Nehemiah ?

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 4 2013 6:30 AM

Josh:

Did Nehemiah have a message from God to give to men?

"The title thus has a general application to all who have messages from God to men."
From: Easton’s Bible Dictionary (New York: Harper & Brothers

So does that make everyone that gives a sermon / homily a prophet? [[maybe just a micro micro one?]]

Posts 5128
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 5 2013 3:50 AM

Room4more:

David,

All you have given is some cheap fly-by rhetoric, where's the evidence behind your words?

 

Tiresome. Even though my questions have gone unanswered, I will submit my evidence. I'm not going to fine-tooth comb the whole book, but just give a decent example. I could, of course, just do what Yeishuu`a did when the Pharisees refused to answer His questions and just say, "Stew in your own juice, then." But I will relent this little bit.

Just a brief statement to prime the pump...prophecy is a witness of YHWH's power across time, and as such both the initial evidence and the fulfilling evidence constitute prophecy, because both elements speak to His power. Prophecy is NOT just prediction...it is fulfillment as well, since without fulfillment, the prediction is just hot air.

Neh. 9:36, 37

Verse 36 is a prophecy against Jn. 8:33. In verse 37, there is a fulfillment reference from Deut. 17:4-15 and more clearly from 1 Sam. 8:10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20. The final phrase from verse 37, "So we are in great distress", has a great deal of prophetic weight, as it draws from 1 Sam. 10:19. The distress that had come upon the nation because they had asked for a king so they could be "like the Gentiles" (look again at verses 19-20 of 1 Sam. 8) was eventually fulfilled in 1 Sam. 14:24, where "hard-pressed" speaks of the kind of oppression faced in Egypt when they were slaves (v. 36). This word is actually translated as "distressed" in the AV. The recognition and description of this distress comes from 1 Sam. 14:29, where "troubled" is the same word used to describe Achan's actions, which also brought great distress on Israel. It also is the word used to describe Ahab in 1 Kgs.18:17, 18, whose actions had resulted in the distress of great famine in the land.

This culminates, for Saul at least, in the prophetically prophound Wink Prov. 24:10, where "if you are slack in the day of distress" [not "faint" as in the ESV] describes Saul's condition and much more. This is shown in 1 Sam. 15:16 where Samuel's call against Saul isn't the NASB's "Wait!", the ESV's "Stop!", The Message's "Enough!", or the NKJV's "Be quiet!" Instead, it is a pronouncement of charge and condemnation against the Benjamite king--"SLACK!!" Saul's actions were not yaashaar--i.e. straight and upright and taut, per Prov. 4:11, 12, 13 (where "let go" means "slacken")--but his actions were instead slack, bowed, and bent...which is fully appropriate for the son of a man whose name, Qiysh (Kish) means "bowed" or "bent". 

What accounts for the failure of the various translations to properly convey the prophetically pregnant charge against Saul? Nothing less than their unvarying commitment to a dull and light-headed approach to understanding Scripture, which merely makes this one of many scathing indictments of the darling poster-child of all "proper" Christian hermeneutics and exegesis...the idea that you interpret by MusicMusicMusic and the angels sing!! MusicMusicMusic !!THE CONTEXT!! ("Bow before the god of Context!! Kiss his caduceus!!). This single hermeneutic and exegetic fallacy, which deigns to call other approaches "fallacy", is responsible for obscuring hundreds of prophecies throughout the Bible. The interpretive hubris that enforces this nearly universal approach to Scriptural interpretation is one of many mechanisms YHWH has used to keep a seal upon His Word in accordance with Dan. 12:4, 9, 10. The very RULES of "responsible" exegesis are the fog machine that has clouded insight and left understanding hermetically sealed under the lock of hermeneutics.

Because they felt "wait", "stop", "enough", and "be quiet" FIT THE CONTEXT (please genuflect!) of the verse, the aforementioned *cough cough* professional exegetes ignore the overwhelming fact that the word NEVER MEANS ANY OF THOSE THINGS in any other context or usage in the Bible. Both incredible...and par for the course. 

Returning to our tiny window of prophetic insight, Prov. 18:9 and Prov. 24:10 [remember, "slacken"...not "faint"] are both tiny testimonies of prophetic concepts that mushroom out into expansive fields of interconnected prophetic threads that touch every single book of the Bible. Prov. 18:9 's "slackness in work" leads inevitably to a "day of distress" per Prov. 24:10 --and one of the places where these two verses display their prophetic one-two punch is...

