Make the ESV Reverse Interlinear available for purchase outside of the base packages

Page 2 of 3 (44 items) < Previous 1 2 3 Next >
This post has 43 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 5615
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 22 2009 6:37 PM

George Somsel:
Compare for yourself

Perhaps I wasn't clear.  When I said standard interlinear I meant something like the NA27 Interlinear:

6   ἦν   δὲ   ἐκεῖ   πηγὴ   τοῦ   Ἰακώβ .     οὖν   Ἰησοῦς   κεκοπιακὼς   ἐκ   τῆς  
was but there spring of the Jacob The then Jesus having labored from the
ὁδοιπορίας   ἐκαθέζετο   οὕτως   ἐπὶ   τῇ   πηγῇ ·   ὥρα   ἦν   ὡς   ἕκτη .
walking travel he was sitting thusly on the spring hour was as sixth


I was originally pointing out the difference between a standard interlinear(Greek as primary text) and a reverse interlinear (ESV translation as primary text). 

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 22 2009 6:56 PM

Todd Phillips:

George Somsel:
Compare for yourself

Perhaps I wasn't clear.  When I said standard interlinear I meant something like the NA27 Interlinear:

6   ἦν   δὲ   ἐκεῖ   πηγὴ   τοῦ   Ἰακώβ .     οὖν   Ἰησοῦς   κεκοπιακὼς   ἐκ   τῆς  
was but there spring of the Jacob The then Jesus having labored from the
ὁδοιπορίας   ἐκαθέζετο   οὕτως   ἐπὶ   τῇ   πηγῇ ·   ὥρα   ἦν   ὡς   ἕκτη .
walking travel he was sitting thusly on the spring hour was as sixth


I was originally pointing out the difference between a standard interlinear(Greek as primary text) and a reverse interlinear (ESV translation as primary text). 

I don't see that that changes anything.  The same words are there except they are placed in the order of the Greek words.  What is the difference whether you say "To town he went" or "He went to town"? (Not intended as an actual example) 

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 172
Chris Ease | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 22 2009 6:59 PM

The Lexham Greek-English interlinear is nice.  I don't have BDAG, but I have Louw-Nida, Anlex, Strongs, and another semantic domain lexicon.  I purchased the Lexham on Pre-pub and enjoy it, although I am weak in the Greek language.  The Greek is morphologically tagged and can be keylinked to your favorite lexicon.  It was cheaper than NA27.  The English translation is a fresh one according to the preface and the Greek if I'm not mistaken is from UBS 4, similar to NA27.

Posts 172
Chris Ease | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 22 2009 7:02 PM

  6   ἦν   δὲ   ἐκεῖ   πηγὴ   τοῦ   Ἰακώβ .    
ēn de ekei pēgē tou Iakōb ho
was4 and1 there5 well3 Jacob’s2
εἰμί δέ ἐκεῖ πηγή Ἰακώβ
eimi  de  ekei  pēgē  ho  Iakōb  ho 
VIAI3S CLN BP NNSF DGSM XP DNSM
to be and there spring, well the Jacob the
85.1 89.87 83.2 7.57 92.24 93.157 92.24
2258 1161 1563 4077 3588 2384

3588

 

οὖν   Ἰησοῦς   κεκοπιακὼς   ἐκ  

τῆς

 
oun Iēsous kekopiakōs ek tēs
so Jesus [because he] had become tireda from the
οὖν Ἰησοῦς κοπιάω ἐκ
oun  Iēsous  kopiaō  ek  ho 
CLI NNSM VRAP-SNM P DGSF
then, so Jesus to become weary, to become tired from the
89.50 93.169 23.78 89.25 92.24
3767 2424 2872 1537 3588

ὁδοιπορίας   ἐκαθέζετο   οὕτως   ἐπὶ   τῇ   πηγῇ ·  
hodoiporias ekathezeto houtōs epi pēgē
journey sat down thus at the well
ὁδοιπορία καθέζομαι οὕτως ἐπί πηγή
hodoiporia  kathezomai  houtōs  epi  ho  pēgē 
NGSF VIUI3S B P DDSF NDSF
journey to sit down thus at, near the spring, well
15.20 17.12 61.9 83.23 92.24 7.57
3597 2516 3779 1909 3588 4077

