Better with More RAM

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Posts 57
David Bergquist | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Mar 30 2013 11:13 AM

Last night son, Daniel, installed RAM,

so the MacBook Pro went from 4 to 16 gigs of RAM.

Logos 5 is working better in more than one way.

It runs smoother, searches faster and also has

no hang as I quit Logos.  

Could more RAM make this much difference?

Lord willing this will keep up for Easter.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 30 2013 11:54 AM

Yes, it could make that great of difference. By the way, are you from the "evergreen" state? I knew a "Danny" once. 

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Posts 57
David Bergquist | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 30 2013 3:35 PM

I am in Iowa,

Daniel lives in Nebraska

Posts 53
Daniel Bergquist | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 30 2013 3:37 PM

Post-upgrade, his computer seems to be using about 5 GB. 4GB was definitely not enough!

12-Core Mac Pro, MacBook 2.0 GHz Core Duo, Mac mini

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Posts 66
Janis Lewman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 30 2013 4:02 PM

Where can I find system requirements for Logos 5?   Currently running Logos 4.6b SR-2 on an iMac v 10.8.3 and contemplating an upgrade if I can afford it.

And can anyone offer tips on how to figure out what resources you already have when looking at the comparison charts of the various Logos 5 packages?

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 30 2013 4:13 PM

System requirements: http://www.logos.com/support/Tech_FAQ#requirements 

When you look at the comparison charts for each Logos5 package that you're considering, at the top of list of resources, you'll see little buttons/text to click on which filters the list relative to what's new and what you already have.  

This is also helpful from the Logos Blog: http://blog.logos.com/2012/11/5-ways-to-move-to-logos-5/ 


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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 30 2013 4:18 PM

Janis Lewman:
Where can I find system requirements for Logos 5?   Currently running Logos 4.6b SR-2 on an iMac v 10.8.3 and contemplating an upgrade if I can afford it.

If you get an upgrade, seriously consider a large SSD hard drive (rather than a traditional one). Also, look for at least 8 GB of Ram.

Janis Lewman:
And can anyone offer tips on how to figure out what resources you already have when looking at the comparison charts of the various Logos 5 packages?

I dont know of a good way... but the price you will be quoted will reflect a discount for resources you already own.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 30 2013 8:07 PM

Janis Lewman:
And can anyone offer tips on how to figure out what resources you already have when looking at the comparison charts of the various Logos 5 packages?

Hovering mouse over title on => http://www.logos.com/comparison causes a pop-up to appear, which includes # of resources owned:

Pop-up also shows the number of resources, which can be different than the number of volumes.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 30 2013 11:27 PM

Janis, 6 GB RAM is enough for a start if You don't multitask a whole lot (no drawing/graphics intense softwares or many other softwares besides a web-browser and maybe Word open simultenously).
Personally I have 2 laptops. I use both IE9 and Chrome on both as web-browsers. Both have Windows 7 64-bit and good battery time, the old computer has really good battery time. The way I use my computers is that I have both on the desk, I will do so in college too, but not when studying classical Gk in the university:

  • A 9 month old. 300 GB HDD - that and the fact that it currently has only 1.6 GB RAM available, seriously slows it down. I bought this computer because the RAM is expandable to 8 GB (7.6 GB available) - I will do that. The AMD dual core CPU 1.65 GHz is certainly not the bottleneck - the newer the computer the more modern the CPU even if the name of it is "unchanged". Adequate AMD Radeon graphics card and uses the RAM memory. 15.6" monitor. Too little RAM for now to upgrade to L5. Office 2010 Starter. 4 USB ports and DVD.
  • Both computers have 1366*768 pixel monitor. That is inadequate for Logos. I recommend at least 1440*1024 pixels for any use. Or wider if You want to keep several books open to compare a lot of text.
  • The older computer is a bit over 3 years old. Drive C: is an SSD, NTFS formated 83 GB - that is actually enough for Windows 7 64-bit and L5. CPU is Core 2 Duo (among or the last generation(s)) - I didn't notice the advertised increased overall speed when upgrading from L4 to L5 which may indicate that the CPU is the bottleneck, L5 makes use of the new technique in more modern CPU:s. Drive D: is an external FAT32-formated 7200 rpm HDD. Maximum amount of RAM 4 GB. 11.9" monitor. 3 USB ports, I somewhat frequently run out of USB-ports. No CD/DVD. Logos runs smoothly. Web browsers and Microsoft Paint run very fast. Windows starts fast. For word processing I use Logos and what is included in Windows: Notepad and Wordpad. I have basically no additional softwares on this computer. The problem with this computer is that it sometimes (although rarely) runs out of video memory. I'll be buying an external ergonomic keyboard to it within a few days from now.
  • I would recommend a discrete graphics card if You can afford it:
    Janis Lewman:
    Where can I find system requirements for Logos 5? Currently running Logos 4.6b SR-2 on an iMac v 10.8.3 and contemplating an upgrade if I can afford it.


