?  This tablet is a step forward, but I fear that the Surface Pro will amount to a premium price for a sub-par performance with regard to Logos.  Don't know that is certain, but it is my best guess.  Will be anxious to find out.

The really good news is that we can expect tablets to get better and better.  So running full Logos well on one is definitely going to happen.  Some day.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 1057
David J. Wilson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 2 2013 10:39 AM

A 10.6" 1920x1080 screen:

well the resolution seems to spec out as adequate - it is the same resolution currently running on the 25" monitor on my desktop, but will I be able to read the font without tweaking the font size for such a small screen - wonder if we can tweak font size in Logos specific to an individual machine or whether that feature gets rolled in for use on my desktop too..... ? Anyone know ?

Posts 40
Darren Loechel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 21 2013 2:01 PM

I am looking for a tablet, and was leaning towards a Windows 8 tablet to ensure that I can use the full functionality of Logos, but they are very expensive compared to Android or Apple tablets. Is there a comparison anywhere of what you get/lose by using the Android operating system?

There are a few other options other than the Windows Surface Pro like the Samsung ATIV Smart PC Pro (XE700T1C-A01AU) (i5 processor) and the Acer ICONIA W700-53314G12as  (i5 processor). Has anyone had a play with something like this? The Samsung has a baby brother with an Atom processor, but the review below confirms a comment above saying that you should get 128 Gb because of the space taken by programs. From your comments above, I wonder if the Atom would cope with Logos?

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/426130/20130121/acer-iconia-w700-review.htm

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Asus-Transformer-Pad-Infinity-TF700T-Tablet-MID.78316.0.html

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-12-26/news/36008071_1_tablet-dual-cameras-usb-port

 

Posts 11
David Record | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 27 2013 1:28 PM

I have a Acer W700-6465 that has 128gb hard drive and 4gb of ram.  I have L5 Bronze with the minimal cross grade and 50+ other books I have purchased separately over the years.  Selecting text with the touch screen is impossible so highlighting and copying text is difficult unless you have a mouse or touchpad.  Scrolling is also a challenge in some of the reference windows but the main bible and commentary windows you can scroll by swiping.  For the most part I love Logos on my windows 8 pro tablet.  Windows 8 seems to be a lot quicker than 7 was.  I have an i7 desktop with 8gb of ram running windows 7 that cannot keep up with the tablet running Windows 8. I do have a Bluetooth touchpad I can use when I want to select text and it works great.

Posts 40
Darren Loechel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 27 2013 8:31 PM

Thanks for letting us know David.

It sounds like the stylus provided with the Samsung ATIV Smart PC Pro would be very useful for highlighting text. How do we find out if Logos can cope with a stylus (what they call the S Pen)?

Posts 45
Steve Charles | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 30 2013 9:35 AM

I have a Samsung Ativ Smart PC Pro 700t with the i5 chip running at 1.7Ghz, 4Gb of RAM, and a 128Gb solid state drive.  The machine has an 11.6" 1920x1080 screen.  I have installed Logos 5 Portfolio plus extra books (roughly 5,500 resources!), and Logos runs extremely well.  I run the machine as a standalone tablet or with the included keyboard, and both work well.  In addition, I have installed Microsoft Office, Adobe Acrobat Professional and Photoshop CS6, CorelDraw X6, Microsoft Expression, Project and Visio.  I still have over 30Gb left.  In my humble opinion, this tablet is the one to get!

Posts 40
Darren Loechel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 30 2013 2:36 PM

Does the stylus work well for selecting and highlighting? I asked our Logos Tech team, and they hadn't had an opportunity to play with one yet.

Posts 45
Steve Charles | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 30 2013 2:59 PM

The stylus is very precise.  You're probably aware that it is very thin, unlike say a Kindle stylus, and it has the precision of a graphics tablet.  Highlighting and selecting are a breeze.  Another cool thing about the stylus is that a dot appears on the screen as you approach the screen before making contact.  This is great for making sure you touch the screen in the right spot.  The dot that appears on the screen prior to contact also acts like hovering the mouse.  So, for example, if you position the dot over a word, without touching the screen, the morphology of the word pops up!

Posts 926
Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 30 2013 3:26 PM

From a quick look at the Process Explorer utility from sysinternals.com (free utility: run it as administrator, right-click logos.exe and select properties for detailed monitoring) it doesn't look like Logos itself puts that much demand on memory. Much of that demand will probably come from Windows itself and .NET. I wonder how much Windows 8 itself uses and how much paging is necessary in 4GB RAM. Paging out to disk will be extremely fast on an SSD, so you won't see the big slowdown you would on a HDD when memory is swapped from memory to disk, and most of that will likely be libraries so there shouldn't be too much writing going on to wear out the SSD. I think. Has anyone done any detailed measurements on running Logos 5 on Windows 8 on 4GB RAM and an SSD?

This is starting to sound like an attractive option since Logos took all my money and I can no longer afford the hybrid tablet that I wanted.

L4 Platinum + L5 Portfolio + Verbum Capstone+
Dell XPS 8300: Core i7; 12GB RAM; AMD Radeon 6870 (Dual Monitor); Win 8 Pro x64
Samsung ATIV Smart PC Pro 700T: Core i5; 4GB RAM; Win 8 Pro x64
ASUS Nexus 7 | Samsung Galaxy Nexus

Posts 40
Darren Loechel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 30 2013 3:26 PM

G'day Steve,

What sort of tasks do you use the tablet for? I am still studying at Bible College, and thought this would help to get through all the reading(!), but also enable me to have the full version of Logos ready, while the keyboard would enable note taking in lectures. Could I also use it to preach from, and connect to a data projector for a Powerpoint presentation?

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