POLL: Would you buy the Zondervan Bible Reference Collection for $.....

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Dec 9 2009 5:23 PM

One of the most hotly discussed threads on http://community.logos.com/forums/ is
the Zondervan Bible Reference Collection http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/5656 coming to Logos format. I would like to try a poll for one purpose only. I would hope to encourage Zondervan (maybe they read these things?) to crunch the numbers and see if it would not be beneficial to Zondervan, Logos, the end-users and Church in general to have massive sales at more affordable prices.

Without ranting, venting, complaining or maligning others, let us answer two simple questions:

1) If you have not previously purchased these Zondervan titles; How much would you pay for the Zondervan Collection for an out right NEW purchase?
OR
2) If you have purchased some of these; Which titles?  and How much would you pay to have the whole Zondervan Collection in Logos?

Just give your answers, short & sweet. Then, when they crunch the numbers, maybe they will smile real big and announce a win-win-win-win for Zondervan, Logos, end-users and most of all; the Kingdom. See the following post for my answers. Thank you. I hope it makes a difference.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2009 5:24 PM

1) I would pay $1000 for the Zondervan Bible Reference Collection as a new purchase in Logos.

OR

2) I already bought:
    Zondervan Scholar Library,
    New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology
    New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis
   
   I would pay $800 for the Zondervan Bible Reference Collection in Logos.

Smile Thank you Zondervan for reading.

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Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2009 5:44 PM

I would pay $1000.

After eliminating the titles I don't really need, I'll probably end up purchasing about $800 worth of Zondervan resources. 

Posts 1040
Tom Reynolds | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2009 5:45 PM

1) $800

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2009 6:22 PM

I have purchased, in hardcover:

New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis (NIDOTTE) (5 vols.)
The Expositor's Bible Commentary, Vol. 5 (Psalms, Prov., Ecc., SS)
NIV Application Commentary: Daniel (Tremper Longman); Ecclesiastes/Song of Songs (Iain Provan)
Zondervan Illustrated Bible Backgrounds Commentary: New Testament (4 vols.)
How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth
How to Read the Bible Book by Book

The other titles I would want to own would be:
The Expositor's Bible Commentary - remaining volumes
New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (NIDNT)
NIV Application Commentary - remaining volumes (some are still not available in print: Deut, Ezra-Nehemiah, Job, Psalms vol 2)
Zondervan Illustrated Bible Backgrounds Commentary: Old Testament
Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible
Africa Bible Commentary
New International Bible Commentary
New International Bible Dictionary
New International Dictionary of the Christian Church
New International Encyclopedia of Bible Characters
New International Encyclopedia of Bible Words

I don't care about anything else in the collection.

I have already taken a big gulp and clicked to order the pre-pub of the whole collection for about $2000. I would much prefer to get it for half that price. Or less.

If I bought all the remaining hardcover books from this collection that I want (individually, from Amazon.com), they would cost me a total of $1929. I don't need them all, but I lust after them. And I might as well get them all. So for the privilege of having them, along with the ones I own already in hardcover, in Logos format, I'd be willing to pay $2000. But like I said, I'd much prefer to get it for less if Zondervan and Logos were amenable. Thanks for spurring me on to do this cost analysis.

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spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2009 7:14 PM

Matthew C Jones:
1) If you have not previously purchased these Zondervan titles; How much would you pay for the Zondervan Collection for an out right NEW purchase?
OR

$500 Would tempt me, but I don't know where I would get it. there is still good deal territory above that, but not for my wallet. I might purchase some separately, though.

Posts 43
Steve Burrow | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2009 7:39 PM

1) I will not purchase the 'collection' for $2000.  I just can’t afford that price for Items I really don’t need or want (like most of the monographs in the collection).  IF the collection were closer to $1200, I might be able to afford that, and be willing to pay for additional resources I would like, but not right now.

2) I don't own any of these currently

So what do I plan to do?

I do plan, and will try, to purchase these items separately, in the following order ($790 total):

  • Expositor's Bible Commentary - $130
  • NIV Application Commentary (OT&NT) - $ 380
  • Encyclopedia of the Bible - $280

I’d like to have the following, but don't plan to purchase, especially in the near future ($740 total):

  • New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology  - $130
  • New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis - $ 200
  • Illustrated Bible Backgrounds Commentary: OT&NT - $410
Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2009 2:36 AM

Philip Spitzer:
$500 Would tempt me

Yes, me to Smile 2000 is beyond my horizon. I ordered some individual series and resources (too many actually Sad )

Bohuslav

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2009 3:15 AM

I've pre-ordered about $800 worth of Zondervan resources. I'd like (for example) the Bible Background Commentaries, which are WAY over-priced. Zondervan don't appear to have realised that what makes those books expensive is that it's full-colour throughough, printed on a heavy gloss. Therefore we should EXPECT not to have to absorb those costs on an electronic edition.

Anyway, the question becomes how much more than $800 would I pay to add a bunch of books I don't really need but perhaps might become useful at some point. The answer is not very much. Certainly no more than $1,000 total.