ὥρα   ἦν   ὡς   ἕκτη
hōra ēn hōs hektē
hour4 it was1 about2 the sixth3
ὥρα εἰμί ὡς ἕκτος
hōra  eimi  hōs  hektos 
NNSF VIAI3S CAM JNSF
hour to be about, approximately sixth
67.199 13.1 78.42 60.53
5610 2258 5613 1623

The Lexham Greek-English Interlinear New Testament. 2008 (255). Logos Research Systems, Inc.

 

Posts 172
Chris Ease | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 22 2009 7:07 PM

6   ἦν   δὲ   ἐκεῖ   πηγὴ   τοῦ   Ἰακώβ .     οὖν   Ἰησοῦς  
was4 and1 there5 well3 Jacob’s2 so Jesus

κεκοπιακὼς   ἐκ   τῆς   ὁδοιπορίας  
[because he] had become tireda from the journey

ἐκαθέζετο   οὕτως   ἐπὶ   τῇ   πηγῇ ·   ὥρα   ἦν   ὡς  
sat down thus at the well hour4 it was1 about2

ἕκτη .
the sixth3

The Lexham Greek-English Interlinear New Testament. 2008 (255). Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Previous reply showed the same verse, although not formatted as nice as on the Logos screen, with Greek manuscript, transliterated, English literal, Lemma, Lemma transliteration, morphology, English lexical, Louw-Nida #, and Strongs number.  This post is just Greek manuscript and English Literal.  In the view section of Logos you can promote where you want this information and you can subtract the stuff you don't want.

Greek Only View:

6 ἦν δὲ ἐκεῖ πηγὴ τοῦ Ἰακώβ. οὖν Ἰησοῦς κεκοπιακὼς ἐκ τῆς ὁδοιπορίας ἐκαθέζετο οὕτως ἐπὶ τῇ πηγῇ· ὥρα ἦν ὡς ἕκτη.

The Lexham Greek-English Interlinear New Testament. 2008 (255). Logos Research Systems, Inc.
Posts 134
Esther Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 22 2009 7:14 PM

George Somsel:

EstherJones:

Still, I would like to point out that if I had had the chance to purchase those, then realized that they were of no use to me unless I studied the original languages myself, it might have spurred me on to greater efforts in that direction.  And surely that's a good thing.

Esther

I would agree that having an impetus to learn the original languages is a good thing, but I should point out that it is a lengthy path which involves much work if one is to attain any proficiency.  If one doesn't gain at least a certain level of proficiency then the effort may not be totally wasted, but it isn't all that productive. 

A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or touch not the Pierian spring;
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.

Alexander Pope
An Essay on Criticism

I notice your quotes both in this post and in your signature line--they are not scripture, nor based on scripture, but rather of famous men, maybe even fathers of the faith.  That is all well and good, but what does God have to say about the pursuit of knowledge?

If you'll indulge this uneducated lay person, I'd like to encourage you to look up the following scriptures (and heck, why not use your Logos while you are at it?):

2 Peter 1:5

2 Peter 3:18

Proverbs 8:10

Philippians 1:9

So a pursuit of knowledge, even if my life ends before I truly acquire it, is scripturally a good thing (it may be dangerous to learn only a little bit, but the pursuit of it keeps me out of the bars and nightclubs!). 

Scripture also enjoins a right and gracious use of same--God grant that we all seek His wisdom in the pursuit and use of the knowledge He allows us to attain.

I won't waste any more of your valuable time with my pursuit, however.  I have learned what I needed to know from this thread.

Esther

 

 

Posts 67
Brian Whalen | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 22 2009 7:38 PM

I believe we are told by Jesus to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength.  So then, if we feel compeled to learn some Greek to increase our understanding, even if it is just using the exegetical guide in Logos, is that not showing love of God by trying to learn more about Him, resulting in jopeful increased closeness to Him?

