Moody titles will be going away

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 19 2013 5:03 AM

Although we will probably never know the details why the relationship between Logos and Moody is ending I would still like to know a general overview of why.

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Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 19 2013 5:11 AM

The thing that bothers me is that they have removed their publications from this particular Bible software program, but have left them in this particular ebook publisher.

Which would suggest that they plan on putting their resources in an exclusive Bible software program (likely LifeWay). But at the same time if you look at their required textbooks for their degrees, Logos 5 is mentioned over and over again.

Seems odd...

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

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William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 19 2013 5:31 AM

Paul Golder:

The thing that bothers me is that they have removed their publications from this particular Bible software program, but have left them in this particular ebook publisher.

Which would suggest that they plan on putting their resources in an exclusive Bible software program (likely LifeWay). But at the same time if you look at their required textbooks for their degrees, Logos 5 is mentioned over and over again.

Seems odd...

The school year is just about over. Much can change over the course of a summer.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 19 2013 6:21 AM

Paul Golder:

The thing that bothers me is that they have removed their publications from this particular Bible software program, but have left them in this particular ebook publisher.

Which would suggest that they plan on putting their resources in an exclusive Bible software program (likely LifeWay). But at the same time if you look at their required textbooks for their degrees, Logos 5 is mentioned over and over again.

I don't think that's the case at all, although I have no inside knowledge. Kent said that the contract is up for renewal and the terms for renewal can't yet be agreed. I hope it's just brinkmanship from both Logos and Moody, with Moody holding out for a higher percentage of ''royalties', and Logos not wanting to offer more than it has to, in order to keep costs down for us.

If there was a plan to permanently remove Moody from Logos, I think there would have been a big 'closing down sale', rather than just a note of the forums. The way that this has been rushed suggests that everyone was hoping a deal might be agreed, but it's just not happened yet.

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tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 19 2013 6:21 AM

Bruce Dunning:

Although we will probably never know the details why the relationship between Logos and Moody is ending I would still like to know a general overview of why.

Based on Kent's statemement on the 7th page, it sounds to me that it is all about $$$$.

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davidphillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 19 2013 6:50 AM

Paul Golder:

The thing that bothers me is that they have removed their publications from this particular Bible software program, but have left them in this particular ebook publisher.

Which would suggest that they plan on putting their resources in an exclusive Bible software program (likely LifeWay). But at the same time if you look at their required textbooks for their degrees, Logos 5 is mentioned over and over again.

Seems odd...

i received my m. Div. From moody, and the vast majority of our required texts were not from Moody publishers, so while it may be strange that the publishing division of moody is no longer going take their works available on logos, that does not mean the profs don't like logos and can't continue to encourage and even require it. The goal was never that all our textbooks would be available electronically, but that we would be able to effectively use electronic tools And resources in the exegetical process. I graduated 5.5 years ago, they may feel differently now, and it certainly is possible that a lot could change over the summer semester, but I would be very surprised if the change at moody publishers would have much of an impact at the seminary.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 19 2013 6:53 AM

Mark Barnes:
If there was a plan to permanently remove Moody from Logos, I think there would have been a big 'closing down sale', rather than just a note of the forums. The way that this has been rushed suggests that everyone was hoping a deal might be agreed, but it's just not happened yet.

Reflecting back on my personal reaction (and from what I can gather the reaction of my Logos uses here), I purchased quite a few Moody resources that I was afraid may never be offered again. I felt pressured to make a purchase quickly so as not to lose out. The initial announcement said that it could happen any time without notice (which contributed to the panic). Since the announcement I've made several smaller purchases which we probably not the best way to do it.

If this is all part of a "bargaining process" that results in Logos once again carrying Moody resources it will be a bit upsetting for me as I would feel like a bit of a pawn in the battle. In this case I would hope Logos would offer some special rebate for those of us who made these last minute purchases.

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Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 19 2013 7:02 AM

This is a very bad precedent.  If Logos loses other major publishers, it will certainly devalue the entire platform.  Publishers now have many attractive options for e-book distribution, albeit without Logos' powerful tagging and search features.  I pray that Logos and Moody will revisit this and come up with a workable solution for the sake of the Kingdom.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 19 2013 7:26 AM

Bruce Dunning:

Reflecting back on my personal reaction (and from what I can gather the reaction of my Logos uses here), I purchased quite a few Moody resources that I was afraid may never be offered again. I felt pressured to make a purchase quickly so as not to lose out. The initial announcement said that it could happen any time without notice (which contributed to the panic). Since the announcement I've made several smaller purchases which we probably not the best way to do it.

If this is all part of a "bargaining process" that results in Logos once again carrying Moody resources it will be a bit upsetting for me as I would feel like a bit of a pawn in the battle. In this case I would hope Logos would offer some special rebate for those of us who made these last minute purchases.

I've done exactly the same thing. That said, I'm sure Kent's post on this board was entirely for our benefit, rather than any attempt to use us as pawns. You can imagine the outcry that there would have been on here if suddenly the Moody titles had been removed with no notice at all.....