SURPRISE, SURPRISE!!!   ...Neh. 6:1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14

The verses that most require our attention are Neh. 6:3, where "why should I stop work to leave" is properly "why should I stop work to slacken", and Neh. 6:9 's "they will become discouraged from the work" (NASB) or (ESV) "their hands will drop from the work" is properly "they will slacken their hands from the work". Those who find such representations "stilted" and complain they don't smoothly convey the narrative literally miss the entire point. Any sensibility that discourages work is slackness, and it results in distress. This is not light stuff, as Prov. 1:26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 together indicate (verse 27 speaking of this "distress").

We started off by looking at the distress mentioned in Neh. 9:37, and we will end by looking at distress in the same chapter, but a few verses earlier. The word itself is found in verse 27 from the following passage, which makes the cause of distress [not "suffering" as in ESV] clear: Neh. 9:26. 27. 28, 29. This source of distress never goes away, existing right up to the very end. Dan. 12:1 [distress rather than ESV's "trouble"] Dan. 12:2, 3, 4. The ability to fully and properly comprehend what is needful in order to alleviate the distress, though, is sealed off until the end. Blessedly, at that time, those with in-sight, who can see the things hidden in plain sight, will be able to unseal and de-fog the virgin understanding which has been lying fallow for millennia. Then the distress will subside..forever. [Except for a brief post-millennial hiccup.]

Of course, none of this will be without adversity. Prov. 1:22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27  Some, even many of those who are slack, will accuse those with insight of mishandling the Scriptures even as it is being unsealed and revealed. The inability to see what has been there all along will become the refusal to see what has been there all along. The cost of receiving sight will be deemed too great. Scoffing along with accusations of empty rhetoric will follow. Some just won't see it and will thus say it isn't really there. Prophecy says these same ones will see things that aren't there. So be it.

But the slack ones will have to give account. Prov. 24:9, 10, 11, 12 shows this clearly. Their animosity toward work will earn them a wage nonetheless. And the excuse that YHWH kept the way of right understanding from them will be taken from them by the ones who have insight. The revealing IS the point at which the recapitulation is expected to take place. To the seers, YHWH says Prov. 24:11, and to those with whom insight has been shared but not well-received, He says Prov. 24:12. Much is at stake, and it hinges on giving a proper response to the revelation that will be unsealed as the end approaches.

Room4more:

All you have given is some cheap fly-by rhetoric, where's the evidence behind your words?

But now, R4M, your accusation question makes me wonder if you didn't see any of this? Could this really be true? Are you a teacher of the forum and you do not know all these things? How can this be??

I see stuff that would make your head explode...that would make you cry like a little baby...things you can't image. What do you see?...I mean, besides the stuff that isn't really there. You want "evidence", do you? Be careful what you ask for...it may just pulverize you into dust.

There is a ton of stuff I deliberately overstepped, because, frankly, I don't toss my pearls just anywhere. Granted, Nehemiah might not have as much prophecy in it as Judges, Ruth, and 1 Samuel have, and obviously not as much as Proverbs. Proverbs is just one big prophecy magnet. But there's plenty there, trust me.

But even as I say that, I don't really expect you to. Hab. 1:5

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Posts 1534
Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 5 2013 5:22 AM

Nehemiah can certainly be a prophet without being explicitly labeled as such in our brief Biblical account, just as labeling others as prophets in the Bible doesn't make it so. 

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton

Posts 1517
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 5 2013 9:40 AM

David Ames:

Josh:

Did Nehemiah have a message from God to give to men?

"The title thus has a general application to all who have messages from God to men."
From: Easton’s Bible Dictionary (New York: Harper & Brothers

So does that make everyone that gives a sermon / homily a prophet? [[maybe just a micro micro one?]]

Depending on the content of the sermon, yes. Think about this in the negative. What does it take to be a false prophet? The Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary says a false prophet is a "person who spreads false messages and teachings, claiming to speak God’s words".

Posts 2589
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 8 2013 3:18 PM

[...]

As to David Paul's typology: Brother, a compelling exposition! It leaves me wanting more, actually. Hope to read more stuff like this on the forums, even if I might not end up agreeing 100%.

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 8 2013 5:02 PM

Lee:

[...]

As to David Paul's typology: Brother, a compelling exposition! It leaves me wanting more, actually. Hope to read more stuff like this on the forums, even if I might not end up agreeing 100%.

Well you could be right, but I was unawares that distress came from having to pay tribute/taxes to those who rule over you/me/us/them could make me a slave. / So did the Pharisee's lie? And who was it that the Pharisee's stoned outside the Gate, is this a reference to Stephen? / I thought the question is about Nehemiah being a Prophet and not a dissertation on being distressed......who kissed who's caduceus? what is that supposed to mean? / did he have to kiss someone's caduceus' and now he is in distress because he has to pay someone a tribute? / .... / ?

