Rejoice Christian Software out of business?

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Posts 2898
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 19 2013 7:13 PM

I certainly hate to hear that they may be going out of business.  I have bought a number of Logos / Libronix products from them over the years at great prices.  I will miss them if they are out of business.

Most of my library has been bought direct from Logos, but there are times that Rejoice has had a much better price.  They helped me build my Logos library.  I appreciate them.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 19314
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 19 2013 7:19 PM

Michael Childs:

I certainly hate to hear that they may be going out of business.  I have bought a number of Logos / Libronix products from them over the years at great prices.  I will miss them if they are out of business.

Most of my library has been bought direct from Logos, but there are times that Rejoice has had a much better price.  They helped me build my Logos library.  I appreciate them.

Maybe that's why they went out of business. Perhaps their bargain prices were not a sustainable business model. Logos prices do seem too high sometimes, but they know what it takes to afford to keep in business, and I would like to see them stay in business as long as I'm alive and still able to use my computer.

Posts 2898
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 19 2013 7:41 PM

Rosie Perera:
I would like to see them stay in business as long as I'm alive and still able to use my computer

I agree with that, and I have spent thousands of dollars with Logos over the years.  And I will continue to do so. 

However, I am also grateful for Rejoice Christian Software.  They helped me build my library, and that, in turn, led me to buy additional products from Logos.  I assume that what I bought from Rejoice to some degree profited Logos, too.  The company that produced a Logos compatible CD obviously paid for the right to produce a Logos compatible cd.  Seems like a win / win to me.

 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 19 2013 7:59 PM

Super Tramp:

DMB:
Maybe Michael keeled over and no one noticed (no offence but things happen).

Somebody is still listing under his eBay account.

 

On further investigation the eBay account appears to have been abandoned. There are 17 negative feedbacks dating back to November. It is a sad ending to a fine seller. 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 19314
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 19 2013 8:00 PM

Michael Childs:
The company that produced a Logos compatible CD obviously paid for the right to produce a Logos compatible cd.  Seems like a win / win to me.

Should be, but maybe Rejoice didn't charge enough of a mark-up over what Logos was charging them. They might still have been able to make a nice deal for users, but if Logos's own margins are tight enough, it would be hard for a third party to undercut them and stay in business. Which leads me to suspect that Logos is not in fact overcharging us. And Rejoice and others like them probably don't really have an affordable way to do what they were doing. It's too bad, but that's how business works.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 19 2013 8:08 PM

I'm thinking maybe someone indeed passed away. The negatives on eBay run the gamut of products and are not exclusively software. It looks like the business ramrod is gone and the survivors don't know anything about running the business. 

Hope I'm wrong but a guy with 19,000+ positives does not get 17 negatives all at once unless something happened.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 998
David Carter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 19 2013 8:11 PM

Super Tramp:

Super Tramp:

DMB:
Maybe Michael keeled over and no one noticed (no offence but things happen).

Somebody is still listing under his eBay account.

 

On further investigation the eBay account appears to have been abandoned. There are 17 negative feedbacks dating back to November. It is a sad ending to a fine seller. 

This is odd - the eBay account I associate as being operated by Rejoice has 48 positive reviews for this month and is definitely not abandoned

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 19 2013 8:26 PM

David Carter:
This is odd - the eBay account I associate as being operated by Rejoice has 48 positive reviews for this month and is definitely not abandoned

You are right. I don't know what I clicked on but I now see 48 positives since January 20th. The 17 negatives ended around the 20th. So maybe, and hopefully, the bad stretch was only a temporary hiccup while they finished relocating. I once lost internet access for 3 weeks during an ice storm that took down all the power lines in eastern Oklahoma (2001?) I doubt they had an ice storm in Florida.

 

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Posts 2898
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 20 2013 7:02 PM

Rosie Perera:
it would be hard for a third party to undercut them and stay in business. Which leads me to suspect that Logos is not in fact overcharging us.

I certainly was not implying that Logos is overcharging.  I was just thankful for the bargains that Rejoice provided me on resources like Martin Luther's Works and Jame Boice's commentaries.

I always buy from Logos first, all things being equal, because I want to keep Logos in business.  But sometimes Rejoice has had Logos products no longer sold by Logos at the time I purchased them.  And sometimes the price was considerably better, and I don't want me to go out of business either.   Wink

I would hesitate to accuse Rejoice of poor business practices.  After all, they have stayed in business for a number of years now.  And that in a very bad recession that is putting lots of small businesses out of business.  We don't know the circumstances of what may be happening with Rejoice, and have no basis to judge their business skill..  I don't know for certain that they are out of business.  As Mark Twain once said, "Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated."  So maybe we should wait and see.

However, I remain thankful  to Rejoice for years of bargains, many of them in the Logos format.  I am also extremely thankful to the Logos for making the best Bible software in the world.

