Collecting Bible References from searches

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Posts 6
Fredrick J. Long | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Dec 4 2009 9:49 AM

Hi,

I have a question that has bugged me for years, and prevents me from using exclusively Logos when I lecture and teach NT exegesis and introduction--it concerns quick searching of original language words and forms and then collecting SBL Handbook style Scripture references. Bibleworks allows me to do this in seconds.  Here is a video of my question: http://screencast.com/t/YjIxN2M4ND

Here is what I have found in Logos 4--the searching on lemma is not so easy--it presupposes students to know the lexical form, which they can find by hoovering over the word. But, then I cannot collect references for copying and pasting into notes, charts, reports, etc.: http://screencast.com/t/MGU3MDViYmQ 

I was really hoping that Logos 4 would be able to do this and rival the speed and ease of use of BibleWorks.

I would love to have someone show me how to do quick searching on predefined limits on a Greek word and how to collect biblical references in Logos 3 or 4 platform. I use this feature virtually daily in my teaching and research/writing.

Thanks,

Fredrick J. Long, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of New Testament
Asbury Theological Seminary

++2 Cor 12:9a "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness."++

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 4 2009 10:38 AM

First, I understand what you are trying to do, and there is one step that's not yet possible in Logos4, but we hope to see this back soon. What I'm talking about is the verse list, which was available in Logos3 and should be back in Logos4 soon.

To do what you want to do, that is search the lemma, from the right click menu on the Greek word, select the Lemma, then search this resource.

This will give you a verse list. Unfortunately it's not possible copy/paste or print this list at this time. And with a result (for this word) of 370 results in the entire NA27, and 145 in Pauline lit, it's too big to do a simple screen shot.

According to Logos' web site (see below "what's Missing") the verse list should come back in the 1st qtr of 2010, along with better printing support.

In the mean time this can be done in Libronix (Logos 3) (right-click>Selected Text>Lemma>Speed Search this resource). That will generate a search report. From there on the upper right is a yellow box called "Other Tools" choose "Export Results to verse list." This will generate a verse list, with some ("style") options. Choose the one you want, click anywhere in that window, select all (CTRL-A), copy (CTRL-C) and paste (CTRL-V) into your document. The results copy one line per verse (with the full book name), but you may be able to handle the output the way you want with a macro. I'm not saying it's exactly what you want, or that it's easier than that other software you're using, but it is possible.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 6
Fredrick J. Long | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 4 2009 12:17 PM

Richard, thanks.

I have done that before in Logos 3--the problem is that I don't need all the verses, etc. Just the references.  The problem is speed and the cumbersomeness of trying just to get the references. I use this a lot while researching, and a cannot imagine typing in all the references.  I usually will manipulate references into charts, or into categories, etc.

I hope that Logos can take a careful look at this and replicate what can be done easily and quickly in Bibleworks.

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 4 2009 12:29 PM

FredrickJamesLong:

Richard, thanks.

I have done that before in Logos 3--the problem is that I don't need all the verses, etc. Just the references.  The problem is speed and the cumbersomeness of trying just to get the references. I use this a lot while researching, and a cannot imagine typing in all the references.  I usually will manipulate references into charts, or into categories, etc.

I hope that Logos can take a careful look at this and replicate what can be done easily and quickly in Bibleworks.

I've never used Bibleworks, but seeing you use it to do what you want, and with what I'm able to do with Logos, there's not a good apples-to-apples solution.Even if there were, I can't think of an easy way in Logos4 to generate a report from a list of verses like this either. So even if I had your list of verses from Bibleworks, I could, I suppose, make a note file, copy the verses into the note file and hover over each verse to read them in my favorite Bible, but that would not be the same as creating a study document from a verse list.

Hopefully, one of the academic folks from Logos will catch this thread and chime in with a better solution.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 139
Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 4 2009 1:07 PM

Fredrick:

Richard's advice is the easiest way to do a lemma search from the surface text. As to predefined limits: the search that results from the right-click menu will search All Passages. If you want to limit the range, just replace All Passages with either a existing range, or define your own custom one. This video shows me defining a "pastorals" range (which will then be around for future use).

I have some more search details in a recent blog post, in case it's helpful.

Posts 6
Fredrick J. Long | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 7 2009 9:48 AM

Thanks for the time, Sean. My biggest concern was collecting references after the search was conducted. In BibleWorks, this is fast and easy, and I can pop the SBL formatted references into charts or footnotes with very little, if any, changes.

Fred

Posts 709
Russ Quinn | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 7 2009 9:54 AM

Fred,

I feel you pain, brother. I too have the need for this function regularly for writing (in my case a dissertation that is too soon due).

This is one of those simple functions that Logos could implement that would reduce the need for competitive software.

