Moody titles will be going away

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Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 7:10 AM

Is Mebin:

Michael Childs:

The loss of John MacArthur will be huge to Logos.

I will not see the loss of MacArthur as a loss...just my personal opinion...

Of course, it is always personal opinion as to what resources we buy.  I respect John MacArthur, though as a Wesleyan and non-dispensationalist, I disagree with him on many things.  In fact, about the only thing he writes that I am interested in is his New Testament Commentaries which I already have.  (I think he does a great job on the commentaries, and I am not intimidated by the parts of his theology that I disagree with.)  So I don't mean it will be a big loss to me, personally. 

I mean that John MacArthur is very popular, and a big seller.  The loss of his books will hurt Logos, if it cannot be corrected.  It will hurt Logos in relationship to rival software which will continue to carry MacArthur's works.  Because I care deeply about Logos' future - as well as my investment in Logos resources - I do indeed think the loss of John MacArthur is huge.

I don't mean to be a conspiracy nut, but is it possible that rival software is trying to get exclusive contracts with publishers of some popular resources in order to squeeze Logos out and increase their market share?

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 7:17 AM

Kent Hendricks:

Joshua Lieder:

What if we already purchased them?  Will we still have access please?

--Panic stricken Mdiv Student--

Yes. If you own the license to these books, you will retain access. We will not take books away that you own.

Hmmm...can I buy multiple copies of a license now, store them and "transfer" them to agreeable parties in the future?

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 7:42 AM

Kelvin Niblett:

This will be a loss

Probably not in the short term! I bought a few resources I didn't want to lose out on, I wonder how many Moody's resources were bought in the last day because of this....I bet more than a pittance!  
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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 8:10 AM

Don Awalt:
I wonder how many Moody's resources were bought in the last day because of this....I bet more than a pittance!  

I was thinking the same thing. I could not think of a more effective marketing campaign as people pull out all the stops to buy while they can.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 8:17 AM

Don Awalt:

Kelvin Niblett:

This will be a loss

Probably not in the short term! I bought a few resources I didn't want to lose out on, I wonder how many Moody's resources were bought in the last day because of this....I bet more than a pittance!  

I don't think every other week a major publisher should threaten Logos and us and thereby inducing last-minute sales - nevertheless I checked the Moody offers an bought these: http://www.logos.com/products/search?q=title%3a%22a+biblical+theology+of+the%22+publisher%3amoody - at least it seems Logos has a good price on them (as compared to a major bible software competitor or to Amazon).

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 8:19 AM

William Gabriel:
Hmmm...can I buy multiple copies of a license now, store them and "transfer" them to agreeable parties in the future?

I believe you would need to have each license under a different account. This was a practice of a few back in the Libronix days. They would buy several licenses as an "investment" and resell them at a profit. Yep, they sure did. Geeked

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 8:28 AM

NB.Mick:
I don't think every other week a major publisher should threaten Logos and us and thereby inducing last-minute sales

It reminds me of the kid who is losing at marbles. He can't compete so he takes his marbles and goes home. This ploy won't work more than a couple times because I can't drop $1000 every time a publisher pulls out. And I sure am not running over to another Bible software just because they have exclusive rights to Moody. 

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William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 8:49 AM

Bruce Dunning:

Don Awalt:
I wonder how many Moody's resources were bought in the last day because of this....I bet more than a pittance!  

I was thinking the same thing. I could not think of a more effective marketing campaign as people pull out all the stops to buy while they can.

STORE CLOSING!!! LAST DAY!!!

And of course, they'll see all the revenue and change their minds. Then everyone who stretched to make the last minute purchase will get upset. And since everyone accelerated their Moody purchases, they'll slow to a trickle and get pulled in a little while anyway...

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 9:08 AM

William Gabriel:

Bruce Dunning:

Don Awalt:
I wonder how many Moody's resources were bought in the last day because of this....I bet more than a pittance!  

I was thinking the same thing. I could not think of a more effective marketing campaign as people pull out all the stops to buy while they can.

STORE CLOSING!!! LAST DAY!!!

And of course, they'll see all the revenue and change their minds.

I do hope so in the interest of Logos, its users and the authors (and even Moody, although they seem not to see this right now).

But actually I'd expect that since producing these books is a major investment for Logos - which only pays off over time when the books are sold - the contract between publishers will usually allow for stopping to produce and sell new books, but not for pulling books from the store unless certain conditions such as a minimum duration on sale/minimum number of books sold/... are met for Logos. And even if not, such contracts will have termination clauses that stipulate a termination notice well in advance. At least that's how I would try to negotiate them. If this is so, Moody either buys Logos out of the contract (hope they shell out big $$$ to Bob, if so) or finds a loophole to get out of it by claiming a breach of contract on Logos' side. This then is something they do deliberately and won't change over a couple of dollars licence sales.

But maybe they come to their minds when they realize that it rather looks very dishonest for a Christian publisher to do so.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 9:24 AM

I was also thinking that normally, if I had a quantity of books I was going to order I would call sales and ask if they could give me a better price but in the flurry of it all I didn't even think of it. I'm not sure whether they would have given a discount anyhow in light of what is happening.

