Moody titles will be going away

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David Wilson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 20 2013 3:46 PM

Not a problem Bruce:

If it gets others to post about when they have had similar experiences and when not, it may be easier to track down and fix the bug that is causing the issue. Then everyone will benefit ! Smile

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 20 2013 6:09 PM

David J. Wilson:
If it gets others to post about when they have had similar experiences and when not, it may be easier to track down and fix the bug that is causing the issue. Then everyone will benefit !

+1 Smile

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Posts 2824
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 20 2013 6:49 PM

Dean053:

Moody is probably my least represented publisher--I've bought nothing unless it has come in a package. Is Moody really that important for most Logos users?

 

It is important to a sizable number.  There would not be 15 plus pages of comments on this thread if no one cared.  John MacArthur is a big seller, for example.  Whether or not he matters to you, it will effect Logos in my opinion. 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 20 2013 6:51 PM

tom:

Bruce Dunning:

Although we will probably never know the details why the relationship between Logos and Moody is ending I would still like to know a general overview of why.

Based on Kent's statemement on the 7th page, it sounds to me that it is all about $$$$.

Of course it is all about money.  I do not mean that to be a negative statement about either company.  Both are trying to maximize profits.  It is called capitalism.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 20 2013 8:20 PM

Moody Publishers wrote me back:

Thank you for voicing your concerns regarding the removal of Moody titles
from Logos Bible Software.
Moody Publishers is aware of this action and your concerns have been
forwarded.

Sincerely,
Moody Publishers Customer Service

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 20 2013 8:53 PM

Josh:

Moody Publishers wrote me back:

Thank you for voicing your concerns regarding the removal of Moody titles
from Logos Bible Software.
Moody Publishers is aware of this action and your concerns have been
forwarded.

Sincerely,
Moody Publishers Customer Service

I think all of us who wrote to them received the same letter. The letter I would be even more interested to receive is if they actually do something about it but I will not hold my breath for that response.

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Jim Poulsen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 20 2013 9:37 PM

In case you don't know, Moody Publishers is part of a not-for-profit ministry. This means Moodys bottom line is reinvested in the ministry. Their financial statements are published on the internet.  I'm glad i picked up a number of their titles before they left Logos and I will continue to buy their materials on other platforms.

JP

Moody Publishers' Unique Role in Worldwide Evangelism

Moody founded BICA merely eight years after beginning only the nation’s second Bible school. Moody Bible Institute (MBI) today is one of the most well-known evangelical institutions training and equipping young people for the mission field at home and abroad, pastoral positions, as well as other various forms of ministry. Moody Publishers continues to operate as the publishing arm of MBI.

This fact alone makes Moody Publishers unique in the Christian publishing business. Our profits are channeled back to MBI to support the tuition-paid education of more than 1,500 students. Every book that Moody Publishers publishes contributes in a significant way to the training of students who will carry the gospel to all corners of the world.

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David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 21 2013 6:07 AM

Super Tramp:

Josh:
What are you going to do in 5 years after you've read them all?

btw: Logos has purged the website of all copyrighted Moody titles except the AM Bible Courseware. 

  FWIW: I believe AM Courseware was published as a partnership with Moody Distance Learning and was never a product of Moody Publishers. Currently Moody Bible Institute has 3 divisions (Education, Broadcasting & Publishing). AM Courseware was a produce of the Education division. The recent copyright agreement issue has been with the Publishing division.  As such, I don't believe Moody Publishers ever had any copyright claims on the AM courseware. Also, this is one reason why the Seminary may continue to heavily use Logos even if Publishing has some licensing issues. My experience has always been that the professors had little (no) pressure to use Moody Publisher resources--they were permitted to use whatever texts best contributed to their learning outcomes.   yes, they are divisions within one organization, but I know in my local church the nursery volunteers and the youth ministry volunteers don't place a huge value on coordinating curriculum so that they contribute to specific outcomes. Each ministry kind of does what they think is best for their ministry as it relates to their role to the overarching vision statement.   Moody Publisher has an obligation to its authors and its profitability. Education has a responsibility to its students and its credentialing agencies.   I guess in Logos, this is why some resources are available for the desktop program that are not available in mobile or some resources are bundled in the Faithlife App that are not part of the Free Engine download. -- they are under the same umbrella company but the various divisions have different agreements.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 21 2013 6:35 AM

Michael Childs:

Dean053:

Moody is probably my least represented publisher--I've bought nothing unless it has come in a package. Is Moody really that important for most Logos users?

It is important to a sizable number.  There would not be 15 plus pages of comments on this thread if no one cared.  John MacArthur is a big seller, for example.  Whether or not he matters to you, it will effect Logos in my opinion.

In pure product numbers, Moody was among the top seven publishers ( http://www.logos.com/publishers?sort=count#goM ) with more products than e.g. Fortress, Zondervan, SPCK or Crossway, much more than e.g. IVP and Tyndale combined. No idea how that turned out saleswise.

FWIW, it seems Moody is still #5 in the Vyrso publisher ranking, but we all know Vyrso is much less well suited for commentaries and theology stuff that profits from extensive cross-linking.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 21 2013 12:28 PM

NB.Mick:
Moody was among the top seven publishers ( http://www.logos.com/publishers?sort=count#goM ) with more products than e.g. Fortress, Zondervan, SPCK or Crossway, much more than e.g. IVP and Tyndale combined.

However, each of those other publishers offers more of value for research purposes than Moody did. The great majority of Moody's products are more suited to Vyrso than to the Logos format.