Russ

Posts 6
Fredrick J. Long | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 7 2009 11:28 AM

Russ,

Exactly. I literally need to have both BibleWorks and Logos open during my exegetical seminars--and that may be how it is. BUT, this inhibits the promotion of their software platform. 

Fred

Posts 139
Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 7 2009 2:55 PM

Tools for capturing and working with the list of verses resulting from a search (and much much more) are in the current beta, so you should see them released fairly soon.

Posts 709
Russ Quinn | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 7 2009 2:58 PM

Thanks for letting us know, Sean.

I'm very hopeful that Logos will continue to eliminate the reasons to use competitive software.

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 7 2009 3:06 PM

Sean Boisen:

Tools for capturing and working with the list of verses resulting from a search (and much much more) are in the current beta, so you should see them released fairly soon.

Sean, I have Beta 2 up and running now and can't see how to do this. I can't generate a simple verse list, or copy/paste a search result. Are you working with Beta 3?

 

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 7 2009 3:08 PM

Russ Quinn:
I'm very hopeful that Logos will continue to eliminate the reasons to use competitive software.

 

Russ, this has been said before but it's worth saying again...

+1

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 7 2009 3:29 PM

Richard,

"working with" doesn't seem to mean "printing"

Here is  a screen shot of the search and the resulting data sheet. A few things to be worked out.

I'd like the Datasheet to remember what columns are off and what is on BEFORE I search...turning off the columns I don't want is a huge hassle....

Secondly there is no printing capability.

third...It would be nice to have the option to "search this resource" in the right click and choose a search range..WTHOUT having to paste the search into the search window and then and change the search range

 

.

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 7 2009 3:35 PM

Richard DeRuiter:

Sean Boisen:

Tools for capturing and working with the list of verses resulting from a search (and much much more) are in the current beta, so you should see them released fairly soon.

Sean, I have Beta 2 up and running now and can't see how to do this. I can't generate a simple verse list, or copy/paste a search result. Are you working with Beta 3?

At the top of the search window select "graph results", at the top of that window select "export to excel.

Posts 709
Russ Quinn | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 7 2009 3:36 PM

Richard DeRuiter:

Sean, I have Beta 2 up and running now and can't see how to do this. I can't generate a simple verse list, or copy/paste a search result. Are you working with Beta 3?

Richard,

I might be wrong but my initial interpretation of Sean's statement was that he was talking about Beta 3.

Posts 139
Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 7 2009 3:37 PM

Richard DeRuiter:

Sean Boisen:

Tools for capturing and working with the list of verses resulting from a search (and much much more) are in the current beta, so you should see them released fairly soon.

Sean, I have Beta 2 up and running now and can't see how to do this. I can't generate a simple verse list, or copy/paste a search result. Are you working with Beta 3?

Stop the presses, i think i misspoke here Embarrassed

I'm not running any of the betas (don't tell Bob!), but what's in beta now is the Datasheet view (you can see Mike Heiser demonstrating it in this video). I mistakenly believed that also included the ability to save the results as well as sort/filter/group, but now i think i'm mistaken.I think the Datasheet view is very cool, but it's not the same as saving a list of verses: sorry!

But i can still fall back to the stated plan, which is releasing verselists in the first quarter of 2010.

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 7 2009 3:40 PM

Sean Boisen:

Richard DeRuiter:

Sean Boisen:

Tools for capturing and working with the list of verses resulting from a search (and much much more) are in the current beta, so you should see them released fairly soon.

Sean, I have Beta 2 up and running now and can't see how to do this. I can't generate a simple verse list, or copy/paste a search result. Are you working with Beta 3?

Stop the presses, i think i misspoke here Embarrassed

I'm not running any of the betas (don't tell Bob!), but what's in beta now is the Datasheet view (you can see Mike Heiser demonstrating it in this video). I mistakenly believed that also included the ability to save the results as well as sort/filter/group, but now i think i'm mistaken.I think the Datasheet view is very cool, but it's not the same as saving a list of verses: sorry!

But i can still fall back to the stated plan, which is releasing verselists in the first quarter of 2010.

The export to excel feature works for me. I would love it if it included the verse text.

Posts 5573
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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 7 2009 3:44 PM

Philip Spitzer:
The export to excel feature works for me. I would love it if it included the verse text.

Is "Export to Excel" in L4, or only in L3? If it's in L4 (B2?) tell me how it works.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 7 2009 3:47 PM

Run a bible search, select Graph at the top of the window, select the first graph, select "export to excel" from the top. I'm running L4 beta.

Posts 139
Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 7 2009 4:02 PM

... and now that i've been schooled a bit, i can confirm that this exports a list of references (and counts, or something else depending on the graph) to Excel. This is in the released (not beta) version of Logos 4.

However, i still suspect what most people want is to include the text as well, as Philip said. That's what i think will be released in the first quarter.

Now that we've confirmed i don't know what i'm talking about, i'm retreating back to silence :-)

 

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