Open Source?

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This post has 26 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 605
John Fugh, Jr. | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Dec 13 2009 3:05 PM

I was talking to a programmer friend of mine about the occasional slowness of L4 along with the processor overhead that is necessary.  He suggested making the code Open Source to allow programmers to help streamline the code.  Of course, Logos would still distribute it and accept or reject code, but his suggestion seemed to make sense.  Logos does not charge for the code.  Their income seems to come from the selling of books.

 

Blessings-

John

Posts 72
Zachary Oglesby | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 3:10 PM

While I would love to be able to hack on the Logos source code (and maybe help write a Linux version) I don't see this happening.

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 3:28 PM

Whatever Logos does to keep books locked would probably be visible to a skilled programmer and then they would be able to recompile a version that did not care about the DRM...

Posts 605
John Fugh, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 3:30 PM

Kevin Becker:
Whatever Logos does to keep books locked would probably be visible to a skilled programmer and then they would be able to recompile a version that did not care about the DRM...

 

This may have been the case for l3 - but with everything being sync with the Logos servers - ie, the unlocking and algorithms in the code - this seems to be mute point.  But, again, I am only guessing.  I stand to be corrected.

 

John

Posts 323
Doug | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 3:35 PM

I'd seriously doubt that any correction is needed.  There's no way.  Everything about Logos would be up for grabs.  Uh-uh, no-way.

Posts 2778
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 4:30 PM

John Fugh, Jr.:
this seems to be mute point. 
Why is the point silent?

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 403
777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:12 PM

This actually would not be hard to implement.

Logos already had an API for it's version 3 software.  All they have to do is make the parts that they don't want people to have access to into compiled libraries and just give us information on how to access these parts.  The parts that they want hidden could be written entirely in C code, so the part that Logos deals with could be streamlined and FAST and contain absolutely ZERO user interface.  Logos could make the resources with their DRM and offer up a rudimentary (Logos 4 IS rudimentary compared to Logos 3) user interface module as open source.  If they wrote their underlying proprietary code in C and made available OSX, Win, and Linux versions in 32 and 64 bit that they did the porting and testing on that in house, it would open the door for all sorts of user interface offerings that would run on ALMOST ANY operating system.

To be blunt, Logos shot themselves in the foot with version 4.  It's not ready to USE as version 3 was.  Too many parts are NOT THERE and the parts that are are SLOW.  The last time I witnessed this happen to a software company was when BibleSoft came out with their version 5 software BEFORE it was ready for public consumption.  That place looks like Death Valley on a hot day now.  By Logos painting themselves in a corner by effectively killing any updates on version 3 and then offering up a castrated version 4 along with a kludgy back-burner Mac version, they've set themselves up in such a way that only the FAN BOYS can't see it.

Who is going to buy resources when the user interface lacks features that most software had when Windows 3.1 was out?  Who is going to buy resources they can't make use of?  I'd like the SESB 3.0, but I'm not going to toss loot at software that will not run correctly under version 4 and version 3 is labeled as history.

It makes me wonder both which genius is driving the bus and what kind of blessings God is giving to Logos.  Clearly the decision to release version 4 was solely based on CASH FLOW.  Hey... we're in a recession - go figure!  Toss some books in and make a not-ready-for-prime-time user interface program the ONLY way for all our customers to access the libraries that they have built over YEARS.  Version 3 is not going to be viable unless Logos keeps it up - only one change at Microsoft will kill that application.

SO, opening up the user interface code or offering an API to background libraries WOULD be a good move on Logos' part.  They clearly can't handle writing the Windows and Mac user interfaces all by themselves (or else they ARE capable and SOMEONE made the executive decision to jump the gun on it's release)  and if they concentrated on the background libraries for multiple operating systems and producing resources, then we'd have a situation wherein Logos could make a lot MORE money selling resources - which Logos is GOOD at doing - and letting the community make user interfaces.

The Sword Project does this just fine and might be a good model for Logos to use, except Logos can close the source on the bits that make them cash.

I've seen a few folks in these forums stand up and announce that the emperor has no clothes and my hat is off to them.  I've also seen a lot of lemmings line up on the version 4 bandwagon.  Version 4 has some initial wow, but it's actually eeeeh when you go to USE it.

And that's my HONEST OPINION.

Mike

Posts 2212
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:19 PM

MikeM:
And that's the TRUTH.

The use of capitals does not make all that precedes it any more than your opinion.

