English-Greek dictionary

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Posts 190
Paul Chatfield | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Jan 19 2013 2:55 PM

There are a few English-Greek dictionaries that have been in Community Pricing for a while and I'd love to see them come through.  

One is Berry's 1158 page work at $12 http://www.logos.com/product/15774/the-classic-greek-dictionary-in-two-parts-greek-english-and-english-greek ,

another is Yonge's 536 page work at $6 http://www.logos.com/product/15746/an-english-greek-dictionary and

another is Fradersdoff's 649 page version at $8 http://www.logos.com/product/15750/a-copious-phraseological-english-greek-lexicon.

 

Q: Why on earth would you want an English-Greek dictionary?

A: To consider alternative words available to the author that he overlooked in choosing the words he did.  

For example consider the Greek word epi (a notoriously difficult word to translate).  When wondering whether it might be translated 'before' (an unusual but possible translation), it is helpful to consider what other prepositions could have used instead.  A quick consultation of an English-Greek dictionary might suggest pro.  So could pro have been used instead?  Indeed, if we noted that pro had already been used in the surrounding context of the passage, then the change of preposition in this context from pro to epi would suggest that the author is using a specific meaning of epi not covered by pro and therefore suggest it shouldn't be translated before.  In short, the use of a basic English-Greek dictionary helps our critical analysis of the text, not always, not even often, but at times it could be very helpful.

Guys, these dictionaries are all cheap.  Have a look at them and take your pick.  Indeed, now that I've started this thread on dictionaries, it might be useful for more knowledgeable people in Greek to comment on which dictionaries they think are the best out of these 3 to help guide me and others :)

Thanks  

Paul

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 19 2013 4:37 PM

Didn't know about these till you brought them up here.

I'm in.

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 19 2013 6:13 PM

Paul Chatfield:
There are a few English-Greek dictionaries that have been in Community Pricing for a while and I'd love to see them come through.  

You are aware that you can do a search on a Greek lexicon by searching the glosses, are you not?  E.g., I can search for "before" (to use your example) and bring up all entries where "before" is a gloss for a Greek word.  On the other hand, I've been dying to translate my NRSV into Greek.  Wink

george
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יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 190
Paul Chatfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 19 2013 11:52 PM

George Somsel:

You are aware that you can do a search on a Greek lexicon by searching the glosses, are you not?  E.g., I can search for "before" (to use your example) and bring up all entries where "before" is a gloss for a Greek word.  On the other hand, I've been dying to translate my NRSV into Greek.  Wink

I know about using the Louw-Nida semantic domains - is this what you're referring to or is there another approach?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 20 2013 1:23 AM

I think George is speaking of searching a Greek lexicon for an English word which will usually be a gloss.

You can also run a BWS on an English word (gloss).

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 20 2013 2:04 AM

MJ. Smith:
I think George is speaking of searching a Greek lexicon for an English word which will usually be a gloss.

more accurately, searching in the Gloss Text field instead of All Text.

Dave
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 20 2013 2:15 AM

thanks for the correction - I should have thought of it but ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 190
Paul Chatfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 22 2013 2:09 AM

User friendly Greek resources.  BUMP.

Posts 1991
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 22 2013 1:39 PM

i bid on the max bid available on every books you've linked. (I always bid to the max available always)

Posts 514
Daniel Yoder | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 22 2013 4:19 PM

These are some valuable resources and they could all use a bidding boost. 

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 22 2013 4:28 PM

Daniel Yoder:

These are some valuable resources and they could all use a bidding boost. 

Are you planning to compose in Greek?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 514
Daniel Yoder | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 22 2013 4:50 PM

George Somsel:

Daniel Yoder:

These are some valuable resources and they could all use a bidding boost. 

Are you planning to compose in Greek?

I suppose I would use the Greek to English section more than the English to Greek, although it would be interesting to write in Greek.  I will be taking a 10 credit hour Greek class this fall and would like as many resources as possible. 

Posts 136
Mark Hoffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 24 2013 7:18 AM

Two things:

  • To get English to Greek, I concur w/ those who suggest looking in a Greek>English lexicon. To be specific, Use a Basic search, choose BDAG, and instead of "All Text," choose "Formal Equivalent." Type the English word, and you should get a good range.
  • So, for BDAG, use "Formal Equivalent"
  • In Louw-Nida, Lexham Analytical Lexicon, and EDNT, use "Gloss Text."
  • In intermediate LS, you need to use All Text
  • For TDNT, you pretty much need to use All Text and sort through results
  • Rather than working on old English > Greek lexicons, I've suggested to Logos that they get the rights to this book: Danker's 2009, Concise Greek-English Lexicon of the NT. For my students who can't afford BDAG or EDNT, who are looking for something that quickly indicates idioms and provides reliable glosses and don't want to plow through the TDNT, who need something more than the Barclay, and who want something w/ more of a lexical/grammatical basis than what the Lexham or Friberg Analytical Lexicons offer, I think this is a great resource.

