Looking for a Traditional Evangelical Arminian Systematic Theology ...

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Posts 205
Stephen Paynter | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Dec 4 2009 12:16 PM

Hi everyone,

I wonder if anyone could recommend the best Arminian Systematic Theology around (especially if it is available in the Libronix format).

Thanks in anticipation.

Posts 5616
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 4 2009 12:45 PM

John Miley's seems to be recommended, but it's still on pre-pub: http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/4300

Oden's Systematic Theology also has a Arminian viewpoint: http://www.logos.com/products/details/3682
(Though he does present views on each topic from a historical perspective--mainly church fathers--before he gives his own conclusions).

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Posts 205
Stephen Paynter | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 4 2009 1:22 PM

Thanks, Miley's Systematic Theology looks exactly what I was looking for.

Posts 3741
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 4 2009 2:54 PM

Stephen Edward Paynter:
I wonder if anyone could recommend the best Arminian Systematic Theology around (especially if it is available in the Libronix format).

A number of years ago I put together a list of Wesleyan-Arminian resources I would like to see in Libronix.  Here is that list:

==================================================

Bible Commentaries

1. Wesleyan Bible Study Commentaries (2001 to Present) **

Currently being developed by the Wesleyan Publishing House (a division of The Wesleyan Church), the following volumes have been published:

Genesis (out of stock indefinitely)  Psalms
Proverbs                             John
Acts                                 Romans
Ephesians                            I and II Thessalonians
1 & 2 Timothy, Titus, and Philemon   James
                     Revelation (January 2005)


2. Wesleyan Bible Commentary (1966)  **

This six volume set, published by the Willam B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, covers the entire Bible.  I have found it to be a helpful resource to have at my side.


Theological Works

1. Miley, John (1892).  Systematic Theology  **

I am less familiar with Miley’s work, but Grudem says, “This is probably the most scholarly and extensive Arminian systematic theology ever written. Miley was a professor at Drew Theological Seminary, Madison, New Jersey.”   It is available on line at the Internet Archive:
       http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=Miley%20systematic%20theology%20AND%20collection%3Aamericana


2. Pope, William Burt (1880).  A Compendium Of Christian Theology.

Pope’s three volume work is both scholarly and easy to read.  It is grounded throughout in scripture.  This work is available on-line as PDF files at

     Volume 1: http://wesley.nnu.edu/wesleyctr/books/2401-2500/HDM2404.PDF
     Volume 2: http://wesley.nnu.edu/wesleyctr/books/2401-2500/HDM2405.PDF
     Volume 3: http://wesley.nnu.edu/wesleyctr/books/2401-2500/HDM2406.PDF

Wayne Grudem (author of Systematic Theology)  writes that, “This work  …   is one of the greatest systematic theologies written from a Wesleyan or Arminian perspective.”


3. Watson, Richard (1851).  Theological Institutes.

Watson’s work, published in two volumes, is a well-written work which, though very biblical, has a philosophical bent.  It available on-line at

     http://wesley.nnu.edu/wesleyan_theology/watson/index.htm

The on-line format is such that it cannot be searched and its formatting leaves much to be desired for reading.  This work is also available as a PDF file on an AGES CD.


4. Wiley, H. Orton (1940).  Christian Theology.

Orton’s is an important work because it was the standard Wesleyan theology text for Bible College and Seminary students for much of the latter half of the 20th century.  It, however, does not have the depth of either Watson or Pope (or, Grudem states, Miley).  It is much more a descriptive theology than a systematic theology.  It is available on line at  

    http://wesley.nnu.edu/holiness_tradition/wiley/index.htm


Study Bibles

1. Reflecting God Study Bible (1998)

This is the Wesleyan edition of the familiar NIV Study Bible.  Besides including a good set of study notes, this edition also includes a set for essays aimed at helping the believer live a holy life.  Though still available through Christian book distributors, it does not seem to be available from the Zondervan, the publisher.


  2. The Wesley Bible (1990)

Study notes from a Wesleyan perspective are the keynote of this NKJV bible.  This is still my standard Study Bible.

  3. The Wesley Study Bible (2009)

 A recent Wesleyan study Bible edited by Joel B. Green (from Fuller Seminary) and William H. Willimon (a United Methodist Bishop)

==================================================

 

Though this original list was created in 2004, I did add this last item to the list of original resources as I typed this note.  You will note that I marked several of the items in RED  **  to indicate that they are at some stage in the Pre-pub process.  I would like to see the remaining items in Libronix, I can only hope.

