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Martin Grainger Dean | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Apr 17 2013 12:23 PM
God (YHWH) as Father in Old Testament? I mean where in Old Testament YHWH is called Father? I found something in BSL but it won't show the biblical references. Thanks, Martin.
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David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 17 2013 1:09 PM

Martin Grainger Dean:
God (YHWH) as Father in Old Testament? I mean where in Old Testament YHWH is called Father? I found something in BSL but it won't show the biblical references. Thanks, Martin.

I believe this should do it <Lemma = lbs/he/יהוה> ANDEQUALS father <H1254>

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Martin Grainger Dean | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 17 2013 1:25 PM
Hmmm. 0 results?
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David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 17 2013 1:40 PM

Perhaps that is because YHWH is never translated as Father

 

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David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 17 2013 1:54 PM

 

from this snip in the referent database, I found that ab refers to God 9 times (1 in Deut, 3 in Isa, 4 in Jer and 1 in Mal). However, I seem to recall that the referent database is not searchable.

I found this by doing a BWS on "Father" then looking through the senses.

I don't have a reference list, but searching for ab in the 4 books listed may narrow it down for you.

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Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 17 2013 3:27 PM

Martin Grainger Dean:
God (YHWH) as Father in Old Testament? I mean where in Old Testament YHWH is called Father? I found something in BSL but it won't show the biblical references. Thanks, Martin.

Well you won't come across God equaling Father, but there are verses where there is the similitude of God being like or as to the same as a Father...

Like: Ps 103.13

But in the NT we can see a major shift in the God = Father,,,

 

R4m.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 18 2013 2:50 AM

David Thomas:
from this snip in the referent database, I found that ab refers to God 9 times (1 in Deut, 3 in Isa, 4 in Jer and 1 in Mal)

I couldn't get the references in Bible Sense Lexicon and the spark graph is hopeless compared with the one in BWS Senses (as you found). Searching for "ab" produces 162 results in the 4 books listed. The sense of "father" as God is well developed in the NT and Bible Facts | God shows 224x, but nothing for the OT, so we have to look for "God" + "our father".  So I tried

(God, Lord, Yahweh, Jehovah) BEFORE 6 WORD  "our father"

and it gave Is 63:16; 64:8 and possibly 1 Chron 29:10 (depends on the translation).

A Clause Search for person:God  person:A Father  gets closer, though, because it uses referents:-

Deut 32:6, Is 63:16 (2x); 64:8, Jer 3:19; 31:9, Mal 1:6.  (all with ab for "father")

Whilst it gave more results in Jeremiah, it didn't have the four we are after.

So the mystery is the missing 2 "senses" in Jeremiah.

Dave
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Martin Grainger Dean | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 18 2013 6:38 AM
Dave Hooton:
So the mystery is the missing 2 "senses" in Jeremiah.
Maybe another one is Jer 3:4 (after run BWS on "ab" in Jeremiah). But the last one is untraceable. Martin.
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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 18 2013 2:47 PM

Martin Grainger Dean:
Maybe another one is Jer 3:4

Clause Search mucks misses that one because "father" is tagged as person:God; not person:A father.

EDIT: Milford (below) mentions Mal 2:10 where "father" has the sense God == father (and is also  tagged as person:God).

It could be the proper "sense" for Malachi as "father" in Mal 1:6 does not have the sense God == father. So we are still missing the "sense" from Jeremiah. 

Clause Search confuses the issue by listing  Person:God (Father) with person:A Father when I enter person:God. Another time I get only person:God with the expected possibilities (and no person:A Father). But they both give the same result.

Dave
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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 18 2013 4:57 PM

Peace to all!                   I remember very clearly one of my Professors making a strong point to our class in the mid 1950's (Old Testament Studies!), strongly condemning the secular teaching about ...      "The Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Man!"          I have no idea where my notes are!    *smile*

I'm sure he meant the the "brotherhood of mankind -- or humanity," eh??               He said that the concept of God as Father was NOT really elucidated in the Old Testament.

Isaiah 9:6 is actually a prophecy of Jesus ...

                How remarkable then indeed is Jesus teaching the disciples to pray, "Our Father ....."             And, John 20:17!!!  That's The New Testament (Covenant)!

One of the passages my Professor quoted was Malachi 2:10 ....

 

The screen shot may or may not show up due to problems with Logos Forums Software .....

Edit:        Then there is Isaiah 63:16!           That's a good one, eh???   Also, very good ones are: 

Isaiah 64:8 and  Deuteronomy 32:6

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 18 2013 7:19 PM

Milford Charles Murray:
One of the passages my Professor quoted was Malachi 2:10 ....

Milford,

Thanks for supplying that passage (see the EDIT to my previous post)!

Dave
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Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 19 2013 5:23 AM

........Not meaning to hi-jack or any intentions thereof:

But if one was to really study the topical concept of God = Father, the OT is full of the Idea[similitude] that God is our Father. Malachi 2:10, is a great verse to start with. Here we have the trueness that Adam was/is the Father of Humanity, remembering the God created Adam and from there it was that humanity/brotherhood  sprang forth.

While in the NT we see that God brings forth a Son through Mary, thus embellishing the new Convenant that we are/can become the Sons [children] of God, the clear separation of physical birth and Spiritual Birth. Jn 20:17, is a clear representation of the new Covenant: Jesus is fully knowledgeable that God is his Father and our's [Spiritual], in this same breath Jesus also acknowledges that God IS his God as well as should be our God [applicable to both Spiritual and Physical]....

It makes for a good discussion when all parties involved exemplify the Scriptures.

 

Just a thought for you to consider................

 

 

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