Brian Whalen

http://www.mcnazarene.com

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 22 2009 7:56 PM

EstherJones:

If you'll indulge this uneducated lay person, I'd like to encourage you to look up the following scriptures (and heck, why not use your Logos while you are at it?):

...

So a pursuit of knowledge, even if my life ends before I truly acquire it, is scripturally a good thing (it may be dangerous to learn only a little bit, but the pursuit of it keeps me out of the bars and nightclubs!). 

Scripture also enjoins a right and gracious use of same--God grant that we all seek His wisdom in the pursuit and use of the knowledge He allows us to attain.

I won't waste any more of your valuable time with my pursuit, however.  I have learned what I needed to know from this thread.

Esther

I would never encourage anyone to avoid learning.  I only intend that you should understand that learning a language such as Greek or Hebrew is not a 6 month exercise for 3 days a week.  True understanding of a language takes time and practice.    If you're up to it, go for it.

Don't ever feel that you are wasting my time.  If I feel I am wasting it, I won't reply.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 25746
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 23 2009 6:46 AM

George Somsel:
Unless you are willing to take the time to really examine the lexicon entry (or perhaps use the reference browser to see if the passage you are studying is listed in the entry and how it is classified) you're basically throwing darts at the board.  This is why I suggested a commentary.  If it is a decent commentary, the author has some knowledge of how the words are used.

Agreed. Whatever route one takes will take time - and I use Active Bible Reference to highlight a contextual definition. The LGNTI offers a context-sensitive Louw-Nida number and gloss so I can match the LN number to one of the definitions in DBL Greek and compare glosses. LGNTI also offers lexical/grammatical notes.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 7
Jaycu49 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 23 2009 6:23 PM

By reading some of the post they do not know what the interlinear does.  Click  on the english word and any Hebrew/ Greek Dictionary you have in your library can be accessed in seconds. IT IS NOT JUST A INTERLINEAR, it is instant access to all or the dictionaries one chooses to use. I got my reverse interlinear attending a LOGOS TRAINING CAMP. THE CAMP WAS WELL WORTH THE MONEY. The reverse linterlinear made it worth twice the cost

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 24 2009 6:16 AM

Gay Ulrich:

By reading some of the post they do not know what the interlinear does.  Click  on the english word and any Hebrew/ Greek Dictionary you have in your library can be accessed in seconds. IT IS NOT JUST A INTERLINEAR, it is instant access to all or the dictionaries one chooses to use. I got my reverse interlinear attending a LOGOS TRAINING CAMP. THE CAMP WAS WELL WORTH THE MONEY. The reverse interlinear made it worth twice the cost

Yes, I agree. I use the reverse interlinear just for the initial orientation about the used word in the original text (I know I could do that going directly to NA27). I just use it instead of old way of using KJV with Strong numbers (sorry George for mentioning here this name Smile) I never do any (translation, exegetical, hermeneutical) conclusions by looking just at the reverse interlinear or even by looking at NA27 interlinear and the literal translation. It just helps me and makes it easier (not so much in Greek i know better, but in Hebrew I am still learning) to get very quickly to the particular word and then by clicking at it to BDAG/HALOT and tons of other resources.

And still, I never do a conclusion about the key issue I want to address in preaching/teaching in that moment. I always go further to the commentaries (WBC, UBS Handbooks, NIGTC etc.) So, I use interlinears (more N27 interlinear then other) but I am not naive to just grab the result from there and go say to people, that is how it should be translated. It is very natural to understand the problem for people like us here in our part of Europe if you live in multi-lingual territory and you just have to use 4-5 languages all the time.You know how tricky the translation can be Smile

Bohuslav

Posts 634
Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 24 2009 8:12 AM

Have you considered the payment plan? It would cost you about $58.00 per month for about 9-12 months. Talk to Dave Kapplan at Logos for more information. Tell him Michael Huffman sent you! God Bless!!!

Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 24 2009 8:59 AM

Michael Huffman:

Have you considered the payment plan? It would cost you about $58.00 per month for about 9-12 months. Talk to Dave Kapplan at Logos for more information. Tell him Michael Huffman sent you! God Bless!!!