I disagree with one poster that a large SSD would be necessary. MacOS uses less space than Windows 7 or 8. Logos doesn't take an awful lot of space. But complement with a HDD. An SSD as boot drive with Logos installed on it, makes a lot of difference in speed, but is unecessary for most of Your other files and softwares. For Logos specifically, the SSD sollution is also better than a more modern CPU or a CPU with more cores or threads. Logos doesn't use many cores, other than when indexing. You manage well with 2 cores. However, more threads does make some difference if You multitask a lot but is the most expensive sollution.

If using an external HDD in Windows, be cautious: the drive letter can suddenly change.

Enough video memory is necessary. 512 MB is minimum, more is better especially if You have a lot of web-browser windows open simultaneously like I do (plus I use Microsoft Paint).

If You choose a laptop, after the purchase, do settings to how the battery is used: for example minimum CPU usage, after how many minutes disks should turn off, wireless network power (maximum energy saving is usually the best choice), pause desktop background play. But I've noticed that You don't need to lower the maximum CPU usage below 100%.

I bought a Logitech mouse, it has buttons for zooming in and out, haven't installed those features yet but that would be great if if it's compatible with Logos. It also has buttons for browsing back and forward, those work great in web-browsers without installation.

Don't use a laptop without a mouse!

I recommend getting the base-package on a DVD, and a DVD-player, if You order any of Bronze, Verbum Foundations, Biblical Languages or up.

And last but not least: if You buy a laptop, look for one which has a feature that it charges the battery up to ~80% of capacity. That lenghtens the life-span. (When necessary You can choose to charge to 100%.) Among Windows computers for example Samsung has this. My old computer is a Samsung. Under Windows, put system temporary files to drive D: HDD.

Aply!
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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 31 2013 12:19 AM

David Bergquist:
Could more RAM make this much difference?

The two biggest factors in Logos' speed is more RAM and a fast hard drive (ideally an SSD). Certainly upgrading from 4Gb to 8Gb would have a significant effect on Logos performance if you use Logos for anything for than just reading books. Above 8Gb the additional benefits tail off. You'll get a similar performance gain from an SSD, but that's generally much more expensive than a RAM upgrade.

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 31 2013 12:30 AM

Mark, that depends on how large an SSD You deem necessary:

Mark Barnes:
You'll get a similar performance gain from an SSD, but that's generally much more expensive than a RAM upgrade

 


Additionally, an SSD makes a huge difference in electricity consumption. That makes a huge difference in a laptop. Even so I recommend adding an external HDD to a laptop because the computer uses the HDD only a small fraction of the time, and an idle HDD consumes less electricity than under load, and I've experienced at least 5 hours max capacity with my old computer with normal work load using wireless network using both L5 and web-browsers and writing .

Aply!
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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 31 2013 12:51 AM

Unix:
Mark, that depends on how large an SSD You deem necessary

That obviously depends on a number of factors, including the size of your Logos library, and whether you can have multiple drives in your system, or not. I don't see an essential external drive as a solution for laptops, because it reduces portability if you have to always take your external drive with you. (It's fine to use an external drive for things you don't need on the move, for example an audio/video archive, but not things that you do need on the move.)