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 19 2013 7:35 AM

Tony Thomas:

This is a very bad precedent.  If Logos loses other major publishers, it will certainly devalue the entire platform.  Publishers now have many attractive options for e-book distribution, albeit without Logos' powerful tagging and search features.  I pray that Logos and Moody will revisit this and come up with a workable solution for the sake of the Kingdom.

Moody isn't a major player in the market, at least not in the academic field.  For the sake of others who appreciate their publications I would hope this eventually works out, but as far as I'm concerned it makes little or no difference.  And yes, it's all about money.  I understand Moody substantially raised their demands on royalties.

george
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יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 19 2013 7:53 AM

Now this is interesting, a 2008 quote from Greg Thornton, Moody Publishers writing on electronic resources:

"A starting point is simply licensing your content to software/digital producers like Logos and
Olive Tree (their software now runs on Palm and Pocket PC, iPod, BlackBerry and more).
Better is to begin developing your own digital warehouse."

(emphasis added)

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 19 2013 7:58 AM

Rather than editing my post I will post a separate follow-up so that all interested parties will receive a copy.

It would appear that Moody is being penny-wise and pound-foolish.  They appear to have previously been satisfied with the royalties they were receiving and might have expected some increase in their amount, but rather than being satisfied with a normal increase it appears that they were demanding an exorbitant increase.  They appear to have never heard that half a loaf is better than no loaf at all.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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papa_gowgow | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 19 2013 8:03 AM

Tony Thomas:

This is a very bad precedent.  If Logos loses other major publishers, it will certainly devalue the entire platform. 

I agree that it would be a shame if this started a snowball effect that led to the Logos brand being less than it is, but I cannot agree with your sentiment: 

Tony Thomas:

 I pray that Logos and Moody will revisit this and come up with a workable solution for the sake of the Kingdom.

 

The Kingdom is more robust than to be threatened by the battles of men.  If Logos some day ends I will be disappointed at the loss of a tool, and aggrieved at the loss of money I have invested, but I will continue to serve the Lord any way I can, a poorer and more humble servant assuredly.

Let's try and look beyond the threats to Logos, use it while we can, but be ready for the next challenge in our lives. 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 19 2013 8:15 AM

Tony Thomas:
Publishers now have many attractive options for e-book distribution, albeit without Logos' powerful tagging and search features.

How beneficial is tagging to Moody books? You can find a copy of E.V. Hill's "A Savior Worth Having" on Logos for $17.99 and on Vyrso for $6.82. I guess the only difference is one is hardback and the other paperback. Stick out tongue How upset would you be to see all the Moody books show up in Vyrso at half the price we just bought them for?

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 19 2013 8:18 AM

Paul Golder:

Now this is interesting, a 2008 quote from Greg Thornton, Moody Publishers writing on electronic resources:

"A starting point is simply licensing your content to software/digital producers like Logos and
Olive Tree (their software now runs on Palm and Pocket PC, iPod, BlackBerry and more).
Better is to begin developing your own digital warehouse."

(emphasis added)

Interesting indeed.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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Paul-C | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 19 2013 8:25 AM

Paul Golder:

Now this is interesting, a 2008 quote from Greg Thornton, Moody Publishers writing on electronic resources:

"A starting point is simply licensing your content to software/digital producers like Logos and
Olive Tree (their software now runs on Palm and Pocket PC, iPod, BlackBerry and more).
Better is to begin developing your own digital warehouse."

(emphasis added)

Looks like we're going to get the Betamax / VHS race in digital Bible resources too. Surprise

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 19 2013 8:41 AM

George Somsel:
Moody isn't a major player in the market, at least not in the academic field.

Agreed.

  • There are presently 10,725 products (not volumes) listed on Logos.com.
  • Moody has 275 products listed today.
  • Moody's listings comprise one/thirty-ninth of the total listings or 2.6%.
  • Logos lists 20 publishers (including Moody)
  • Moody will continue selling ebooks in Vyrso.

I think it is premature to order the casket for Logos.

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Sogol | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 19 2013 8:42 AM

Paul Golder:

Better is to begin developing your own digital warehouse."

Like Pradis?

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Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 19 2013 8:49 AM

Sogol:

Paul Golder:

Better is to begin developing your own digital warehouse."

Like Pradis?

Now that's funny.

I am slightly expecting a press release that sounds something like this:

"Today Moody Publishing and LifeWay announced a new partnership. This unique collaboration will blah, blah, blah..."

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 19 2013 8:52 AM

Super Tramp:

George Somsel:
Moody isn't a major player in the market, at least not in the academic field.

Agreed.

  • There are presently 10,725 products (not volumes) listed on Logos.com.
  • Moody has 275 products listed today.
  • Moody's listings comprise one/thirty-ninth of the total listings or 2.6%.
  • Logos lists 20 publishers (including Moody)
  • Moody will continue selling ebooks in Vyrso.

I think it is premature to order the casket for Logos.

Absolutely.  There are 320 resources which show up in Logos when executing a search "&publisher=Eerdmans."  While that isn't significantly more than for Moody (e.g., double), it would be a much greater loss if they were to lose Eerdmans since they publish higher quality works.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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