Annual budget for Catholic resources?

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Sleiman | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Feb 5 2013 7:44 AM

A question particularly to the Logos staff especially those with inside information about up and coming Catholic/Orthodox resources.

Let's say that one is to order each and every new English Catholic/Orthodox volume (leaving the other languages out of the budget for now) for the next few years. What would be a rough but reasonable annual budget?

A- $2000 to $3000?

B- $3,000 to $5,000?

C-$5,000 to $10,000?

D- More? Surprise

I'm not expecting an accurate answer, in fact i would be grateful for even indulging me with a reply. But an indication would certainly help. Even if you say something like either B or C, it would still be helpful.

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Hapax Legomena | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 5 2013 9:09 AM

I doubt anyone from Logos will answer your question, but I suggest you budget for "D".

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 5 2013 2:41 PM

That's a very unique answer, but a good one. 'D'. After I got on the Catholic publisher mailing lists, I couldn't believe just how many books there are available (I'm talking NEW ones). I'd assume if Verbum goes well, 'D' will be the understatement.  And very good authors too, by the way.

I'm probably going to get badly clobbered, but as Logos broadens its appeal, more accurate classing of resources I suspect is going to be unavoidable. There's a LOT of books!


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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 5 2013 2:46 PM

My answer, unfortunately, is already known:

E - more than I can afford

Crying

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 5 2013 5:47 PM

MJ. Smith:

My answer, unfortunately, is already known:

E - more than I can afford

Crying

I share your pain MJ.

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 5 2013 6:09 PM

TO:  MJ. Smith,   Lynden Williams,  me,  And all others in the ‘E’ class

 Just take the best that fit our needs and we will do fine.

 But there are some in CP and Pre-pub that need to move or we are not going to get the next generation of users  [no resources: no customers; no one biding on CP to bring the price down]   

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Sleiman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 6 2013 8:24 AM

Reasons for my question:

1- I want to keep the higher authority on domestic affairs in my household informed and approving.

2- It is (almost) always cheaper to purchase while in prepub or community pricing and it's hard to budget when I (mostly) don't know when a work will be available and charged to the account.

It seems that most of you are basically saying almost the same thing: it's probably going to be something more than $10k or at least more than what most can afford anyway. But while it seems that this is obvious to many of you, it's not to me (yet).

For example, I have been a Logos customer for just over a year now (a newbie I know) but my annual spending was a little over $3,000 and I currently own 'almost' all of the Logos catholic library (plus a little more). Of course, this does not include prepubs and community pricing bids but is actual orders summary in one year (thanks to bundles, packages, discounts, prepubs etc). If the coming year is double or even triple in volume? We're still in C.

Because of my lack of experience like many of you veterans, I don't have a feel to how fast the general overall library have been growing in the past 2 or 3 years. This can be an indication (or not who knows!). If you can share your experience (without necessarily having to spell out $ spent, this would also be helpful).

The question can also be rephrased as follows: What is the general expected Catholic library growth in relation to what is currently available? Will it likely double, triple, quadruple or even exponentially grow?

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 6 2013 9:05 AM

Sleiman:
The question can also be rephrased as follows: What is the general expected Catholic library growth in relation to what is currently available? Will it likely double, triple, quadruple or even exponentially grow?

I don't think even Logos can answer this one. Sad I would guess "exponentially." While that may sound like good news it can work against you when a floodgate of Pre-Pubs opens and you have to do a "Sophie's Choice" number on your order list. It can be painful buying a resource  at list price knowing you could have had it for 70% cheaper.  

Several factors effect the production output. The raw format of the resource matters. Some can arrive in digital form and others have to be scanned/typed. The working relationship Logos has with the publisher can also expedite production. I have also seen some resources priced higher than customers are willing to pay. They don't fare well in Pre-Pub.

All that being said, $10,000 per year should get you most of them unless Bob has a night shift in the book scanning department. Sleep Time

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Hapax Legomena | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 6 2013 9:09 AM

Another observation/suggestion.  Buy only what you need now.  I bought pretty much every Catholic related resource through mid 2011.  At that point, my ability to buy everything was constrained by reality.  I had to let some pre-pub orders (that I really wanted) go.  I was able to get nearly everything back I wanted (at a price less than the pre-pub price) by upgrading to Verbum Capstone.  This strategy going forward has some risk (who knows when Logos 6 will be released -- 3 more years? -- who knows what the packages will contain?) but it may result in the library you want at a lower price.

