New on PrePub - Doug Moo on Galatians - BECNT

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Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 7 2013 6:35 AM

Randy Lane:

Seems like a no-brainer, but pricy:

Logos version list ptice is also $45, but the PrePub price is $40.45, a discount of only 10%.

It is not a "no brainer" when the hardback book is on preorder for less than $27, and the Logos copy is more than $40. 

I have to strain my brain to decide if the advantage of having the book in Logos worth an additional $13 to me? 

For me, it seems that the time of trying to get everything in Logos is over.  I will have to use a "blended" library of Logos supplemented by other ebooks and paper books.  In reality I have been edging in that direction for some time, but this one may push me over the edge.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 7 2013 6:43 AM

Michael Childs:
I have to strain my brain to decide if the advantage of having the book in Logos worth an additional $13 to me? 

I have similar thoughts, although I lean towards "do I really need this resource"? If the price comes down, I will consider it. It isn't worth $27 to me in dead tree format. I'd buy it for $1.99 on Kindle though. Stick out tongue

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Posts 485
Randy Lane | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 7 2013 9:04 AM

Michael Childs:

Randy Lane:

Seems like a no-brainer, but pricy:

Logos version list ptice is also $45, but the PrePub price is $40.45, a discount of only 10%.

It is not a "no brainer" when the hardback book is on preorder for less than $27, and the Logos copy is more than $40. 

I have to strain my brain to decide if the advantage of having the book in Logos worth an additional $13 to me? 

For me, it seems that the time of trying to get everything in Logos is over.  I will have to use a "blended" library of Logos supplemented by other ebooks and paper books.  In reality I have been edging in that direction for some time, but this one may push me over the edge.

That's exactly why I prefaced my statement with "seems". The combination of Moo, BECNT, Logos, and PrePub almost cause the cursor to navigate to the order button with any effort. In fact, I think that actually happened, but I had to forcefully retract it when I saw and gave thought to the price.

Posts 737
Evan Boardman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 7 2013 10:01 AM

Huh?

Well, it's under development . If people are willing to pay twice as much for a Logo's version, its gonna be the norm.

Posts 60
Rustamania | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 7 2013 12:00 PM

There are people willing to pay, but we don't know how many pass because of the price difference.  I am wondering how much Logos is worth compared to other platforms?.  It's typically a better format and better search capabilities, but I find it hard to pay more than a 20-30% premium for Logos.  What do others think?

I am also banking on someone (or Amazon) creating a better interface and search capabilities for my kindle library.  Seems like it has to come someday.

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 7 2013 12:36 PM

I live in the Nordic in Europe, so I'm outside the U.K. and the U.S. and Canada, so when I buy printed matter a whole lot of postage is added. We have a website over here that sells literature but as their prices are not good it's almost always cheaper to order from the U.K.

I study Gk (on my own since more than a year, in college 2014 and onwards with a break when I will study a bit of Theology). I find Logos a good and valuable format for language studies (I have for example OLL and Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament (3 vols.)) and when wanting to do searches across one's whole library (since I have a clear majority of my books in Logos), or in user-created collections. But Logos is getting expensive both as it's hard to resist buying more (which I'm discussing in: Outdated and expensive and on Christianforums), and because it's rarely cheaper than printed matter. The benefit of printed matter is the possibility to read while in the public transport system, and that it sometimes requires less space and weighs less than carrying a laptop.

Some books don't have to be searched. When it comes to commentaries I generally avoid buying sets, on the other hand I don't wait for Logos to brake up sets or for commentaries that are not in Logos to come to Logos, because commentaries tend to somewhat quickly be outdated or less valuable and offer less fresh ideas compared to other new commentaries. ... so I often buy commentaries as printed matter.

Logos is good for some reference works such as New Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (5 vols.) and The Encyclopedia of Christianity, vols. 1-5 which would be very bulky as printed matter.

Another advantage of Logos is that it takes less space on the desk to compare books side-by-side on the computer screen than if placing the printed matter books on the desk.

Sometimes Logos is much cheaper, such as when I got Read Greek in 30 Days or Less: New Testament, Old Testament, Apocrypha, Philo, Church Fathers on prepub, but I would be pleased if a would have that book as printed matter also.

It's expensive to duplicate books and have them both in a Bible study software and as printed matter, but I do that sometimes.