[edit: yup. I put this right next to this in the filing system. /?]

 

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 8 2013 6:30 PM

Lee:

[...]

As to David Paul's typology: Brother, a compelling exposition! It leaves me wanting more, actually. Hope to read more stuff like this on the forums, even if I might not end up agreeing 100%.

I am sorry I guess I just can't help myself:

"...darling poster-child of all "proper" Christian hermeneutics and exegesis...the idea that you interpret by MusicMusicMusic and the angels sing!! MusicMusicMusic !!THE CONTEXT!! ("Bow before the god of Context!! Kiss his caduceus!!)..." but aren't/isn't a caduceus part of classical mythology as being the staff carried by Mercury as a messenger of the gods / a representation of a forked staff with an entwining serpent, which is also used as a symbol of the medical profession and as the insignia of the American Medical Association and other medical organizations. 

So are we playing '20 questions yet' ?

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

Posts 3149
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 9 2013 5:53 AM

Jack Hairston:

Armwood:

Looking to see where in the Bible is it stated, that Nehemiah is a Prophet. I do not see it .

 

If someone asserts a factoid without evidence, I get to reject it without proving it wrong.

So do I.

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 29
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Jeremy Einfeld | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 9 2013 9:59 AM

Phil Gons:

Please abide by the following guidelines as you interact on our forums.

[...]

2. Please do not discuss or debate biblical, theological, or other controversial topics. Use one of the many web forums intended for these kinds of discussions.

3. Please treat each other with the love, courtesy, respect, and kindness that you would if you were sitting in your living room together.

[...]

Please keep this discussion civil, I have removed some posts that are not beneficial to the subject of this thread (which itself is questionable in light of the forum guidelines).

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 9 2013 10:17 AM

Jeremy Einfeld:

Phil Gons:

Please abide by the following guidelines as you interact on our forums.

[...]

2. Please do not discuss or debate biblical, theological, or other controversial topics. Use one of the many web forums intended for these kinds of discussions.

3. Please treat each other with the love, courtesy, respect, and kindness that you would if you were sitting in your living room together.

[...]

Please keep this discussion civil, I have removed some posts that are not beneficial to the subject of this thread (which itself is questionable in light of the forum guidelines).

Thank-you, Jeremy for the brief reminder....

 

R4m.

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 9 2013 4:21 PM

David Paul:
 

[...]

What accounts for the failure of the various translations to properly convey the prophetically pregnant charge against Saul? Nothing less than their unvarying commitment to a dull and light-headed approach to understanding Scripture, which merely makes this one of many scathing indictments of the darling poster-child of all "proper" Christian hermeneutics and exegesis...the idea that you interpret by MusicMusicMusic and the angels sing!! MusicMusicMusic !!THE CONTEXT!! ("Bow before the god of Context!! Kiss his caduceus!!). This single hermeneutic and exegetic fallacy, which deigns to call other approaches "fallacy", is responsible for obscuring hundreds of prophecies throughout the Bible.

[...]

just looking for clarity here:

 

is this supposed to be encouraging us to seek the graces of mythical god's and kiss their staves? /?..............

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

Posts 4625
RIP
Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 9 2013 8:00 PM

Jeremy Einfeld:

Phil Gons:

Please abide by the following guidelines as you interact on our forums.

[...]

2. Please do not discuss or debate biblical, theological, or other controversial topics. Use one of the many web forums intended for these kinds of discussions.

3. Please treat each other with the love, courtesy, respect, and kindness that you would if you were sitting in your living room together.

[...]

Please keep this discussion civil, I have removed some posts that are not beneficial to the subject of this thread (which itself is questionable in light of the forum guidelines).

Peace, Jeremy!    You are most genuinely appreciated!  Thank you for posting.            *smile*

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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Ted Weis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 9 2013 8:39 PM

Some scholars, shown here in a recent article published in JETS, think that Nehemiah fulfilled many of the prophecies in Daniel.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 9 2013 9:42 PM

Ted Weis:

Some scholars, shown here in a recent article published in JETS, think that Nehemiah fulfilled many of the prophecies in Daniel.

I added this to topics.logos.com so that it will appear in a topic search on Nehemiah the person or Daniel the book.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2589
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 10 2013 2:54 AM

The thrust of the article boils down to the interpretation of the waw-consecutive in Dan 9:24. Definitely one for the Hebrew experts...