I hope this list helps.

Yours because His,

Floyd

PS I am not seeing the red or the  Arial Black font so I added asterisks to the three items that are in pre-pub.



 
 

 

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 3741
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 4 2009 7:20 PM

Floyd Johnson:
Miley, John (1892).  Systematic Theology  **

I just added a link to Miley's Systematic Theology at the "Internet Archive" - this makes all four of the commentaries in my list  accessible - though not via LOGOS as of yet.  I eagerly await the time when they may all be available.

Blessings,

Floyd

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 28
david the psalter | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 15 2010 1:20 PM

Try this great book

Grace, Faith & Holiness
 
A Wesleyan Systematic Theology
 

By: H. Ray Dunning

 

http://www.nph.com/nphweb/html/nph/itempage.jsp?itemId=083-411-2191

Posts 6
Nathan Lentfer | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 15 2010 1:51 PM

The Compendium of Christian Theology, 2nd ed., by William Burt Pope (3 Vols.) is in community pricing right now. I don't know when it will be released, but it seems to fit your desire for a "Traditional Evangelical Arminian Systematic Theology." See the link below for more information.

http://www.logos.com/communitypricing/details/5664

Posts 1537
Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 15 2010 5:36 PM

Todd Phillips:

John Miley's seems to be recommended, but it's still on pre-pub: http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/4300

Oden's Systematic Theology also has a Arminian viewpoint: http://www.logos.com/products/details/3682
(Though he does present views on each topic from a historical perspective--mainly church fathers--before he gives his own conclusions).

I thought Oden was a moderate calvinist.

Posts 5616
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 15 2010 6:54 PM

Blair Laird:

I thought Oden was a moderate calvinist.

 I'll let him speak for himself, and you can decide:

Due to the history of sin, humanity is in far worse shape than a stone or lump of clay, for sinners actively resist their salvation. The potter can mold the clay, but what if the “clay” has a determined will not to be molded? God does not force godliness or regenerating grace upon human beings, for if forced it could be neither truly godly nor truly just. God draws persons toward salvation by calling, illuminating, convicting, and enabling faith wherever there is an opening amid human resistances (John Climacus, The Ladder of Divine Ascent, step 4, sec. 121, p. 53). It is no simple work for the Spirit to create a pure heart and steadfast spirit, considering our recalcitrance (Ps. 51:10).
Thomas C. Oden, Life in the Spirit : Systematic Theology, Vol. III. (San Francisco, CA: HarperSanFrancisco, 1992), 165.

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Posts 3914
Forum MVP
Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 15 2010 7:09 PM

a lot of this depends on how you define these terms.  To some, "Arminian" almost means Pelagian.  To others a particular "Arminian" viewpoint almost seems Calvinist.

Jack Cottrell is essentially "arminian" and his "faith once for all", available in logos, will give you that perspective.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 1537
Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 15 2010 7:15 PM

Todd Phillips:

Blair Laird:

I thought Oden was a moderate calvinist.

 I'll let him speak for himself, and you can decide:

Due to the history of sin, humanity is in far worse shape than a stone or lump of clay, for sinners actively resist their salvation. The potter can mold the clay, but what if the “clay” has a determined will not to be molded? God does not force godliness or regenerating grace upon human beings, for if forced it could be neither truly godly nor truly just. God draws persons toward salvation by calling, illuminating, convicting, and enabling faith wherever there is an opening amid human resistances (John Climacus, The Ladder of Divine Ascent, step 4, sec. 121, p. 53). It is no simple work for the Spirit to create a pure heart and steadfast spirit, considering our recalcitrance (Ps. 51:10).
Thomas C. Oden, Life in the Spirit : Systematic Theology, Vol. III. (San Francisco, CA: HarperSanFrancisco, 1992), 165.

Moderate Calvinists also do not believe that God forces regeneration on people apart from faith. Moderate Calvinist holds that faith precedes regeneration and therefore God does not "drag people kicking and screaming into heaven". As Norman Geisler say's "forced love is not love at all, it is rape" So a person is saved by grace through faith.

However doing more research on Oden, it seems you may be right. He has done some work on Wesley etc... I just always thought of him more as a moderate calvinist, then an arminian.

Thanks for that quote.. God Bless..