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Andrew Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 6 2013 9:11 AM

I hope I don't come across as vague or evasive, but the honest answer is that we don't know. Our goal is to get as many important books as possible into the system. There are something like 32,000 books in Logos format right now, but only a fraction of those are Catholic/Orthodox. There are, of course, tens of thousands of such books that we would like to make. We will be added as many as possible, as quickly as possible. We want to get to a point where the library is so extensive and complete that one can almost always find what one is looking for-- this will, no doubt, take quite some time. Perhaps the best answer I can give is that we will be seeing more books this year than last year.

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BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 6 2013 9:12 AM

MJ. Smith:

E - more than I can afford

Crying

I'm right there with you.... at well UNDER the amount even for answer A....

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Bill


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Sleiman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 6 2013 4:25 PM

Andrew, thanks for your reply. You're not coming across as evasive since your reply was expected of course. On my end, I also don't want to come across as pushy or anything like that but there's no harm of asking anyway right? so here's a follow up question or two: Since you said that:

Andrew Jones:
We will be added as many as possible, as quickly as possible.
How much is "as many and as quickly as possible" roughly?

If you had the OK from publishers on the books that you want to offer on Logos with no reservation; how much can Logos realistically churn out in a course of one year? This will establish the uppermost possible limit of the budget.

Maybe over-flowing your target Catholic/Orthodox market with too many books too soon is not an issue, at least yet? 

My conundrum as you might appreciate is that (like many others I'm sure) there are many books that I like to have - but do not really need - on prepub and community pricing. However, I know that more needed Catholic books are just waiting to be released this year (with Liturgical and Ignatius on board) and I don't want to eat up my budget on less important stuff (from a personal point of view of course).

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 6 2013 6:17 PM

My memory may be wrong but I think when L4 was released Bob P. put the goal at 40,000 a year ... that may have included Vyrso.

My suspicion would be that Logos will continue to expand Catholic resources quickly at least until they can provide solid support for seminarians and catechists.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 6 2013 6:33 PM

MJ. Smith:
My memory may be wrong but I think when L4 was released Bob P. put the goal at 40,000 a year ... that may have included Vyrso.

Was that 40,000 new books or $40,000 cost in new titles?

EDIT: just surmised it was 40,000 books.   Embarrassed

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 7 2013 11:41 AM

MJ. Smith:

My answer, unfortunately, is already known:

E - more than I can afford

Crying

Yes

Sleiman:
2- It is (almost) always cheaper to purchase while in prepub or community pricing and it's hard to budget when I (mostly) don't know when a work will be available and charged to the account.

If I hadn't bought a single Catholic prepub between the Library Builder and Capstone I would have saved hundreds of dollars, quite possibly more than a thousand. So I don't buy that argument any more. 

What I consider when I'm thinking of ordering is things like:

Yes I really really want it.
Yes I need it as soon as possible.
Yes It's an important reference work of some kind.
Yes The price is too good to be missed.

No It's only 10-20% off. My sales rep can probably give me that if I want it later.
No It's only $1-2 off. Better to wait and see if I really need it.
No It's too expensive for its value to me. I'll pick it up if there's a good enough sale later.
No It seems like the kind of thing that will very likely be included in 'the next Capstone', and I'm willing to both wait, and take the risk of being wrong.

And by now, half the Catholic resources don't even reach the "thinking of ordering" stage. There's just too many. 

Remember: even if you could afford every Catholic book they publish, you can't possibly find time to read them. So you don't actually need them. (Yes, that's for myself as well...)

Talking about letting things go: Michael Barber Collection (2 vols.) is shipping in a week. Should I change my mind and add it?

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Sleiman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 7 2013 12:49 PM

David Ames:
Just take the best that fit our needs and we will do fine.

Hapax Legomena:
Buy only what you need now.

fgh:
Remember: even if you could afford every Catholic book they publish, you can't possibly find time to read them. So you don't actually need them.

OK you're all right but here's the sad truth: since nothing is going to change for me personally whether I do or don't buy anything more than I have already, there's really no need for any more book! Which means that I can just take a long sabbatical from purchasing anything on Logos until the next capstone (even then I have to consider).

But sometimes it's ok to buy some things you want or like to have but don't really need, right? In moderation of course (that cardinal virtue I always really struggle to have). So therefore the need for budgeting exists and hence my question is still valid. To have an idea on what to expect (how big of a flood this is going to be) can be of value I still think.

But alas, regarding my question, I know I'm not going to know more than I already know - if you know what I mean.

EDIT: Regarding Michael Barber, this is a perfect example. Do I need his books? not really; but I do like the young scholar, he's brilliant.

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