Sometimes I get a problem when the specific book I want is not in Logos, such as two Bibles that are in my favourite posts on my Logos profile, plus: Lexicons.

To summarize: for some books I would pay a lot (for example those that are not in Logos but which I have requested), but for most books I want to pay about as much or less than as printed matter.
Lowering one's Logos-costs is very tricky, base-packages is among the worst solution. Following offers and pre-pubs consumes quite a lot of time and among the disadvantages are also that You get tempted to buy more.

And just one more note: I don't value minimal crossgrades. I will continue to avoid them and just download free engines. I think Logos has enough capabilities at L5 Bronze level, and I also have Accordance (using version 9 on emulator on Windows, have license for version 10, won't be upgrading it to higher Collections (=base-packages) and won't be updating it at every release of a new version) and will probably get Nestle-Aland 29th Edition Greek New Testament in it and add some, but not many, Gk capabilities:

Jason rust:
It's typically a better format and better search capabilities, but I find it hard to pay more than a 20-30% premium for Logos. What do others think?

 


I doubt that. I have newer bought a Kindle item and don't want to:

Jason rust:
I am also banking on someone (or Amazon) creating a better interface and search capabilities for my kindle library.  Seems like it has to come someday.

Aply!
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Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 7 2013 12:38 PM

Randy Lane:

Seems like a no-brainer, but pricy:

http://www.logos.com/product/31904/baker-exegetical-commentary-on-the-new-testament-galatians

Amazon lists Nov. 2013 as publication date, and discounts the volume from a list of $45 to just over $27.25, a decent 39%

Logos version list ptice is also $45, but the PrePub price is $40.45, a discount of only 10%.

I have all the other BECNT volumes, but can't see spending $40 on this now. I'll eat the $5 if I decide to buy it later. Besides, Moo is a complementarian, I believe, so I probably won't like his take on Galatians 3:28. Cool Stick out tongue

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

Posts 390
Alain Maashe | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 7 2013 1:13 PM

Michael Childs:

For me, it seems that the time of trying to get everything in Logos is over.  I will have to use a "blended" library of Logos supplemented by other ebooks and paper books.  In reality I have been edging in that direction for some time, but this one may push me over the edge.

Same here!

I have to thank Logos and Baker. When the pre-pub discounts used to be very substantial, it was a no brainer for me as I automatically placed my orders. Now. I actually stop and ask myself if I need yet another commentary on that specific book: the answer is more often than not: NO

Logos' pricing strategy (which was inadvertently revealed a while back on some slides as seeking "high margins" through added value) is increasingly leading me to only buy the books I absolutely need or only buy books during major sales. It is better for my wallet and we will see if it works for Logos in the long term.

Things might only get worse as the competition dwindles . I just hope it was not a case of increase the market share, eliminate the completion, and then  increase the prices.

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Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 7 2013 8:53 PM

Unix:  "I have never bought a Kindle item." 

Well, I have. There have been some resources available in Kindle, but not in Logos, such as C. S. Lewis. Other times the price difference made Kindle the better choice.

I would rather have a book that I intend to search in Logos. I had rather have a commentary in Logos in order to link it to the Biblical text.  I had rather have language tools in Logos.  But if I am basically going to just read or study a book, it is much more pleasant an experience to read the Kindle book than the Logos format. The Kindle format has served me well. And the prices are better.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 102
Andrew Malone | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 7 2013 11:14 PM

Jason observed: "There are people willing to pay, but we don't know how many pass because of the price difference." (Sorry; trouble with Quote today! :-))

I'm with those who've managed to resist the near-automatic impulse to preorder. I wonder if Logos might consider some similar to a "would like" button. That way they'd be able to capture some stats on who's avoiding the opportunity.

Probably only a pipe dream, because it's hard for Logos – and for us – to quantify at what point we would jump on board.

Posts 1928
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 8 2013 12:16 AM

Alain Maashe:

I have to thank Logos and Baker. When the pre-pub discounts used to be very substantial, it was a no brainer for me as I automatically placed my orders. Now. I actually stop and ask myself if I need yet another commentary on that specific book: the answer is more often than not: NO

This is an interesting thread. The thoughts in this thread coincide with what I have been thking.

