Licencing: Per-user or per-machine?

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Dec 9 2009 5:15 AM

I know licencing has been dicussed at length, and I'm grateful for interaction from Logos employees. For me, the current per-user model of licensing works very well. I can use Logos on any of my three computers and my iPhone without paying for additional licences. I really, really appreciate that.

But I know that model doesn't suit everyone. As you may know, Microsoft offer corporate users per-user or per-machine licenses in some circumstances. This flexibility is very useful, as it can suit those in different environments. It seems to me that it would be relatively easy for Logos to add this flexibility to Logos4.

  • The per-user model would work exactly as it does now. Documents/notes/settings would be synced between machines. Nothing would be private.
  • The per-machine model would mean Logos would be locked to one machine. If a user tried to install and log in on another machine that would be denied until they had de-authorised the first machine. However, Logos would be installed to "Program Files" and multiple users on that computer would have separate notes, collections, etc. stored locally and backed up in the cloud.

If this could be done, then I think almost everyone would be happy (apart from the licence abusers, of course!).

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AndyTheGreek | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2009 1:00 PM

I think there's a thread that states that Logos4 cannot be installed to \program files...

Other than that, I'm not sure why anyone would be unhappy with the current per user licencing as it stands. I, for one, really appreciate Logos's attitude to this - I have recently acquired a Netbook and it's great to be able to have Logos on my home PC, my work PC and on my 'commuting PC'.

As I'm the only person in my family who uses Logos, this I think is within the licencing terms and it's refreshing to see that they take this attitude.

Andy

 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2009 7:39 PM

Mark Barnes:
Microsoft offer corporate users per-user or per-machine licenses in some circumstances.

I would be surprised it Logos didn't work out individual contracts with libraries. Site licenses normally have a minimum number of licenses that need to be purchased - at least one long, vocal discussion here probably would not have been resolved by a site license.

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Jacob Hantla | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2009 7:42 PM

Mark, if I'm understanding you rightly, you're wanting this so that multiple people in the same family/office/whatever could use the same machine under different licenses and all have access to the same resources but keep their notes etc separate?

I actually think this is a good idea for Logos to explore for churches/seminaries etc. 

Jacob Hantla
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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2009 8:17 PM

I have suggested this many times before.  It would be great in a church library to have a site license, get people used to using it so they can get their own copy.  Or, if they already are a licensed user, they could log in and access their own notes :-)

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LaRosa Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2009 8:27 PM

I could see the usefulness of it. Say allowing my wife to use Logos 4 on her machine [a shared machine] (as a very light user who only wants to look up verses from time to time)... right now I'd either have to buy a separate license/package or let her use my account. the risk of using my account is the possibility of her accidentally deleting some of my important stuff (i.e. collections or notes) while she's trying to do her own studies.

As of right now it's not an issue, since I have her using a different Bible app, but just some food for thought for the Logos team Smile

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SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2009 8:40 PM

Logos4 cannot be installed to \program files...

Joe, am I right that because of the above requirement there is now no way for a "Guest" user account on a computer to even access L4 (or to even know that it is on the computer?)

It used to be handy to allow someone (on a guest account log-in)  to occasionally "look at" L3 for "one-time-use" of L3 for a short period of time while staying as a house guest or as a member of the family etc. (This protected my own personal settings from being "messed" up etc.)

I am assuming this is no longer an option in L4.  I did not see any L4 icon on the Guest account, nor did I see any mention of it in the Start/program listing. I would love to be corrected on this.

And If that is the case, (that it is not even visible on the Guest account) are we to assume that there were a lot of "rip-off" artists using L3 Bible study software? What did they do, skip all the parts about ethics, etc?  If not, the company has used a sledge hammer to kill a flea!.

Steve F


Regards, SteveF

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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2009 8:48 PM

Stephen, 

I am not sure of the answer since I am on a Mac so someone else will have to help you there.

However, regarding software piracy.  We have heard straight from Logos about users at a seminary going around selling $50 installation of Logos Gold.  That is right a seminary student was selling his Gold license to anyone who would pay $50.  aside from the moral aspects, that is a theft of many thousands of dollars which is a felony.  You can go online and find places that sell hacks to Logos to get books.  So it may be, from your perspective, a sledge hammer to kill a flea, but then it is not your money getting stolen, is it? 

I do think there needs to be a pay to pay a user fee to allow multiple users to access one installation and I would pay for that privilege and convince to ensure that my notes were not ruined.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2009 9:06 PM

Mark Barnes:
  • The per-user model would work exactly as it does now. Documents/notes/settings would be synced between machines. Nothing would be private.
  • The per-machine model would mean Logos would be locked to one machine. If a user tried to install and log in on another machine that would be denied until they had de-authorised the first machine. However, Logos would be installed to "Program Files" and multiple users on that computer would have separate notes, collections, etc. stored locally and backed up in the cloud.

Hey Mark,

I think you are on to something here!  I would suggest the per-machine license have different levels of users. Maybe levels of 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 and so on. And priced accordingly. That way large seminaries, moderate church libraries & large or small families could be accomodated. The per-machine license pretty much assures only one person at a time uses the software. BUT I would HATE to trade my single-user/multi-machine license for it!