Posts 403
777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:25 PM

Damian McGrath:

MikeM:
And that's the TRUTH.

The use of capitals does not make all that precedes it any more than your opinion.

And your point is what?

I have my opinion and you, FAN BOY, have yours.

Posts 2212
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:32 PM

MikeM:

And your point is what?

I have my opinion and you, FAN BOY, have yours.

I thought my point was obvious. What preceded was opinion, one I respect actually. I simply have no idea why you signed off with "And that's the TRUTH."

As to me being a fan boy - that's hilarious - I've been one of the constant critics of certain elements of the program and as I have  repeatead, almost ad nauseam, throughout the Beta I argued that the program was not ready for release.

Posts 403
777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:35 PM

Damian McGrath:

I thought my point was obvious. What preceded was opinion, one I respect actually. I simply have no idea why you signed off with "And that's the TRUTH."

As to me being a fan boy - that's hilarious - I've been one of the constant critics of certain elements of the program and as I have  repeatead, almost ad nauseam, throughout the Beta I argued that the program was not ready for release.

So, what part of it is not truth then?  You SEEM to be in agreement with me.

 

 

Posts 403
777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:39 PM

I edited my original post so Damian would be happy.

Be HAPPY Damian!

Posts 2212
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:43 PM

MikeM:

I edited my original post so Damian would be happy.

Be HAPPY Damian!

I'm happy in capitals.......

 

Posts 403
777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:46 PM

Damian McGrath:

I'm happy in capitals.......

 

YoU'rE jUsT tRyInG tO gEt YoUr PoSt CoUnT uP, hUh?

That better?

Posts 2212
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:47 PM

MikeM:

YoU'rE jUsT tRyInG tO gEt YoUr PoSt CoUnT uP, hUh?

That better?

 

 

I have been unfairly accused of that on more than one occasion....

 

 

 

 

+1

 

 

 

Posts 6
Neil Short | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 8:03 AM

That's too bad. I think Logos is the best Bible software available; but I cannot stand Windows and I don't want to buy a MAC. If the browser were open sourced we could install it on a unix system and buy the Logos books and install them.

I think a lot of vendors are fearful about any open sourcing because they believe Linux (etc) users are unwilling to pay for anything.

That's definitely untrue. I just recently paid for the Net Bible (bible.org) for use with the Sword platform (crosswire.org). I don't know how typical of a unix user I am; but I suspect there are unix users comfortable with paying for good software.

Posts 2704
DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 8:09 AM

you could aways run it in a VM..?

Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have

Posts 13398
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 8:12 AM

I'm all for open source, and use it extensively, and often deliberatly choose it over proprietary systems simply because of the licence.

As you point out Logos' revenue stream comes from resources. They can sell the resources and sign up publishers because they have invested in creating the best product. You could not simply open source the code behind that product and expect their revenue stream to continue. Google might be able to fund projects and then open source them just to poke competitors in the eye (think Android, Chrome), but no-one else can afford that. And let's see Google open-source Adsense.

Although I'm 'for' open source (who wouldn't be) it's not automatically best in every circumstance. There is an open source alternative to Logos. It's called SWORD, and compared to Logos... well, it can't be compared to Logos. For free, it's great. But I'd rather pay and get the best.

Posts 225
Michael Birney | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 8:27 AM

I don't like being called a lemming.  Just because your experience has not been good does not mean that is my experience.

(I could of put this various ways, for example I could of said  - just because you are too computer illiterate to understand the program..., or,  just because you have crappy hardware that can't run the program ...., those probably are untrue statements, comparable for example to me being called a lemming.  I just point this out to say that there is a different way to say things that are less insulting.  It's nice you can insult the users and programmers in the same post.)

I'm sure there is room for improvement in the programming, and it would be very cool if it could have some open source components, this could lead to some add-ons that were very unique and interesting.  But if it does not go open source, it is headed in the right direction anyway.  

My experience with L4 has been great, it is so much better for me than L3, or actually anything else I use for study.  I've said this before, my sermon preparation time has been cut in 1/2, which gives me more time to improve my sermons and to serve my congregation in other ways.

That is my honest opinion.

Mike  (one of the other Mikes, the one that is a lemming)  Stick out tongue

Posts 3863
Forum MVP
Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 8:29 AM

Joe Miller:

John Fugh, Jr.:
this seems to be mute point. 
Why is the point silent?

 

now that's pretty funny.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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