L4 and Precept (Inductive) Bible Studies.

Reply

John Norman Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 10:20 AM

Ron Keyston Jr:

 

I think someone did that recently on another thread.  I will see if I can find it.

EDIT: Try this...Kim Clayton posted a link to a blog with six pages of symbols:

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/11330.aspx?PageIndex=3

Thanks...   here is a copy of what I use in Libronix 3 as a jpg file...   (You may need to zoom to see it properly)

Reply

John Norman Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 12:47 PM

Please do...   You can even find the Libronix 3 XML file on my blog at www.stilltruth.com...

Reply

Sharon Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 2:47 PM

John Norman:

Thanks...   here is a copy of what I use in Libronix 3 as a jpg file...  

Hi Norman,

Is there a video lying around somewhere that would help everyone with how you did this?

Thanks!

Reply

Charlene Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 11:40 PM

That would be super, Norman!

Thanks in advance!

Reply

John Norman Replied: Fri, Apr 2 2010 9:24 PM

Special experiment for those who are brave.  I have put together a utility to import Logos 4 Highlighting Palettes and posted it on my blog at http://www.stilltruth.com/blog/normanjd/import-utility-logos-4-palettes if you want to try it out.   Note that not all the Libronix 3 Style creation features are available, so my Logos 4 palette is slightly modified to compensate.  (For instance, used a Old English font for "Ark of Covenant" as the Engraved feature no longer exists....)

Will work on a video tutorial for creating styles some time next week as time permits.

Reply

John Norman Replied: Tue, Apr 6 2010 6:37 PM

John Norman:

Sharon:

Hi Norman,

 

Is there a video lying around somewhere that would help everyone with how you did this?

 

Thanks!

 

 

No idea...   I never got around to making videos or writing a tutorial on creating markups in detail.  :(  The interface in Logos 4 is different, but the same options are still available, and it looks like a few new ones have been added...   If I have some free time, will try recording a quick video, but kinda busy over Easter...  God bless...

Okay, here is a Flash based tutorial I did in WINK: http://cid-2710bca0d4d5e0f5.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/Logos4/highlighting.swf

You will need to download it and run it locally from IE as I don't have a good spot to host it for streaming (yet?) 

Reply

David Housholder Replied: Tue, Apr 6 2010 7:25 PM

Karen Collins:

This is Karen Jensen Collins--our family owns the copyright to the Jensen book that Bill Cook referenced above

It was delightful to see your posting here, Karen. I started learning inductive Bible study from Robert Traina. I believe he also taught your dad? Your dad's book has been a good tool through the years, one I've recommended to others.

I haven't looked at the PDF version as yet, but it's not difficult to convert a PDF into Kindle format to be published through the Amazon Kindle site. And getting it into Logos would be good as well. We need to keep that material in circulation.

Another website for the inductive approach is www.thewordisout.org. Dr. Alan Meenan, another of Dr. Traina's students, is the resource person there. And note Morris Proctor's Camp Logos seminars at www.mpseminars.com. Periodically he offers one focused on inductive Bible study.

David Housholder

Reply

TCBlack Replied: Thu, Apr 8 2010 9:38 AM

John,

I've "massaged" the location of the movie in question...

http://www.stilltruth.com/blog/normanjd/highlighting-tutorial-video

Note that on the site hierarchy it is actually a sub page of the link John posted.

Reply

Sharon Replied: Fri, Apr 9 2010 11:09 PM

MJ. Smith:

Sharon:

The reason I do not is simply this--I don't believe I can possibly do, with Logos, what I can do with my hands and eyes, focusing just on the Word alone for that first step.  I draw arrows all over, circle things, etc. that just can't be done with a program.  Plus, you cannot just let Logos find every reference to a certain word.  It's a program (magnificent, to be sure) but it can't deliberate over a dilemma and make a Spirit led choice like I can (like differentiating which servant in Isaiah should be Jesus or Israel, or whether it is referring to both, not to mention all the pronouns and possible synonyms!)

I'm also curious about this statement. Mind you, I only have an overview understanding of Arthur's work. But with the combination of the diagramming and highlighting tools, what does the Precept model do that can't be done in Logos? And when evaluating the reference list, why don't you find Logos conducive to Spirit-led discernment? I'm curious because your comments make me think that I may be misunderstanding Precept Bible study - and Bible study methods and techniques fascinate me.

I've been popping in and out of the forums as I have had access to a computer.  Mine has been in the hospital and it looks terminal.  I have access right now and thought I'd look at your question again.  The trail is probably rather cold to both of us by now, (sorry about that) but I told you I would answer and I thought I'd give it a shot while I could get online.

In reference to the question about the diagramming and highlighting tools - for one thing, my arrows are likely to span several pages and connect in many places with other arrows and circles - Logos can't do that as far as I know.  I also mark much more than just key words and phrases.  I guess you could say that Logos can't speak my Bible marking language, because, in essence that is what I do when marking.  I am using those markings essentially as another language, which Logos just does not speak.  :-)  And amazingly, I can look at my Bible and recognize the markings as expressed meaning (logos), not simply marking.