Posts 215
Dan | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2009 7:36 AM

$500 would be tempting, but anything over that is out of my price range.

Posts 102
Roger King | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2009 7:39 AM

I LOVE Zondervan's printed resources, and would eagerly add them to my library. Alas, $2000 is way to much for my tiny wallet. Sad  It will probably always remain a dream (until they add them all in a $400 collection sometime - Hint Hint Nudge Nudge Wink Wink!)

Posts 1
Joel Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2009 7:54 AM

I have already ordered them on pre-pub and I have no problem paying $2000 dollars for them but it would be nice if they gave those of us who paid for the pradis versions some sort of discount but even if they don't will still be buying the pre-pubs those resources are just too valuable to pass up.

Posts 67
Aaron Kesson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2009 8:36 AM

Matthew C Jones:
1) If you have not previously purchased these Zondervan titles; How much would you pay for the Zondervan Collection for an out right NEW purchase?

 

I would pay no more than $1000 because it is all I can afford.  Like someone else said, there are things included that I would not necessarily "need" , but may prove beneficial later on.

Grace and Peace,

-Rev. Aaron Kesson

http://www.aaronkesson.com

Posts 1129
Keith Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2009 8:44 AM

I don’t see where there is much incentive to pre-order. There is not much of a discount and it sounds like Zondervan is going to be offering their own boxed collections of these resources, which historically have been heavily discounted on the internet. It is just like the pre-pubs of the Nelson collections, you can typically find them much cheaper on the internet, than you can from pre-ordering from Logos.

In light of this, the discount would have to be in the 40% range to tempt me.

Posts 3683
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2009 2:17 PM

Matthew C Jones:

2) If you have purchased some of these; Which titles?  and How much would you pay to have the whole Zondervan Collection in Logos?

I've purchased EBC. Was given another title or 2 by Z but no longer have access to them (or to the newer version of Pradis they came with). Ended up at present with just the EBC.

As solo pastor of a small church, I no longer have the means to make large Logos purchases. If it's more than $50 to upgrade EBC to Logos, I probably won't even do that.

Blessings!

Bill

Grace & Peace,
Bill


Asus GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
Samsung S9+, 64GB
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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2009 6:27 PM

In another post in another thread, I asked the question: If you had 100 Logos users in a room, how many will be buying the Z collection at $2000?  Five?  Drop the price to $500.  Now how many will buy it?  25-50?  Let's keep in mind that 100-200 lbs. of paper isn't changing hands here.  Is it better to sell 1 collection at $2000 or sell 4 collections at $500?  I argue that the latter is preferred...because it builds up the user base of those who are using and quoting the resources in the collection.  That in turn gives those who encounter the increased number of Zondervan references a reason to purchase the titles, ESPECIALLY in e-format where hotlinks provide immediate gratification.  Let's look again at the scenario, because it isn't a question of 1 @ $2000 vs. 4 @ $500 (a wash revenue wise)...it's 5 @ $2000 vs. 25 (minimum) @ $500.  In other words $10,000 vs. $12,500...nothing to sneeze at.  It's $10k vs. $20k if forty people snap up the 75% off deal...me being one of them.

"Would" I buy it for $1000 or $800?  Maybe...it's technically a "fair" price...but that's getting to be pretty stiff, and I have a Portfolio to pay off.  I would find a way to come up with $500 though...especially if it was less than $50 a month.

But will any of these scenarios ever see the light of day?  Not when people are already pledging themselves to pay the nosebleed price of $2k.  Without taking the step of advocating a boycott, simply holding off or cancelling your PrePub will get some attention.  We spend our money on all kinds of things...and they sell books.  One needs the other far more in this scenario.  And it's kind of like the music business; music companies had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the mp3 generation, but it's de rigueur now.  The music buying public simply demanded it.  We can demand what I'm suggesting as well.  Besides, I'm not saying they're going to have to take their lumps...I'm saying their going to have to "forced" to count higher profits.

They don't see that now...but we can make them see it.

 

Oh, btw, this goes for other publishers as well.  Even Logos, who is to be highly commended for the value that is their base packages (Portfolio owner here), could do much more along these lines.  I'm suggesting meaty packages that include NOTHING found in base packages and are also ridiculously good deals.  Perhaps even a "Make Your Own Package" deal, where the % off increases as the dollar amount increases.  As far as the effect that would have on PrePubs, I would be willing to pay today (on installment) for packages that were 50% available today with the promise that the other 50% were in production (Hastings Encyclopedia & Dictionary, for instance).  I trust Logos (I trust Bob's commitment to CS) enough to provide that kind of cover for their expenses.  If we put a little pressure on them, I suspect, with their arm pinned behind their back, they would cry all the way to the bank.  But these should be the SAME kinds of values that the base packages are...since only deep discounts dig deeply into my pockets.  Anything less...not so much.