Logos' pricing strategy (which was inadvertently revealed a while back on some slides as seeking "high margins" through added value) is increasingly leading me to only buy the books I absolutely need or only buy books during major sales. It is better for my wallet and we will see if it works for Logos in the long term.

I am becoming more and more selective. Rather than snag a great deal at pre pub (which in some respects doesn't appear as great as it used to be), I am more inclined to wait until I have a glaring study need before me.  Saving 100% is better for a book that I don't miss over saving 18% for a book that gets rarely, if ever read. Partly because I have built up my library, but partly due to price, I am finding fewer and fewer deals tugging on my wallet. 

I think another poster talked about Kindle. I've actually bought more Kindle books than ever in the last six months. Often they are books that aren't carried by Logos or the price is hard to beat.  If the price is hard to beat, I have to ask is the ROI worth paying the premium to have it in Logos? Sometimes, particularly with monographs, it isn't.

In my workflows for study, having it in Kindle is no different than looking for materials in different domains... the internet, Logos, another Bible program, Kindle, etc. It would be nice to have it in Logos, but if it isn't a core reference material, I'm increasingly open to having it in another digital format particularly if the cost is high.

Without doubt the digital market is still very much in its infancy. It's going to be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Posts 1647
Rick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 8 2013 6:47 AM

Alain Maashe:
Logos' pricing strategy (which was inadvertently revealed a while back on some slides as seeking "high margins" through added value) is increasingly leading me to only buy the books I absolutely need or only buy books during major sales. It is better for my wallet and we will see if it works for Logos in the long term.

I have been thinking about this for a few hours. I'm wondering if we are starting to see the fruits of these high margins? I must admit that I have bought some resources in other programs simply because of the price but some are what I call Logos "must haves" and pay the higher price. I first noticed the lack of price breaks when I was told that sales representatives would no longer have negotiation privileges.

Back to the high margins/price disparity. I understand all of the tagging arguments and such, which are valid. I would like to submit a couple of other benefits of paying the "premium" price. Things that we, as users, might not readily see as a direct result of the pre-pub discounts not being what they used to be. Caveat: this is only my thinking. I have no insider knowledge of Logos or their pricing system.

  1. We have recently seen an influx of denominational product managers, hopefully with more to come, which means more payroll expense to Logos. I, personally, think that this is a very big deal. With my denomination being rather small in comparison to others here in the United States, I would love to have someone representing my group at Logos headquarters.
  2. I know that this one is a bit more opinionated and know that others may disagree but I think that Logos' programming and development has been kicked up a notch. Maybe I did not pay close enough attention during the Libronix days (I simply had some Thomas Nelson packages) but it seems to me that since Logos 4, and now Logos 5, the quality of the program is superior to the previous and are being updated more often with newer tools. I wasn't a fan of having to pay to get "Topic" search back, however, I appreciate how Logos has made my studying as a layperson much easier, more thorough and way more productive. I have grown immensely since I bought my first true base package with Logos 4. Yes, Libronix helped but not nearly as much as 4 and 5 have.

These are two things that I can conceive where my "paying more now than in the past" money is going. I am sure that Logos has a lot of plans to stay the best. As a consumer I often have to go with a cheaper route but when I can buy Logos resources I will because I know that the company is striving to make the user experience far superior than any other.

Hopefully when some of the growing pains are over with and the user base is even higher, Logos will be able to relax some and offer higher discounts once again.

Just my few cents worth.

Peace  Smile

Romans 14:19 (NRSV)
19 Let us then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 8 2013 9:08 AM

Unix:
I'm outside the U.K. and the U.S. and Canada, so when I buy printed matter a whole lot of postage is added

Not if you buy from The Book Depository. Nor if you buy for more than £25 from Amazon UK.

Unix:
We have a website over here that sells literature but as their prices are not good it's almost always cheaper to order from the U.K.

When I read your posts I keep wondering if we really live in the same country, because your experiences always seem the opposite of mine. I've never found a new book that was so much cheaper abroad than at Adlibris that it was worth paying postage for it. Given the free postage, I have sometimes been able to save a few SEK by buying from the places above, but no more than that. For used books I guess it might sometimes be worth paying postage, but I haven't tried buying such abroad, so I couldn't say.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 8 2013 11:39 AM

Thanks for the reply, fgh, (and I hope we have buried the hatchet from a long time ago this winter).
I've used The Book Depository once or twice, they have fair postage, although they did charge p50 extra for the postage of a thick novel when I wanted to read the same book as my best friend but in the original language (I very rarely read novels). The problem is that some of the books they offer are not competitively priced, I did however add one scholarly book in the order from them just for the convenience of not splitting up orders. What annoys me just a little bit is that they don't package books together, each book comes in a separate parcel.