As far as being Spirit led on making lists - to use the Isaiah example already given, when I am reading through the text during the first part of the process (which takes months) I start to see things that were unnoticed by me during the first few readings.  I become more and more familiar with the text.  I start to notice all the different references to the One.

In the initial stages of studying, I would not be able to discern all of these, perhaps even most of them.  But as other pieces of the Isaiah puzzle fall into place during my repeated observational/interrogatory readings, I am more and more able to discern whether the world arm should be Arm or arm, whether servant is Servant or servant, Branch or branch, One or one, etc.

I could tell Logos to mark all those for me in the first place, but that would be counterproductive and even dangerous.  I would still have to go back and put each one in its context before I could make an accurate conclusion.  The reality is that the context for each of them is not just a few verses surrounding them, not just the chapter they are in, nor is it even a large segment of the book of Isaiah.  The context of each word in Isaiah is the entire book of Isaiah because that is the environment in which each of them dwell.  (And of course, that is not even mentioning the book of Isaiah's larger environment.)

To use a very simple example.  If you came to my house you would notice many things, but you would notice more things the longer you stayed.  And you would notice more things the more often you came to my house.  And you would notice more things the less obstructed by distractions during each visit.  You would notice many things if I pointed them out to you, as well.  Now I could give you a list of things to notice, and you would be able to find them all, with time.  But you would not really know their neighborhood (context) if you noticed them as part of a list rather than as a part of the environment in which they dwelt.  The reason being is that the list needs to come from doing an overview, not just a gathering of words.

You could take my list of things for you to notice and find the paper clip that is in the bookshelf - but you wouldn't know the meaning of the paper clip unless the context defined it for you.  You could guess, reason, speculate, even do word studies on paper clips and bookcases, read commentaries on paper clips and bookcases, ask others about it, but you wouldn't know unless you studied my bookcase and my paper clip themselves.  You would need to spend time with my paper clip and my bookcase in order to discover the truth for yourself.  You would need to spend time in the room where my paper clip and my bookcase were.  You would need to notice other things in the room, other chairs for example.  You would need to know who lived in my house.  You could never learn what the paper was doing in the bookcase unless you learned all those things and others - by first-hand observation.  If Logos made a list for you that included the word paper clip and all references to paper clip, especially those that were in the vicinity of a bookcase, you still would not be able to discern the meaning.  I can say that because I know the meaning.  It is obscure.  And no list in the world is going to reveal it.  Only careful, dogged, personal investigative observation of the paper clip and its environment will do that. 

What I have described thus far is only one very small piece of the process of inductive study (and very lightly described and clumbsily discussed at that).  The work of the Holy Spirit is what makes my work of observation explode into supernatural understanding and knowledge.  As I am searching the Word of God in Isaiah, listening, praying, diligently seeking, He leads me into Truth.  He teaches me.  He wrote the book and He wants me to hear and understand what He has said and is saying to me.

It is during the beginning of this wonderful blessing of the method that my arrows, circles, boxes, markings, colorings begin to fill the pages with His message.  That's because He is saying, "Child, do you see this?  Look here, Child, and notice this particular word.  Have you seen it before?  Yes, you have. Where have you seen it?  Why do you think I said it before?  Why do you think I am saying it again?  Child, the reason is this...."  And then He tells me, shows me, teaches me.  Sometimes it is a deep spiritual truth, sometimes it is a small little glorious nugget that builds my faith in Who He is and what He has said.  And sometimes it is something so elementary that I can't believe I didn't see it myself - and then I am once again reminded that it is He Who gives knowledge and understanding to men - and no one else.  And I guarantee you that what God has taught me Himself, I understand and I remember.  He writes it on my heart, the way I write it in my Bible.  My responsibility is to respond rightly to each and every thing He shows me - forever!

Accurate interpretation flows out of diligent observation and righteous application begins the moment the observation touches understanding.

Oh, MJ, this seems to me to be a very impotent rendering of the answer to your questions.  They are good questions.  I pray God will take my words, straighten them out, and cause you to catch a glimpse of what a great tool He has given the world through those who have honed the art of inductive study for the rest of us.  There is one needful thing, Jesus said--sitting at His feet and listening to Him.  Biblical listening is "hearing and doing"--belief.  It comes through His Word.  He wrote His Book to us using words and we must listen to those words (none other) as closely and intently as we can.  Then we must respond rightly to them.

Thanks for listening.  Sorry again for being so tardy in my response.

Sharon

Reply

Joan Korte Replied: Sat, Apr 10 2010 5:23 AM

Sharon:

What I have described thus far is only one very small piece of the process of inductive study (and very lightly described and clumbsily discussed at that).  The work of the Holy Spirit is what makes my work of observation explode into supernatural understanding and knowledge.  As I am searching the Word of God in Isaiah, listening, praying, diligently seeking, He leads me into Truth.  He teaches me.  He wrote the book and He wants me to hear and understand what He has said and is saying to me.

Sharon, your description of the process is excellent even inspired, not light or clumbsily.  Thanks for taking the time to share it.