Maybe a dual-model licensing would open the door to many more users. It sure would alleviate re-posting BobP's EULA discussion and attempt to accomodate husband/wife or family sharing every time a new user gets a license. And it would also deal with the dark side of this issue.   (.. shhhh.. I don't want to go there again.)   Best of all, it would increase the profits. A healthy goose lays more golden eggs!

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SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2009 9:07 PM

Joe, thanks for the very prompt and helpful reply!

So my comment about "ethics' still stands? Sounds like "someone" surely did not take the course...

(And no, I don't want "Bob" ripped off either).

And as, like you,, I still am very "protective" towards "my" settings..

So...Logos no longer gets any free "advertising" anymore (from me showing it to a prospective customer).

As the Logos blog says, it is a "professional level tool" -- and it is just too expensive to let anyone mess with it, if my loss of settings is going to be the price.

Steve F

Regards, SteveF

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2009 9:30 PM

Joe Miller:
However, regarding software piracy.  We have heard

Joe, I wish you wouldn't get into details on how some can circumvent the safeguards to piracy. The evil people already have the knowledge but some decent people could be tempted to do wrong.  The more vague those subjects remain, the less people will fall into the trap.

As far as multiple users in one house go: I would not necessarily need the Portfolio license for my wife & kids. A more basic Bible study library will suffice. My interests in Theology, Archeology and Biblical languages are far removed from anything they would use Logos for. 

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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2009 9:33 PM

I can appreciate your concerns Steve, and they are legit.

I notice that library.logos.com offers a free set of books to browse for iPhone / mobile users.

I wonder if it would be possible to create a generic Guest user login for our installed software that strips out notes and other personal stuff.  This would let us demo the software, let my wife or sons do some Bible reading.  Then, if they want to start to take notes, I could pay for a user license (maybe a basic set of books like the Family base package) and then from the same installation many users could access their personal stuff.

The only barrier I see is that there is one large index.  I don't know if that is insurmountable, but it could be a barrier depending on how the code is implemented for searching.

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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2009 9:35 PM

Matthew C Jones:
Joe, I wish you wouldn't get into details on how some can circumvent the safeguards to piracy.
Good point.  Although I don't think that is possible now with L4, but I will be more cautious.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2009 9:43 PM

Joe Miller:
I wonder if it would be possible to create a generic Guest user login for our installed software that strips out notes and other personal stuff.

Another brilliant idea. The very code that integrates the notes should be able to withdraw them. This doesn't sound that difficult to achieve. (I have been wrong before. )

But the question of limited library resources would probably require yet another separate index. (Again, I could ne wrong. It may in fact be insurmountable.)

 

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Jon | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2009 1:33 AM

Joe Miller:
Or, if they already are a licensed user, they could log in and access their own notes :-)

I think this is may already be the case... If you hold down control on startup you can login to a different Logos account; the way the Logos 4 directories are structured would suggest it is designed to facilitate this... Not sure what it would mean for downloading and indexing though :)

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Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2009 2:04 AM

Jon Rumble:

Joe Miller:
Or, if they already are a licensed user, they could log in and access their own notes :-)

I think this is may already be the case... If you hold down control on startup you can login to a different Logos account; the way the Logos 4 directories are structured would suggest it is designed to facilitate this... Not sure what it would mean for downloading and indexing though :)

I don't know exactly how it works but even you would log-in under a different name (let's say your son having a simple Bible Study Library account) the only thing it would share would be the engine and system files. It would create the random folder in Data and Documents and it looks to me it would download all the books into the resources again. So it would be the same as having another User Account in your Windows System.

What would help it would be if Logos would be able to use the same pool of resources installed somewhere (I don't know what would be the best) and creating the Documents folder with notes setups etc. separate for each user. This way having a few users on the same computer would mean only some measure of GB's not 10 or 15 GB of resources 2 - 3 times at the same computer, according to the number of users.

I don't see much use for that in a regular situations, where usually just one person uses one computer (more computers). It would help greatly in the Libraries setups. When students can have their own user account with notes and all settings and the pool of resources would be generic (basically as big as the biggest account present on the machine).

It might be however that technically (how Logos 4 is made) all of this is impossible and we slowly have to forget about more people using one computer. I remember time in our church we had  just one computer with about 7 User accounts. It is history now. Everybody has it's own computer. So more and more, College libraries can be the only places there would be potentially more people trying to access Logos resources on the same machine. I might be wrong, not taking some aspects into account. I admit this.

Creating a Logos Guest account as addition to our main account might be an interesting idea. It would help promote Logos and not risking somebody would mess up with your setups, highlights and notes.

Bohuslav

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2009 4:01 AM

Bohuslav Wojnar:
Creating a Logos Guest account as addition to our main account might be an interesting idea. It would help promote Logos and not risking somebody would mess up with your setups, highlights and notes.

It's an interesting idea but it gets back to providing for multiple account (user) access. The Guest account will not provide the necessary icon/Start Menu items unless this is allowed by the installation! Then there are issues for control of indexing and resource/program updates (Auto Download being but one!). L3 had the concept of an Libronix Administrator and all update/discovery options were restricted to this user(s). This then brings us back to the choice of installing into a user-specific folder .....

 

Dave
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