Logos....PLEASE moderate the forums!

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This post has 50 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 2935
Doc B | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Feb 11 2013 8:53 PM

I used to post (mostly questions, as I was new to Logos) regularly here.  Then I noticed the Logos-haters and whiners seemed to be ruling the day.

I tried calling them on it, but found that I was becoming part of the problem, saying some things I later regretted (even though what I said was probably deserved and accurate).  It's never productive to be part of the problem.

So now, I've basically quit using the forums.  Just walked away.

It sure would be nice if these forums would be a good place for a Logos user to drop in and ask where to find this or that setting, or how to run a search for this word, or set up their prioritization.  But it seems about all one finds are threads on how the Logos staff should be put in jail for charging for their books, or how Bob is so stupid that Logos will be in bankruptcy by next year.  Then there's the p**sing contests between the alpha males, or one particular member attacking all things Catholic (and no, I'm not Catholic).

If a more firm stance on moderation could be taken, where habitual violators would be banned, it sure would help.  I've tried...I've reported a number of posts that were in violation, but the violators never seemed to be dealt with.  So I stopped bothering with that as well.

(Yes, I fear I'm being one of the whiners now.  But I don't know any other way to make this suggestion to moderate the forums more tightly.)

Is there any hope? I feel bad for the new users who need help and can't find much besides mudslinging.

And no, I'm not posting this to get a bunch of folks to reply about giving it time and please don't leave and all that...don't bother with those replies because they aren't important.  I'm only hoping someone who reads the suggestion thread will see this and pass it along as a serious matter.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 29686
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 12 2013 2:01 AM

I believe your post has been brought to the attention of a Logos employee. I will contact a second.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 20
GMCI | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 12 2013 4:17 AM

deleted.

Posts 10746
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 12 2013 5:03 AM

Doc, I agree with you. These forums need moderation badly.

Posts 728
Jerry Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 12 2013 5:16 AM

Jack Caviness:

Doc, I agree with you. These forums need moderation badly.

YesYes

If you want to put a label on me, I suppose conservative/evangelical would work (though I don't always tow the party line). That being said, I am saddened and angry at the things that have been directed toward our Catholic brothers and sisters.

Logos, I know that moderation is labor-intensive and therefore would cost money. How about giving some of the MVP's the ability to lock threads, delete posts, and ban users? I am sure a few of them would be willing to do this for you and many of them have shown that they can be trusted. Let us self-police in a limited way and see how that goes.

Jerry

iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.

Posts 325
Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 12 2013 5:26 AM

While I understand the need to moderate forums like this in terms of just being able to find out important information about the program.  I do wonder exactly what benefit Logos would get from eliminating "whiners" and negative ideas from a forum that might be one key way of getting feedback from customers...think free here.  While it is certainly not appropriate to launch personal attacks on Logos personal and other poster or discuss theological issues per se.  I don't see how nothing but a home boy forum helps the company in the long term especially on issue like a poor roll out of the product, lack of classical theological works (read censorship here), basing the product on a subscription model, and security concerns about the Cloud.  What exactly is a whiner anyway...how about someone who wants Logos to create a secondary market so that the license can be sold?

Posts 2589
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 12 2013 5:49 AM

Rene, I don't think anyone is advocating that users can only sing Logos' tune.

All healthy forums will contain a useful degree of dissension. The trouble starts when the scope of the forum is breached or etiquette is ignored by a few blighted individuals, trolls, who disrupt the delivery of content and discussion with a barrage of unwelcome pontifications, often thinly veiled as clarifications, honest inquiries etc.

Posts 325
Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 12 2013 6:05 AM

It seems to me that until Logos takes actions that things are as they want them to be.

Posts 165
Wayne | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 12 2013 6:39 AM

Lee:
All healthy forums will contain a useful degree of dissension. The trouble starts when the scope of the forum is breached or etiquette is ignored by a few blighted individuals, trolls, who disrupt the delivery of content and discussion with a barrage of unwelcome pontifications, often thinly veiled as clarifications, honest inquiries etc.

I think that the forums should basically be free as moderation would create new problems and discussions. There are a certain number of problem discussions that get started on the weekend about a dissatisfaction with Logos. The problem seems to grow with the passing hour and there is no one step in and give an official answer. At times I have thought that it would be good to have someone who can step in and block further posting for 24-48 hours until a definite answer can be given.