Now I'm going to take my coupon and go to Hardee's for dinner.  Without the coupon, I'd be staying home.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2009 6:27 PM

I have interest in only a handful of the books - I am more apt to purchase them individually or in a small collection. My eye is already on two collections near the upper limit of my resources.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 18857
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2009 7:28 PM

David Paul:

In another post in another thread, I asked the question: If you had 100 Logos users in a room, how many will be buying the Z collection at $2000?  Five?  Drop the price to $500.  Now how many will buy it?  25-50?  Let's keep in mind that 100-200 lbs. of paper isn't changing hands here.  Is it better to sell 1 collection at $2000 or sell 4 collections at $500?  I argue that the latter is preferred...because it builds up the user base of those who are using and quoting the resources in the collection.  That in turn gives those who encounter the increased number of Zondervan references a reason to purchase the titles, ESPECIALLY in e-format where hotlinks provide immediate gratification.  Let's look again at the scenario, because it isn't a question of 1 @ $2000 vs. 4 @ $500 (a wash revenue wise)...it's 5 @ $2000 vs. 25 (minimum) @ $500.  In other words $10,000 vs. $12,500...nothing to sneeze at.  It's $10k vs. $20k if forty people snap up the 75% off deal...me being one of them.

But will any of these scenarios ever see the light of day?  Not when people are already pledging themselves to pay the nosebleed price of $2k.  Without taking the step of advocating a boycott, simply holding off or cancelling your PrePub will get some attention.

 

Now, that's a really good way to look at it, and an interesting idea! Though I could "afford" to pay the full $2000 for the bundle, I'd certainly prefer not to. I'd already ordered it because (a) I'm lusting after it, and (b) I figure the sooner they reach the number of pre-pub orders they need to make it profitable for them, the sooner they will produce it, and I want it sooner rather than later. But I agree with your logic, David, and I feel for the folks who can't afford it. And I'm willing to cancel my PrePub if that would help. I'm not sure it will, though. This thread needs to be brought to Bob's attention, and he and Zondervan need to be convinced of the validity of your estimate of how many people would buy it at the lower price point.

If we could find out how many people have signed up on the pre-pub already at the current price (I'd leave my order in for the time being) and do an informal pre-pub order poll here with a hypothetical price of $500, and demonstrate to Logos & Zondervan that at least 4x as many people would order it if it were 1/4 the price, then maybe we'd get somewhere. They'd see that it would be a win-win situation for them. They have already signed a contract, though, which might have legal implications that are beyond our knowledge. It might be difficult or costly (lawyers' fees) for them to renegotiate the contract. Or we might find out that David's guesses were wrong and that the enthusiasm for it just isn't enough higher at the lower price (however, maybe the forum won't reach everybody who might buy it at 75% off). But it's certainly worth trying!

We'd need Bob or some other Logos insider to find out for us how many pre-pub orders have come in thus far. If none of the above reply here, then I'd email Bob about it.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2009 7:40 PM

Paul, I really wish we had kept this in the other thread. It is just as visible there and a bit off-topic here (addressing other than Zondervan.) That being said:

David Paul:
I'm suggesting meaty packages that include NOTHING found in base packages and are also ridiculously good deals.  Perhaps even a "Make Your Own Package" deal, where the % off increases as the dollar amount increases.

Now the "Make Your Own Package" deal is the best idea you've suggested. That would address the many differences we all seem to have. I am absolutely tickled with the makeup of the Portfolio package. Some users were not interested enough to buy it.

I trust Bob Pritchett too. I trust him enough to allow him to run his company without twisting his arm.

So enjoy dinner at Hardee's. I ate a 28 cent package of Ramen noodles for supper. (I saw some more Pre-Pubs I am willing to sacrifice for.  Stick out tongue )

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 10 2009 8:05 PM

Rosie Perera:

If we could find out how many people have signed up on the pre-pub already at the current price (I'd leave my order in for the time being) and do an informal pre-pub order poll here with a hypothetical price of $500, and demonstrate to Logos & Zondervan that at least 4x as many people would order it if it were 1/4 the price, then maybe we'd get somewhere. They'd see that it would be a win-win situation for them. They have already signed a contract, though, which might have legal implications that are beyond our knowledge. It might be difficult or costly (lawyers' fees) for them to renegotiate the contract. Or we might find out that David's guesses were wrong and that the enthusiasm for it just isn't enough higher at the lower price (however, maybe the forum won't reach everybody who might buy it at 75% off). But it's certainly worth trying!

We'd need Bob or some other Logos insider to find out for us how many pre-pub orders have come in thus far. If none of the above reply here, then I'd email Bob about it.

Rosie, That was what I was trying to accomplish with this "POLL: Would you buy the Zondervan Bible Reference Collection for $... "

I wanted to avoid the debate and just get the numbers out there.

I guarantee you, 
Zondervan is reading this.
Bob Pritchett, President & CEO of Logos Bible Software is reading this
Dan Pritchett Vice President of Marketing is reading this.
Many others, including competitors, are following the "controversy".

There is probably a more scientific way to conduct a poll. I'm not a pollster. But a quick perusal of the answers posted makes the same point in a more civil tone and with many more voices. What lesson would Zondervan be teaching the mob if we get what we angrily demand? A peacable, non-threatening dialogue is the better way to approach this.

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