Posts 1537
Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 15 2010 7:19 PM

Dan DeVilder:

a lot of this depends on how you define these terms.  To some, "Arminian" almost means Pelagian.  To others a particular "Arminian" viewpoint almost seems Calvinist.

Jack Cottrell is essentially "arminian" and his "faith once for all", available in logos, will give you that perspective.

Your absolutley right. Reformed Arminians pretty much stick with the work of Jacob arminius who never made a stance on eternal security. Modern day Arminians are more familiar with the work of Wesley and others.

I have seen a big difference between reformed arminian and arminian teachings

Posts 5616
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 15 2010 7:26 PM

Blair Laird:
Moderate Calvinists also do not believe that God forces regeneration on people apart from faith.

The reason I didn't say anything else is because "Moderate Calvinist" doesn't have a clear definition that I can point to or even understand.  Moderate in what? and how much can Calvinism be moderated before the term loses it's meaning?

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Posts 376
Dan Sheppard | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 15 2010 7:29 PM

Floyd Johnson:


2. Pope, William Burt (1880).  A Compendium Of Christian Theology.

Pope’s three volume work is both scholarly and easy to read.  It is grounded throughout in scripture.  This work is available on-line as PDF files at

     Volume 1: http://wesley.nnu.edu/wesleyctr/books/2401-2500/HDM2404.PDF
     Volume 2: http://wesley.nnu.edu/wesleyctr/books/2401-2500/HDM2405.PDF
     Volume 3: http://wesley.nnu.edu/wesleyctr/books/2401-2500/HDM2406.PDF

 

Strange - Arminian theology, coming from a Pope!

 

 

 

Posts 1537
Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 15 2010 7:38 PM

Todd Phillips:

Blair Laird:
Moderate Calvinists also do not believe that God forces regeneration on people apart from faith.

The reason I didn't say anything else is because "Moderate Calvinist" doesn't have a clear definition that I can point to or even understand.  Moderate in what? and how much can Calvinism be moderated before the term loses it's meaning?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moderate_Calvinism

This website will give you more information. Ive looked it over and it sums up moderate calvinism pretty well. Also you have a very good point. "moderate what" They seem to strike a balance being calvinistic in their teaching on sovereignty etc. However differing from calvinism on atonement (although they hold to atonement the way calvin taught it) and free will ( although their understanding of free will is not the ability to choose God apart from his grace. That is something which they deny. They are not pelegian, but free will being our ability to believe once God has drawn us apart from regeneration.)

I'll have to stop posting, as I believe I am hijacking the thread.

If you would like to discuss more I would be happy to talk with you in another forum, by email, or chat.

I think you are probably right on Oden though, I am probably wrong. I concluded that after seeing he wrote a book on Wesely

God Bless..

Posts 198
Bryan Brodess | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 16 2010 5:51 AM

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Moderate calvanists hold to these tenents:

·         Total Depravity:  maintains that man's depravity is “total.” Since the fall of Adam all men are born in sin with Adam's sin nature. There is no part of man's nature that was not affected by sin. Man is totally depraved, and unable to change his inherit sin nature. But total depravity does not mean total inability. Man's will is free to choose the gift of salvation. The basis or ground of human responsibility is human ability. Even though man does have a free will, he has no capacity for saving himself. God graciously draws people to Himself, but free will is the means by which salvation is received.

·         Unconditional Election: agree that salvation is an unconditional gift. The question is not whether there are any conditions for God giving salvation; but whether there are any conditions for man receiving salvation. Election is unconditional from the vantage point of the Giver, but there is one condition for the receiver. Faith is the condition for receiving salvation. Moderate Calvinism does not have to redefine the word “foreknowledge” in 1 Peter 1:2. Election is “according to” or “in harmony with” God's foreknowledge. God's election is neither based on His foreknowledge of man's free choice nor is His election exercised independent of it. There is no chronological or logical priority of God's election and God's foreknowledge.

·         Limited Atonement:   agrees with John Calvin who wrote, “Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and in the goodness of God is offered unto all men without distinction, His blood being shed not for part of the world only, but for the whole human race.” God sent the Son into the world that the world through Him might be saved (Jn. 3:17). That's why Jesus is referred to as the Savior of the world (Jn. 4:42; 1 Jn. 4:14). In dying for the whole world, Christ tasted death for every man (Heb. 2:9). Jesus is truly the Savior of all men (1 Tim. 4:10). Atonement is unlimited in scope in that the offer of salvation is for all men. Atonement is limited in effect in that only believers are truly saved.