The majority of my print books have been purchased used and prices in the U.K. are very low. The shape of the books varies but You hardly ever get fooled and often the shape is better than described. You can estimate the shape pretty well by how old the book is, expect for example reference and former library books from the early '80s to be tattered already. But not-so-thick commentaries from the '90s are in great shape, and I got a Concise Dictionary of Christian Ethics by Bernhard Stoeckle in really great shape, it's from 1979.

Like I said postage ads cost. But I don't think I would get all these books in really cheap if I lived in the U.K. because I see a price a higher penned in many of them, so the over-the-internet price is probably a separate thing.

I did buy expensive books too, or I can think of one: the end-of-2011 Oxford Encyclopedia of the Books of the Bible, but that was from the U.S. and Canada (got a doublet of the second volume from Canada because the first order was heavily delayed so I had started to think it would never arrive).

Aply!
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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 8 2013 7:17 PM

Pricey but I'm willing to buy it after "pre-pub" just for the sake of completing this outstanding series.  All the authors have done a great job so far.  We still have 5 more to go.  Judging from the pricing on these puppies, I'd say this set will be more expensive than NICNT after its completion.  They might bundle it and perhaps lower the price a little bit so it won't surpass NICNT.  I hope the "Pastorals" volume is next and soon, then Carson on Hebrews.  The others I don't really care about the release order.

Forthcoming

? Guthrie, George II Corinthians
2013 Moo, Douglas J. Galatians
? Beale, Gregory K. Colossians, Philemon
? Weima, Jeffrey Thessalonians
? Porter, Stanley Pastorals
? Carson, D. A. Hebrews
Posts 1564
John Kight | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 2 2014 8:54 AM

Release date is today! Has anyone received the download yet?

For book reviews and more visit sojotheo.com 

Posts 1564
John Kight | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 2 2014 1:11 PM

Its live now.

For book reviews and more visit sojotheo.com 

Posts 1049
William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 3 2014 11:18 AM

Eric Weiss:

I have all the other BECNT volumes, but can't see spending $40 on this now. I'll eat the $5 if I decide to buy it later. Besides, Moo is a complementarian, I believe, so I probably won't like his take on Galatians 3:28. Cool Stick out tongue

Hi Eric, I've been reviewing since it came out, and you may not be as upset as you think.

Here is Moo's final comment on that verse: "But this “adiaphorizing” of difference within the Christian community does not entail an erasure of difference (to use Gundry-Volf’s [1997: 456] language) and cannot be used arbitrarily to rule out any distinctions in roles that Paul may teach elsewhere (Schreiner 2010: 258–59)."

Thanks to Logos, it was easy to find the relevant paragraph in Schreiner:

Such a danger is especially present when it comes to males and females. The beautiful unity of men and women in Christ must not be missed. Women are equally members of the family of Abraham with men, and there are clearly social implications that can be drawn from their unity. The social implications, however, must also include what Paul wrote elsewhere. Paul affirms the oneness of males and females in Christ, but he does not claim that maleness and femaleness are irrelevant in every respect. If one were to draw such a conclusion, then Paul would not object to homosexuality, but it is clear that he thinks homosexuality is sinful (Rom 1:26–27; 1 Cor 6:9; 1 Tim 1:10). In the same way, the equality of men and women in Christ does not cancel out, in Paul’s mind, the distinct roles of men and women in marriage (Eph 5:22–33; Col 3:18–19; Titus 2:4–5) or in ministry contexts (1 Cor. 11:2–16; 14:33–36; 1 Tim 2:9–15).

Schreiner, T. R. (2010). Galatians (p. 259). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

Posts 1875
Paul-C | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 3 2014 11:43 AM

Anyone else still waiting to download their copy of this new release? 

Posts 1875
Paul-C | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 4 2014 11:51 AM

I'm still waiting for this resource to download. My order history shows it should've shipped on 02 Jan.

Is anyone else still waiting for their order to download?

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