Maybe I am a little bit slow but I did not get the point...Sad What the payment plan for?

Bohuslav

Posts 634
Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 24 2009 9:10 AM

Well. you spoke about the fact of the price of the collections that contains the books you would use. The point was, if that is the case, you can use the payment plan to help make it more affordable. Unless I misunderstood your previous post.

Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 24 2009 9:26 AM

Michael Huffman:

Well. you spoke about the fact of the price of the collections that contains the books you would use. The point was, if that is the case, you can use the payment plan to help make it more affordable. Unless I misunderstood your previous post.

I am sorry, may be I did not say things clearly enough (English is my 3rd language after Czech and Polish) so I apologize for that. I did not speak though about prices of resources or collections in my post at all.

Have a great day

Bohuslav

Posts 10737
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 24 2009 9:31 AM

Bohuslav Wojnar:

Michael Huffman:

Well. you spoke about the fact of the price of the collections that contains the books you would use. The point was, if that is the case, you can use the payment plan to help make it more affordable. Unless I misunderstood your previous post.

I am sorry, may be I did not say things clearly enough (English is my 3rd language after Czech and Polish) so I appologize for that. I did not speak about prices of resources or collections in my post at all.

I think perhaps Michael misunderstood because of the title of this thread ("Make the ESV Reverse Interlinear available for purchase outside the base packages"), but the thread began with someone else and has evolved in an entirely different direction.

Jack

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 24 2009 9:44 AM

JackCaviness:

I think perhaps Michael misunderstood because of the title of this thread ("Make the ESV Reverse Interlinear available for purchase outside the base packages"), but the thread began with someone else and has evolved in an entirely different direction.

Jack

Hmm... OK, I just wanted to say I see reverse interlinears as a usefull tool for people wise enough to not doing too quick conclusions about their exegetical/translational discoveries. So I would recommend it to be made available as a seperate resource.

Bohuslav

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 25 2009 10:03 AM

EstherJones:

Looking at the examples here in this thread makes me wonder if indeed it is something on which I'd like to spend my money.  So perhaps bundling it is wiser than I originally realized.

Still, I would like to point out that if I had had the chance to purchase those, then realized that they were of no use to me unless I studied the original languages myself, it might have spurred me on to greater efforts in that direction.  And surely that's a good thing.

Esther

Ester,

You might be interested in looking at the following article about the Reverse interlinears: http://www.ccmag.com/2009_06/ccmag2009_06kpurcell.pdf

Bohuslav

Posts 134
Esther Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 27 2009 1:48 PM

Bohuslav Wojnar:

EstherJones:

Looking at the examples here in this thread makes me wonder if indeed it is something on which I'd like to spend my money.  So perhaps bundling it is wiser than I originally realized.

Still, I would like to point out that if I had had the chance to purchase those, then realized that they were of no use to me unless I studied the original languages myself, it might have spurred me on to greater efforts in that direction.  And surely that's a good thing.

Esther

Ester,

You might be interested in looking at the following article about the Reverse interlinears: http://www.ccmag.com/2009_06/ccmag2009_06kpurcell.pdf

Thanks very much, Bohuslav;  that information was ultimately the most helpful.  I am now the proud (but poorer) owner of the Bible Study Library, which includes the wonderful ESV RIB.

Esther

 

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 27 2009 9:07 PM

I beg to differ with George on GREEK being unapproachable by the average Bible student. I also believe the Reverse Interlinear Bibles are a good tool to have at one's disposal. and commend LOGOS for making them available. Language acquisition is accomplished more often by immersion and osmosis than rote memorization. My first two languages were learned this way. (Most missionary kids learn the spoken language faster on the street than their parents do in language school.) The "play" stage of learning is when the student may greatly benefit from Reverse Interlinears & the Audio Greek NT - even if you can't keep up with it or pronounce it differently. I am not suggesting abandonment of scholarly pursuit of language study, just maybe a little "touching of the palate" to familiarize new students. Crying.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Page 2 of 3 (44 items) < Previous 1 2 3 Next > | RSS