Making Automatic Citations Work

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Posts 41
Rick Goettsche | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Dec 8 2009 8:38 AM

I have loved using Logos for research purposes for sermons, papers, etc. I like the ability to copy and paste something right into my document (or now, even use the clippings feature instead of having a notes document in Word). My only complaint has been the citations feature. It seems to have such promise--eliminating the tedious work of trying to properly cite a quote, but at least in my experience (in L4 and L3), it falls far short of that. My citations are often filled with some extraneous bits of information. That's not usually a huge deal, because it's pretty simple to delete what I don't need. I'd rather err on the side of too much information than too little. One of my biggest disappointments is the lack of page numbers. I have my citation style set to Turabian, and whenever I copy and paste something, the footnote I get is similar to what would be in a bibliography--namely a citation of the resource not the citation of that particular quote.

I hope I'm being clear. This is feature that would save students (and pastors who care about correctly citing sources) incredible amounts of time, but it can actually be slower than doing a citation from a print source (since you have to turn on the visual filter for page numbers, locate your quote, possibly find the author of the section of the book you are reading--as opposed to the author of the entire volume, which is what Logos gives--and sometimes locate things like volume numbers.) I realize that some of these things would be difficult to automate, but I would love it if the automatic citations could be a little bit more intelligent. As it stands now, I still have to manually cite everything in order to make it correct.

If I'm missing something here (a distinct possibility!), please let me know!

Posts 726
Chris Elford | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 8 2009 9:44 AM

Rick Goettsche:

One of my biggest disappointments is the lack of page numbers. I have my citation style set to Turabian, and whenever I copy and paste something, the footnote I get is similar to what would be in a bibliography--namely a citation of the resource not the citation of that particular quote.

If I'm missing something here (a distinct possibility!), please let me know!

Rick,

I agree that it is not perfectly implemented yet, but I can get pages.

Can you list a specific example, please? Also, what settings do you have in Program Settings re: citations?

I just copied a selection from: Pocket Dictionary of Theological Terms. I had page numbers turned off. I have citations settings all "on." I right clicked after selecting the text I wanted. I clicked on "selection" and then on "copy." I opened a word doc and pasted. I got the quote - not formatted (i.e., indented - but that's my issue). The footnote is also not properly formatted (I have Turabian style) - no indent on first line - also a Word issue? - but the rest is there and right. Page number included.

So, what resource and procedure did you use?

Chris

Posts 41
Rick Goettsche | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 8 2009 8:45 PM

So, apparently this is Murphy's Law in action (or my own ignorance...), but in going into various books from which I have recently copied and pasted, I do indeed get page numbers. I could swear that I did not a couple days ago when I attempted to do the same thing, but looking back at some of my notes documents, I do indeed have them. As a matter of fact, in trying some citations (just simply highlighting text, copying and pasting in Word), they were actually pretty good as far as formatting goes.

One resource I noticed did not have a very complete reference was Encyclopedia of 7700 Illustrations. It did not give me a page number or the author of the quote I had selected (as opposed to the just giving me the person who compiled the quotes for the book). Admittedly, I'm not familiar with the print version of this resource, so it could just be a quirk of the book itself. I just noticed it looking back at my notes.

For writing papers, I often utilize some of the journal libraries I have in Logos, and these often give flawed citations. I noticed now that they do have page numbers, but some of the other information is not quite accurate. Example: An article about Clark Pinnock in the Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society from 1981. The article was written by Rex A. Koivisto, but he is not listed in my citation. Instead, the author is listed as the Evangelical Theological Society, vol. 24. I think this is incorrect citation. Most of the other information is pretty much spot on, though it is in volume 24, no. 2, and the citation lists the volume, but not the number in the title (it also lists the volume in the author field, which I think is not correct). Additionally, the publisher is listed next to the date (which is not necessary for most journals). The result is that Evangelical Theological Society appears three different times in the citation (only once is required). Also, the date should technically include the fact that this was from June 1981, as opposed to just 1981. Anyway, I recognize there is probably some difficulty in making all this work properly (because Logos would have to know what article you were quoting from, and the author of that article, as well as all the other info) but it is something I've noticed. I figured it can't hurt to be specific about what errors I'm seeing.

Anyway, thanks for pointing out that I was missing something--I feel a little better about it. If there's something I've overlooked to fix the other stuff, please let me know!

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