I think that is more than enough for me to say about that.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 3747
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2013 8:45 AM

Michael Childs:

I would hesitate to accuse Rejoice of poor business practices.  After all, they have stayed in business for a number of years now.  And that in a very bad recession that is putting lots of small businesses out of business.  We don't know the circumstances of what may be happening with Rejoice, and have no basis to judge their business skill..  I don't know for certain that they are out of business.  As Mark Twain once said, "Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated."  So maybe we should wait and see.

However, I remain thankful  to Rejoice for years of bargains, many of them in the Logos format.  I am also extremely thankful to the Logos for making the best Bible software in the world.

Yes

I emailed Michael (don't know him--used the company email address) a link to this thread. If he responds, we'll know....

 

Grace & Peace,
Bill


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Posts 6
Spurgeon | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2013 12:11 PM

Any updates? Made a purchase about a year ago but never arrived. Tried reaching out several times without any response. Got an email a while back saying they were in the process of moving and so response is lagging. Really not sure what's going on over there. 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2013 1:21 PM

Spurgeon:
Any updates? Made a purchase about a year ago but never arrived. Tried reaching out several times without any response.

No. But he is still selling on eBay.  I just don't know.

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Posts 397
John | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2013 6:06 PM

Raymond Urne:

Do this company still exist? And how can I come in touch with them (no phone number on their website)?

  The website is still there taking orders. But it looks like CBD  has better pricing on older Libronix titles. At CBD R.C. Sprouls Library for example is 81% off (14.99).  
Posts 397
John | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2013 6:32 PM

Rosie Perera:

Which leads me to suspect that Logos is not in fact overcharging us.

Yes, they are overcharging. The business model is essentially to scan or electronically convert existing works (that Logos did not create), and then to resell electronic copies, of which there is essentially no cost to duplicate ... at the same price as a retail printed copy which involves cost to reproduce and distribute.

The only costs which Logos has to absorb which traditional publishing companies do not have is the maintenance of the decrypting/viewer software (which in the past they claimed would always be given away free, but now that issue has become very muddy), which I might add they do an absolutely terrible job at. It is the buggiest and most crash-prone software I have ever seen.

The only time you get a good deal from Logos is if you buy a large package that happens to be on sale, and even then you have to take into consideration that in orderto get that deal, you must agree to buy a bunch of useless and practically worthless titles that they have bundled in with the titles you really wanted.

On judgment day I personally wouldn't want to be a publishing company executive who charged Christians $30, $40, or $50 to "unlock" a Bible.

The software company being discussed was not competition to Logos. They were simply reselling retail packages which were likely closed out and discontinued when Logos eliminated all of their third party publishers.

 

 

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2013 7:27 PM

John:

Rosie Perera:

Which leads me to suspect that Logos is not in fact overcharging us.

Yes, they are overcharging. The business model is essentially to scan or electronically convert existing works (that Logos did not create), and then to resell electronic copies, of which there is essentially no cost to duplicate ... at the same price as a retail printed copy which involves cost to reproduce and distribute.

The only costs which Logos has to absorb which traditional publishing companies do not have is the maintenance of the decrypting/viewer software (which in the past they claimed would always be given away free, but now that issue has become very muddy), which I might add they do an absolutely terrible job at. It is the buggiest and most crash-prone software I have ever seen.

The only time you get a good deal from Logos is if you buy a large package that happens to be on sale, and even then you have to take into consideration that in orderto get that deal, you must agree to buy a bunch of useless and practically worthless titles that they have bundled in with the titles you really wanted.

On judgment day I personally wouldn't want to be a publishing company executive who charged Christians $30, $40, or $50 to "unlock" a Bible.

The software company being discussed was not competition to Logos. They were simply reselling retail packages which were likely closed out and discontinued when Logos eliminated all of their third party publishers.

 

 

Peace to you, John!                          and ....                  Always Joy in the Lord!          *smile*

             I greet you as a Christian Brother and urge you to try to be a little more careful with your words that our "ministry be not blamed"!  I think with the many thousands of persons viewing these Logos Forums and reading the many posts, it is important for all of us to "speak" positively, with our words properly seasoned.  I definitely believe that this also is a "ministry" that God has entrusted to His Believers.  Wouldn't it be great if the world said of us as in some respects it did with the early Christians, "Behold how they love one another."!!!

                 Truly do I regret coming across here as judgmental; however, this last post of your comes across to me as venomous rather than seasoned with salt.  It comes across to me vindictive rather than helpful to anybody.          I know that for a long time now you have despised the Logos Bible Software Organisation -- but again - another "however"(!)         ...   we followers of Jesus need the Holy Spirit of God to help us speak the truth in love  ....             so I very gently urge you to please just leave some of your bitter feelings toward Logos alone    .....    and make whatever point you need to make without being nasty.  It's truly unfortunate that the situation got to where it is; but, at least let us get past it.

                      I am a great Logos fan and have been for 20 years this spring!   You are most definitely NOT  a Logos fan.  Could we please just leave it like that, John? 

God is most certainly going to handle Judgment Day the way He wants to, eh???

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2013 7:29 PM

John:
On judgment day I personally wouldn't want to be a publishing company executive who charged Christians $30, $40, or $50 to "unlock" a Bible.