·         Irresistible Grace:  maintains that saving faith is the God-ordained means for regeneration, and not the result of regeneration. Regeneration or the new birth takes place at the moment a person trusts in Christ and not before they trust in Christ. The scriptural order is first faith and then life.

·         Perseverance of the saints: teaches preservation of the saints as opposed to perseverance of the saints. The Biblical doctrine of Eternal Security teaches that the believer will be preserved by the grace of God. No saint will ever be lost (even if they die in a sinful state). The believer is eternally secure. Moderate Calvinists believe in assurance of salvation while on earth .

 

It would appear the difference between Moderate Calvinists and Arminians is one believes one can lose salvation. One does not..   Does anyone see any other differences?

Posts 1537
Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 16 2010 5:56 AM

Bryan Brodess:

 

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Moderate calvanists hold to these tenents:

·         Total Depravity:  maintains that man's depravity is “total.” Since the fall of Adam all men are born in sin with Adam's sin nature. There is no part of man's nature that was not affected by sin. Man is totally depraved, and unable to change his inherit sin nature. But total depravity does not mean total inability. Man's will is free to choose the gift of salvation. The basis or ground of human responsibility is human ability. Even though man does have a free will, he has no capacity for saving himself. God graciously draws people to Himself, but free will is the means by which salvation is received.

·         Unconditional Election: agree that salvation is an unconditional gift. The question is not whether there are any conditions for God giving salvation; but whether there are any conditions for man receiving salvation. Election is unconditional from the vantage point of the Giver, but there is one condition for the receiver. Faith is the condition for receiving salvation. Moderate Calvinism does not have to redefine the word “foreknowledge” in 1 Peter 1:2. Election is “according to” or “in harmony with” God's foreknowledge. God's election is neither based on His foreknowledge of man's free choice nor is His election exercised independent of it. There is no chronological or logical priority of God's election and God's foreknowledge.

·         Limited Atonement:   agrees with John Calvin who wrote, “Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and in the goodness of God is offered unto all men without distinction, His blood being shed not for part of the world only, but for the whole human race.” God sent the Son into the world that the world through Him might be saved (Jn. 3:17). That's why Jesus is referred to as the Savior of the world (Jn. 4:42; 1 Jn. 4:14). In dying for the whole world, Christ tasted death for every man (Heb. 2:9). Jesus is truly the Savior of all men (1 Tim. 4:10). Atonement is unlimited in scope in that the offer of salvation is for all men. Atonement is limited in effect in that only believers are truly saved.

·         Irresistible Grace:  maintains that saving faith is the God-ordained means for regeneration, and not the result of regeneration. Regeneration or the new birth takes place at the moment a person trusts in Christ and not before they trust in Christ. The scriptural order is first faith and then life.

·         Perseverance of the saints: teaches preservation of the saints as opposed to perseverance of the saints. The Biblical doctrine of Eternal Security teaches that the believer will be preserved by the grace of God. No saint will ever be lost (even if they die in a sinful state). The believer is eternally secure. Moderate Calvinists believe in assurance of salvation while on earth .

 

It would appear the difference between Moderate Calvinists and Arminians is one believes one can lose salvation. One does not..   Does anyone see any other differences?

Yes the other difference is on unconditional election. Arminians believe that election is based on foreknowledge. Moderate Calvinists do not believe it is based on Gods foreknowledge, also election is not done apart from the foreknowledge either. It is done in accordance with his foreknowledge.

Posts 198
Bryan Brodess | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 16 2010 6:10 AM

Blair Laird:

Yes the other difference is on unconditional election. Arminians believe that election is based on foreknowledge. Moderate Calvinists do not believe it is based on Gods foreknowledge, also election is not done apart from the foreknowledge either. It is done in accordance with his foreknowledge.

 Wow I did not know this. I guess this makes me neither calvanist, moderate calvanist or arminain..

lol....

Posts 198
Bryan Brodess | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 16 2010 6:28 AM

Blair Laird:

LOL">

New Category....

 

lol what am I?

 

An Arminian who believes in eternal security.

 

or a moderate who believes God chose, or elected us  based on his foreknowledge of who whould freely recieve his gift, or who would freely reject his gift..

 

Tongue Tied

 

I must be in a temporal purgatory..lol

 

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