There are a threads that are an embarrassment. Mostly I choose to ignore those threads. User opinions and healthy degree of dissension are a big part of the buying experience. For example if I am looking at a product to buy I look at the opinions of the users. But I ignore both the very positive and very negative as I assume they have some kind of bias, don't know how to use the product, etc.

Posts 11207
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 12 2013 6:46 AM

It is so hard not to click on a thread that clearly is juicy and whiny and troll-y.   Kind of like on the TV channel listing.

We desperately need someone to stop us.  I know myself, so many times I've been saddened, as I page down to read the next awful comment, thinking to myself, I am so thankful I am not as they.

 

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 12 2013 7:03 AM

DMB:
thinking to myself, I am so thankful I am not as they.

Lk 18.11   Big Smile

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 12 2013 7:07 AM

Rene Atchley:
What exactly is a whiner anyway

I think the comment regarding pornography applies here:  "You may not be able to define it, but you know it when you see it."

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 10746
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 12 2013 7:18 AM

George Somsel:
I think the comment regarding pornography applies here:  "You may not be able to define it, but you know it when you see it."

You are too old to be looking Big Smile

In regard to Jerry's comment, this MVP does not want the responsibility of disciplining trolls and/or spammers. These are the only two cases where I think moderation is warranted, and then it should be done by a Logos representative.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 12 2013 7:23 AM

Jack Caviness:
You are too old to be looking

When I'm too old to be looking (at women, not pornography), they can shovel dirt in my face.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1700
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 12 2013 7:52 AM

There is moderation and moderation.  It depends on what you mean.  In my opinion, one of the biggest strengths of these forums is all the users who can and do answer all kinds of questions at all hours.  It would be a crying shame if we were to lose that.  The original poster suggests that we are already in danger of this because the signal to noise ratio has gotten so bad.  But we would lose it also if every post were put into a queue until an official moderator OK'ed it for distribution.  I don't think that is what anyone here really wants, but want to make clear that I don't want that.

There is also moderation in monitoring the forums, trying to put out some fires before they explode.  This can be done by private communication with the offender, by timely official responses to concerns, and when necessary can be done by locking threads and banning users.  Of course, a user can start another thread and get another user account easy enough usually.  And doing big actions like that can inflame the situation even more.  And so it is a judgement call - when to stamp it out, and when to let it die a natural death.

In my experience, both here, and in the Newsgroups before that, Logos really puts up with a lot.  I think it is part of their vision of Customer Service to take the hits and stay professional.  Again, we don't want to lose that, and I think neither does Logos.

SDG

Ken McGuire

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Basic, Academic Essentials

L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze

Posts 308
Dean J | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 12 2013 8:08 AM

I would like self-righteous twaddle like the opening post to be moderated. This is a place to discuss Logos, not a pulpit. If people wish to provide negative feedback on Logos products, that is their prerogative, and may help Logos to gauge how they are doing (think the roll out of Logos 5).

Implicit in the Logos product is the idea that it is a 'Christian' company, and some people find that difficult to square with a company which has seemingly brought on board what many would consider to be a non Christian and false religion. This is a delicate issue, but getting all self-righteous about it is not the best response, in my opinion. 

Posts 325
Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 12 2013 8:18 AM

I sometimes wonder just how much profit a business must make before the moniker of "christian" is lost and company takes it place.  It does strike me that asking for moderation from a multi-million dollar corp. (a guess) is sort of a self defeating proposition in that the forums says more about the posters than it does about the company...even when we are "whining" about one or another topic.

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 12 2013 8:22 AM

Ken McGuire:

[...]banning users. [...]

FYI: “Banning” institutes “blocking” an IP. How would you feel if your IP got blocked? – this means that your Logos software becomes only what you have on your system – NO MORE UPDATES!!

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 12 2013 9:21 AM

Dean053:
Implicit in the Logos product is the idea that it is a 'Christian' company, and some people find that difficult to square with a company which has seemingly brought on board what many would consider to be a non Christian and false religion. This is a delicate issue, but getting all self-righteous about it is not the best response, in my opinion. 

Suggestion:  http://www.amazon.com/Shinto-Meditations-Revering-Stuart-Picken/dp/1880656663/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1360689580&sr=1-7&keywords=shinto

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 11207
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 12 2013 9:32 AM

At last, the Logos forum is broadening its appeal and recognizing the benefit of all religions.  Very similar to the son of David (literally) as well as Manassah.

And a big thumbs up on George's Shinto Meditations; one MAJOR reason why we're considering Hawaii as our next abode (the only other United States Shinto shrine being in the northwest of course).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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