The last time I looked at the Bibles available in Logos they all seemed to be $10 each. I don't know what special Bibles you have been looking at. The NIV likes to charge an extra $10 above what others charge. I'd hate to be them on Judgement Day. Indifferent Also, all those Bible book stores that charge $70 to $120 for those study Bibles are really gonna get it! Devil

Seriously, does your church get free electricity from the power company? I'd hate to be them on Judgement Day.....

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Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2013 8:00 PM

Super Tramp:

John:
On judgment day I personally wouldn't want to be a publishing company executive who charged Christians $30, $40, or $50 to "unlock" a Bible.

The last time I looked at the Bibles available in Logos they all seemed to be $10 each. I don't know what special Bibles you have been looking at. The NIV likes to charge an extra $10 above what others charge. I'd hate to be them on Judgement Day. Indifferent Also, all those Bible book stores that charge $70 to $120 for those study Bibles are really gonna get it! Devil

Seriously, does your church get free electricity from the power company? I'd hate to be them on Judgement Day.....

While I personally believe judgement day will be about far different things then the career I hold I personally wouldn't mind being a software developer on judgement day that enriched people's Bible Studies as much as Logos has enriched mine.

Posts 397
John | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2013 8:21 PM

Super Tramp:

Also, all those Bible book stores that charge $70 to $120 for those study Bibles are really gonna get it! Devil

Seriously, does your church get free electricity from the power company? I'd hate to be them on Judgement Day.....

  The Printed Bibles in bookstores cost money to print, money to store, money to transport, and money to retail to customers.   Until the stores have a "replicator" like the ones on star trek, where they can reproduce a printed book out of thin air, your analogy is one of apples to oranges.   Same with the power company. The power company cannot generate 1000 kilowatts of power, and then make 100 million copies of it at no cost. If they could, the public and likely the government would not allow them to continue to charge the same rates as they had previously.   None of the Biblical authors attempted to profit and become wealthy from copyrights on their work.
Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2013 8:29 PM

John:

Super Tramp:

Also, all those Bible book stores that charge $70 to $120 for those study Bibles are really gonna get it! Devil

Seriously, does your church get free electricity from the power company? I'd hate to be them on Judgement Day.....

  The Printed Bibles in bookstores cost money to print, money to store, money to transport, and money to retail to customers.   Until the stores have a "replicator" like the ones on star trek, where they can reproduce a printed book out of thin air, your analogy is one of apples to oranges.   Same with the power company. The power company cannot generate 1000 kilowatts of power, and then make 100 million copies of it at no cost. If they could, the public and likely the government would not allow them to continue to charge the same rates as they had previously.   None of the Biblical authors attempted to profit and become wealthy from copyrights on their work.

My understanding is that the printing costs are a relatively minor part of the cost of a book.  I'm certainly no expert, though. however what I am pretty certain of is that a bookshelf in the store costs a lot less then servers and redundant systems. and a store clerk receives a smaller paycheck then a server maintainer. Also, once a book is in your hand there is no responsibility on the part of the publisher to make sure the book continues to work on constantly updated systems. I also doubt the publisher receives nearly as many technical support calls as Logos does.
Posts 397
John | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2013 9:07 PM

Milford Charles Murray:

Truly do I regret coming across here as judgmental; however, this last post of your comes across to me as venomous rather than seasoned with salt.  It comes across to me vindictive rather than helpful to anybody.

Sorry Charles but I just cannot seem to get to that place of political correctness and sensitivity where you live. I have something within me that always wants to tell the truth. I guess me and John the Baptist have something in common. If you had been there to advise him, he might have avoided prison and martyrdom. But like the venomous guy he was, he insisted on offending people by telling them the truth Yes

Not so long ago, God used the printing press to make his word freely available to all men. Today men are using copyright laws to lock it up again. If you pay their price, an arbitrarily set price that in no way reflects the costs of reproduction, they will unlock it for you.

Men using their copyright "rights" have eliminated the 1984 NIV Bible, which was the most readable and clear English Bible ever produced. It had close to a 70% market share among evangelicals. Overnight it disappeared. It is the same legal system which is being used to do harm to the Bible which provides Logos its profits. Only in the minds of men can a person or company "own" a Bible translation. Or any other theological work which they did not author for that matter.

It is interesting to me Charles that your appeal is to the scriptures in your defense of Logos (and attack against me). But in reality the scripture in no way supports what Logos is doing. Period. The Bible teaches equity. Not exploitation of technology to profit from your "brethren". Logos has its defense in the laws of man, not in the practice of the church. And if you ask them, they will not hide this fact. They will readily admit that they are a "for-profit" business. They are not a charity and they certainly are not a Christian Ministry. If you want to see Bible software produced by someone who understands Christian ministry, check out eSword. Logos is NOT.

Crossway has done the right thing in making the ESV translation a free download. And the ESV study Bible is free to use online. Logos wants $10 for the "free" ESV Bible and $50 for the "free" study Bible. Many other new translations are following this path. I am sure Logos will continue to charge for them too.

Freely you have received; freely give. - Matthew 10:8

 

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