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 21 2013 12:54 PM

Jack Caviness:
However, each of those other publishers offers more of value for research purposes than Moody did. The great majority of Moody's products are more suited to Vyrso than to the Logos format.
I agree.  I am wondering if we could get the resources that were pulled from Logos on Vyrso?  I don't know because I do not have any Moody's books.

Posts 331
Mathew Haferkamp | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 21 2013 1:06 PM

 

However, each of those other publishers offers more of value for research purposes than Moody did. The great majority of Moody's products are more suited to Vyrso than to the Logos format.

 

  I would disagree with that for instance you have John MacArthur, Erwin Lutzer, Charles C. Ryrie, Dr. Albert Mohler, to name a few, and if you may have read some of them they are very much based in scripture.

Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 21 2013 1:18 PM

It would be nice if they could at least negotiate for the MacArthur Bible Commentaries. I have several volumes and would like to buy more.  I am sure John MacArthur would not be pleased to know that his commentaries have been pulled from the #1 Bible study platform.  I have written to gty.org to see if anything can be worked out and encourage others to do the same.

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Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 21 2013 2:02 PM

Mathew Haferkamp:
  I would disagree with that for instance you have John MacArthur, Erwin Lutzer, Charles C. Ryrie, Dr. Albert Mohler, to name a few, and if you may have read some of them they are very much based in scripture.
I am not saying that they are not based on scripture.  I am saying that they are more suited as Vyrso than Logos.  

Remember that all Vyrso books can be read in L5 & can be searched.

What these books do not have is a lot of (if any) tagging outside the links to scripture (and Vyrso books are tagged when the automated script finds scripture).

Posts 1493
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 21 2013 3:05 PM

tom:

I am not saying that they are not based on scripture.  I am saying that they are more suited as Vyrso than Logos. 

How would MacArthur's commentaries (or the Everyman's Bible Commentary Series) be "more suited" for "Vyrso than Logos"? Also, I don't think Ryrie's study bible and vast theological work - like his systematic theology book, Basic Theology - would work well with Vysro either.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 21 2013 3:40 PM

tom:

Mathew Haferkamp:
  I would disagree with that for instance you have John MacArthur, Erwin Lutzer, Charles C. Ryrie, Dr. Albert Mohler, to name a few, and if you may have read some of them they are very much based in scripture.
I am not saying that they are not based on scripture.  I am saying that they are more suited as Vyrso than Logos.  

Remember that all Vyrso books can be read in L5 & can be searched.

What these books do not have is a lot of (if any) tagging outside the links to scripture (and Vyrso books are tagged when the automated script finds scripture).

Tom, the automated scripture tagging for Vyrso is not capable of getting commentaries right. Thus, it resolves about 90% wrong (and wrong scripture links are worse than none) - actually, following the massive complaints in the forum about Vyrso commentaries, Logos has pulled all but three vyrso books from the respective category and one of the three seems a mis-attribution to me, the other two are showcases for not to do commentaries in Vyrso. Not only many of the now vanished John MacArthur books are commentaries in a narrow or broader sense, I think this probably holds true for many others of the former Moody works, too. And since Vyrso books typically sell at much lower prices, I don't really think Moody will get a much larger share by putting books to Vyrso that once were available for Logos. Still hoping they get to their senses. Mick 

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 21 2013 3:45 PM

NB.Mick:
Tom, the automated scripture tagging for Vyrso is not capable of getting commentaries right. Thus, it resolves about 90% wrong (and wrong scripture links are worse than none) - actually, following the massive complaints in the forum about Vyrso commentaries, Logos has pulled all but three vyrso books from the respective category and one of the three seems a mis-attribution to me, the other two are showcases for not to do commentaries in Vyrso.

I knew that it wasn't great but I didn't realize that it was quite that bad.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 21 2013 4:17 PM

Bruce Dunning:
I knew that it wasn't great but I didn't realize that it was quite that bad.

It's not the most edifying discussion, but see here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/56892.aspx and here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/63017.aspx (there are responses from Logos employees, including Bob, on the second page).

Basically, with Vyrso, you get no page numbers (usually), no Bible milestones, and any partial Bible references (such as v2, rather than Col 3:2) are likely to end up linked to the wrong place. The latter two problems essentially render Vyrso commentaries little better than Kindle books.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 21 2013 5:16 PM

Mark Barnes:

Bruce Dunning:
I knew that it wasn't great but I didn't realize that it was quite that bad.

It's not the most edifying discussion, but see here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/56892.aspx and here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/63017.aspx (there are responses from Logos employees, including Bob, on the second page).

Basically, with Vyrso, you get no page numbers (usually), no Bible milestones, and any partial Bible references (such as v2, rather than Col 3:2) are likely to end up linked to the wrong place. The latter two problems essentially render Vyrso commentaries little better than Kindle books.

Thanks Mark, Somehow I missed both of these conversations last fall/winter. Although it wasn't easy to read it did help provide a better understanding of things.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 21 2013 5:51 PM

Mathew Haferkamp:
I would disagree with that for instance you have John MacArthur, Erwin Lutzer

Neither MacArthur nor Lutzer have much to offer in the research department. I own everything offered in Logos by both of them. MacArthur's commentaries are all pastoral, with some decent sermon material, but little for research purposes. Lutzer is much the same.

Ryrie does have some material that is good for in depth study—and I also have all of his work that Logos offers, but the other publishers offer more.

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