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 24 2013 1:35 PM

Mark, I agree, I'm also supporting a suggestion for that lexicon: Lexicons. I think Logos has too few reference works, and in the June 2013 Logos user poll I wished that they offer more reference works, such as Danker's lexicon.
(One very important reference work, best in its category, is stuck in pre-pub: New Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (5 vols.) and competing softwares such as Olivetree have a much higher price (coming to Accordance too but I don't know the price)):

Mark Hoffman:
I've suggested to Logos that they get the rights to this book: Danker's 2009, Concise Greek-English Lexicon of the NT. For my students who can't afford BDAG or EDNT, who are looking for something that quickly indicates idioms and provides reliable glosses and don't want to plow through the TDNT, who need something more than the Barclay, and who want something w/ more of a lexical/grammatical basis than what the Lexham or Friberg Analytical Lexicons offer, I think this is a great resource.

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Posts 190
Paul Chatfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 26 2013 1:35 AM

Hi Mark - thanks for your thoughts - a more uptodate lexicon suggestion is helpful.  And thank you for the method suggested to work on English-Greek, I hadn't come across it before.  I wonder how robust it is though.  I tested it on 2 areas of interest where I've wanted the English-Greek:

1) seeking a selection of Greek prepositions that might be used to translate an English one e.g. "at".  This produced loads of results and so wasn't helpful.

2) seeking how the verb "preach" is used in Greek.  Firstly I had to change 'Formal Equivalent' to 'Translation Equivalent'.  This was better as it then gave me 8 results of which 3 are considered 'preach': anangello, evangelizo, kerusso (certainly important ones), but missed out some others that other authors consider preaching or at least very closely related to it e.g. katangelo, didasko, martureo.

As you clearly know Logos much better than me :) are there ways you could improve on 1 or 2 without the aid of a good English-Greek lexicon?

Posts 136
Mark Hoffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 26 2013 8:12 AM

Hi, Paul!

Oooo.... Greek prepositions that could be rendered as "at"... that would indeed be a tough one. I suppose you could work through a lot of hits doing the reverse Greek > English, but here may be an instance where an English > Greek lexicon might be more helpful.

Using your example of "preach," I did a little more checking in BDAG.

  • Using "All Text" > 195 results in 178 articles (most of these are not useful results)
  • Using "Extended Definition" > 0 results
  • Using "Formal Equivalent" > 0 results
  • Using "Surface Text" > 61 results in 57 articles (some of these are what you want)
  • Using "Translation Equivalent" > 24 results in 22 articles (This is the one you probably want, but you would still have to sort through it all to come up with αναγγελλω, ευαγγελιζω, κηρυσσω, ορθοτομεω?

Using the Lexham Analytical Lexicon and searching "Gloss Text," I only get 2 results: κηρυγμα, κηρυσσω (same results using "All Text")

Using Louw-Nida:

  • All Text > 82 results in 61 articles
  • Gloss Text > 3 results in 3 articles: κηρυγμα, κηρυσσω, προκηρυσσω
  • Heading Text > 2 results in 2 articles which lead to the links for the domains on Preach, Proclaim and preach/er/ing >> This actually is quite helpful. It will get you to the domain of "Communication," and you can see distinctions between words for inform, announce, assert, declare, teach, speak truth, preach, proclaim, witness, testify, etc.
  • Surface Text > 79 results in 58 articles

CONCLUSIONS:

Unless you are indeed looking for a very specific English word to render in Greek, I think your best resources is searching Louw-Nida and finding the domain. That will help you find the various nuances and the Greek words associated with them.

Louw-Nida comes w/ the Biblical Languages Library or w/ Platinum or higher in Logos and is $40 or so otherwise. So, if you don't have a good English-Greek lexicon?

Use Louw-Nida at Laparola.

OR, how about trying Google Translate! Here's what it suggests (note the modern and ancient spellings):

English - Greek
κηρύττω
    verb
        1. κηρύττω
        2. κηρύσσω
        3. νουθετώ

Posts 190
Paul Chatfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 27 2014 7:45 AM

Encouraging bidding on Greek resources - this one in particular is on about 50%.  Think it could be particularly useful for the English-Greek rather than the Greek-English.  It will give you a quick list of other Greek words that can be used to translate the word you're thinking of.  

https://www.logos.com/product/15774/the-classic-greek-dictionary-in-two-parts-greek-english-and-english-greek

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