Therefore, for laptops, I can't see a drive less than 128GB being an option for a laptop, and realistically it probably means 256 or even 512Gb.

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 31 2013 2:10 AM

I have a soft cover/case for the old laptop with the small monitor (the one with the external HDD). I take out the computer. Then I attach the USB cable to the external HDD and put the external HDD in the corner of the cover, and almost close the zipper. Then I put the cover on my lap with the HDD hanging over my knee. Then I put the computer on top of the cover and attach the other end of the cable to the computer. The HDD doesn't slip down. Works just fine. After I have started web-browsers and Logos I can even unplug the HDD if I want to and the computer keeps functioning. Before I close Logos and put the computer in energy-save mode or sleep mode I connect the HDD. Despite frequent unplugging I haven't noticed any malfunction:

Mark Barnes:
I don't see an essential external drive as a solution for laptops, because it reduces portability if you have to always take your external drive with you. (It's fine to use an external drive for things you don't need on the move, for example an audio/video archive, but not things that you do need on the move.)

Aply!
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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 31 2013 8:03 AM

Unix:
I disagree with one poster that a large SSD would be necessary. MacOS uses less space than Windows 7 or 8. Logos doesn't take an awful lot of space. But complement with a HDD. An SSD as boot drive with Logos installed on it, makes a lot of difference in speed, but is unecessary for most of Your other files and softwares.

We are talking about Mac's here… adding another hard drive later isn't always possible, and is never easy. 128 GB would barely cover my music collection & kids movies. If someone was using their computer ONLY for Logos, I'd have no problem agreeing with you. But most people don't just use their computer for Logos… they use it for much more. 

Adding a second hard drive internally isn't an option for most Macs. I don't know if you can install a user account onto another drive or not, but that is certainly not something I would recommend for most users.

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 31 2013 12:47 PM

My bad, I didn't think about that:

alabama24:
If someone was using their computer ONLY for Logos, I'd have no problem agreeing with you.

 


Plus I didn't know adding an (external if necessary) HDD would cause any particular problems on Mac. Since that is so, that leaves me confused and unable to tell what I would recommend.

But re-installing is not a too big deal right? So perhaps start with a "small" SSD, change to a large one later on (by re-installing).

Personally if I would do other things than web-browsing, Logos and simple word processing and would run out of SSD space, I would buy a third computer (the two computers I have now both are just for Logos, simple word processing (one of them has Word the other only Notepad and WordPad) and web-browsing). OR if I would need a larger monitor, I would sell one of my existing two laptops and buy one with large monitor and SSD.

Aply!
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Posts 66
Janis Lewman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 31 2013 2:29 PM

That tip about hovering the mouse over a title definitely made me "Keep Smiling".  Thank you!  Then the greyed 'dots' apparently indicate what is included under each package.

Posts 66
Janis Lewman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 31 2013 2:44 PM

Mine is a late '09 iMac, no SSD, but does have 500 gb hard drive and 8 gb RAM (most available at time of ordering).  I thought about changing to a laptop but realize keeping up with that would be like chasing cats...never ending, and trackpad type 'mice' never work for me.  Separate mouse always easier to handle...goes with the cats :)

I rarely keep more than one program running at same time.  That said, base question was whether what I have would accommodate an upgrade to L5.  If not, so be it but best to check in advance and not get surprised.  I am looking forward to attending an upcoming Camp to learn to better utilize this wonderful tool, and renting a laptop (pc) there appears to be possible.

Posts 66
Janis Lewman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 31 2013 3:50 PM

Trying to compare packages.  Unless I've missed something, it appears the Timeline is not available in Starter but is included in Bronze etc. True?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 31 2013 4:18 PM

Janis Lewman:

Trying to compare packages.  Unless I've missed something, it appears the Timeline is not available in Starter but is included in Bronze etc. True?

Janis - There is no reason for you to get starter... If you aren't looking to spend much, then don't! You can get the L5 engine for free. If you want to add the new features without really adding a bunch of new resources, then add the minimal crossgrade. 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 31 2013 4:20 PM

I forgot to add... I have the same (or similar) iMac, and run L5 just fine. 

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