Posts 2757
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 10 2013 6:15 AM

MJ. Smith:

Ted Weis:

Some scholars, shown here in a recent article published in JETS, think that Nehemiah fulfilled many of the prophecies in Daniel.

I added this to topics.logos.com so that it will appear in a topic search on Nehemiah the person or Daniel the book.

leslie mcfall has some interesting thoughts on Nehemiah.  "WE" all see Nehemiah as being Governor after he did the walls. Or was the book of Nehemiah written in flash back mode?  That is when Ezra came did he tell Governor Nehemiah to pack up and go home?  Why would someone with one with the most important job [cup bearer] want to become a mere Governor in a backward place like Judea?  Or had he done such a fine job as Governor in that backward place that he was offered the job of Cup Bearer?   Was Nehemiah the last Governor and was Ezra given self rule of Judea?  And then did the former Governor get sent back to show that yes, Judea has self rule and we [Artaxerxes] will come to their aid if needed as shown by sending Nehemiah back with solders. 
Posts 3149
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 10 2013 7:21 AM

Where did you find ,that Nehemia was a governor?

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 4625
RIP
Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 10 2013 8:28 AM

Peace, Tes!       *smile*       There were lots and lots of hits from this search:  nehemiah NEAR governor ........    One of the very many was:       From MacArthur ....

Background of the Passage

Europe is legendary for its beautiful cathedrals. The problem with many of these magnificent structures is that, while they possess physical grandeur, they are not inhabited by congregations that are spiritually vibrant. In reality, most of these edifices are nothing more than museums visited by gawking tourists. This phenomenon should remind us that the spiritual life is about internals, not externals.

The Old Testament Book of Nehemiah details the extraordinary accomplishment of the Jewish people, under the capable leadership of Governor Nehemiah, of rebuilding the walls of Jerusalem in only 52 days (chapters 1–6). But the remainder of the book (chapters 7–13) tells of an even more significant process—the spiritual renovation of the people who lived behind the walls.

Following the completion of the walls in the face of great opposition (chapters 3–6) and the genealogical “census” of the inhabitants of Jerusalem (chapter 7), a great convocation was held. In effect, Nehemiah called for a “Bible conference,” with Ezra the scribe as the special speaker.

At the rebuilt Water Gate, God’s law (probably the Book of Deuteronomy) was read and explained to a great assembly. The initial effect was that the people were convicted and grief-stricken regarding their failure to keep God’s law. But with the help of the Levites, Nehemiah convinced the people of God’s mercy and forgiveness. Consequently a profound sense of joy permeated the people of God. With great gladness, they celebrated the Feast of Tabernacles.

The result? Jerusalem was not only a city with an impressive new wall; it was a city populated by people with a new spirit and a new resolve to live in light of God’s Word![1]

[1] MacArthur, J. (2001). Nehemiah: Experiencing the Good Hand of God. MacArthur Bible Studies (73–74). Nashville, TN: W Publishing Group.



[1] MacArthur, J. (2001). Nehemiah: Experiencing the Good Hand of God. MacArthur Bible Studies (73–74). Nashville, TN: W Publishing Group.

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 3149
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 10 2013 10:06 AM

I would like to see  a quotation from the Bible,where it says Nehemia was a governor.I think there is a difference between being appointed as a Governor and the mission of rebuilding the walls of Jerusalem.

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 4625
RIP
Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 10 2013 12:34 PM

Peace, Tes!  Nehemiah 5:14 – Please check it out!

 German-English translation for "Statthalter" is:

 
governors · governor · gubernatorial · proconsul · vicegerent

14 Ich selbst verzichtete für mich und meine Verwandtschaft von Anfang an auf die Unterhaltskosten, die mir als Statthalter der Provinz Juda zustanden, die ganzen zwölf Jahre lang, vom 20. bis zum 32.Regierungsjahr des Königs Artaxerxes. [1]

 

            14.       Auch von der Zeit an, da mir befohlen ward, ihr Landpfleger zu sein im Lande Juda, nämlich vom zwanzigsten Jahr an bis in das zweiunddreißigste Jahr des Königs Arthahsastha, das sind zwölf Jahre, nährte ich mich und meine Brüder nicht von der Landpfleger Kost.[2]



[1] Gute Nachricht Bibel : Mit den Spätschriften des Alten Testaments. 2000 (Ne 5:14–15). Stuttgart, Germany: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft.

[2] Luther, M. (2001). Die Heilige Schrift nach der deutschen Übersetzung Martin Luthers (Ne 5:14). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Nehemiah, like others, had multiple tasks to perform!   *smile*        Blessings!

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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