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LaRosa Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 9:32 AM

Michael Childs:
I don't mean to be a conspiracy nut, but is it possible that rival software is trying to get exclusive contracts with publishers of some popular resources in order to squeeze Logos out and increase their market share?

I'm not sure if this is the case or not, but I do know that recently lots of publishers have been trying to up their royalty rates when it comes time to renew their contracts with companies such as Logos. With higher royalty rates the Bible software companies have lower profit margins, which is not good for many given the amount of work that goes into some resources. It could simply be that Logos does not want to agree to a new & higher royalty rate from Moody, which means that when the current contract ends they can no longer sell their resources until a new agreement is reached.

I know this kind of stuff because I talked frequently with the guy who handled this stuff @ WORDsearch during my time there.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 9:38 AM

LaRosa Johnson:

Michael Childs:
I don't mean to be a conspiracy nut, but is it possible that rival software is trying to get exclusive contracts with publishers of some popular resources in order to squeeze Logos out and increase their market share?

I'm not sure if this is the case or not, but I do know that recently lots of publishers have been trying to up their royalty rates when it comes time to renew their contracts with companies such as Logos. With higher royalty rates the Bible software companies have lower profit margins, which is not good for many given the amount of work that goes into some resources. It could simply be that Logos does not want to agree to a new & higher royalty rate from Moody, which means that when the current contract ends they can no longer sell their resources until a new agreement is reached.

I know this kind of stuff because I talked frequently with the guy who handled this stuff @ WORDsearch during my time there.

If this is true it makes you wonder what the future will look like with other publishers.

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David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 9:51 AM

Bruce Dunning:

If this is true it makes you wonder what the future will look like with other publishers.

  As a former employee of Moody Bookstore, I know that when Moody closed its retail division and leased its stores to Lifeway; there is always part of the story that is unknown to the public.   Ironically, it was Moody Graduate School (now Moody Theological Seminary) that introduced me to Logos Software 10 years ago and it is still a required purchase for any student taking Biblical Language courses at MTS.   I would be very surprised if there were not some sort of merger or acquisition happening behind the scenes and we will soon see a bigger part of this picture.

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 10:33 AM

David Thomas:

Bruce Dunning:

If this is true it makes you wonder what the future will look like with other publishers.

  As a former employee of Moody Bookstore, I know that when Moody closed its retail division and leased its stores to Lifeway; there is always part of the story that is unknown to the public.   Ironically, it was Moody Graduate School (now Moody Theological Seminary) that introduced me to Logos Software 10 years ago and it is still a required purchase for any student taking Biblical Language courses at MTS.   I would be very surprised if there were not some sort of merger or acquisition happening behind the scenes and we will soon see a bigger part of this picture.

I appreciate your points David. Let us be careful of raw conjecture. Kent cannot tell us more, but no doubt there is much more to the story. Moody has for a long time had a strong relationship with Logos. Whatever the case let us be generous in our assessment of motives we have no idea of.

 I also have filled up my shopping cart, but have yet to empty my bank account by pushing the button. Pondering what to do.Huh?

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 11:33 AM

TCBlack:
 I also have filled up my shopping cart, but have yet to empty my bank account by pushing the button. Pondering what to do.Huh?

Better safe than sorry. Kent said it could end at any moment without notice.

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David Carter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 11:36 AM

TCBlack:
I also have filled up my shopping cart, but have yet to empty my bank account by pushing the button. Pondering what to do.Huh?

Maybe you should be hoping that the Moody titles aren't withdrawn while they are sitting in your cart! I was in the same position myself earlier with Macarthur sitting in my cart, I knew that I couldn't really afford to buy the collection today but by the same token I knew I would kick myself if I had missed out on the opportunity to buy while I had the chance. So I closed my eyes and clicked my mouse.

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 11:42 AM

David Carter:
So I closed my eyes and clicked my mouse.
Does that help? I believe even if I close my eyes, my wife will still see. Surprise

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 5294
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 11:46 AM

I would doubt them pulling out from other software indeed, Olivetree just released a Moody book in the last week. I don't know the reasoning for them leaving Logos, but Logos this sort of thing has happened before WJKP pulled out leaving the DSB and Interpretation gone for many years- the Jerome Biblical Commentary was lost and hasn't made it back. Also some titles have been under development and Logos suddenly lost rights to even produce it. Logos also was forced to delay release of the Anchor defence library just days before it's release (it seems to me that it was over 6 months delayed while the contract issues were worked out). There are only a few titles from moody I am sad to see lost, and will not be purchasing the couple titles not owned by me that I am sad to see gone. As i said before TWOT is the biggest loss in my mind, Jensen's survey of Old and New testaments looks lie a loss to me too… Anyway they are books I can live without.

-Dan

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David Carter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 11:47 AM

TCBlack:

Does that help? I believe even if I close my eyes, my wife will still see. Surprise

So she will see how happy you will be! Surely Mrs TC wants you to be happy? Big SmileBig Smile
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Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 11 2013 11:56 AM

TCBlack:

David Carter:
So I closed my eyes and clicked my mouse.
Does that help? I believe even if I close my eyes, my wife will still see. Surprise

30 day rule! Smile

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

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