When Did God Create Hell?

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Giovanni Baggio | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 23 2013 8:16 PM

Steve:

Giovanni Baggio:

Here's your answer champ: Deuteronomy 29:29 I think this verse pretty much sums it up cabbish ;-)

Giovanni

I'm appreciating Joshua's searching for the truth, asking questions, engaging in dialog, listening, responding.  Sounds alot like what the Apostles did.  I wonder if our Lord and Savior wants us to do the same.  Hmmm.

I'm sure you appreciate what Joshua is doing (and it's good) and I'm sure the apostles asked, but they received their information from the Lord himself and then the Holy Spirit guided them into all truth (which is what the Bible is all truth), not books written by others about what they think Jesus thought about something.  If I wanna know what Jesus thought or taught about hell the Bible is the place to go and if the Bible doesn't tell me when hell was created then why should I worry about it? If the Bible only gives me a little bit of information to know enough that hell is the place of eternal punishment for the devil, his angels and all those who didn't do the will of God then that's it.  Our concern should be avoiding going to that place not finding out petty details about it.  I may go there I may not hopefully not but hey I'm not gonna break my head trying to figure out something that is not important and does not contribute one wheat to my salvation such as finding out when God created hell.  I'm sure he'll tell you when you get to heaven. If I make it to heaven I got a list of questions I'll ask and even then if he chooses not to tell me hey that's fine secret things belong to him.

Thanks dude!

Giovanni

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Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 24 2013 8:47 AM

Giovanni Baggio:

Thanks dude!

Smile  You're welcome.

Posts 1699
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 8 2013 9:04 AM

Giovanni (Sir)

Is there any doubt that you will one day be in Heaven with Jesus eternally? I noted the word "if" in your reply.  I seek to build you up and encouragedyou in the Lord in this my reply.

Jesus paid it all brother.  I know we have "Help thou my unbelief" said by one boy's father in our Bible.  Its a cry we can all relate to and cling to.  Come Holy Spirit....thank you for sealing us forever in Christ.  Amen

God bless your walk and your faith, Sir,

Respectfully,
Joshua

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 8 2013 11:17 AM

Joshua Lieder:

biblically speaking When Did God Create Hell?

How did you use Logos 5.0 to arrive at your answer please?

Tried searching for articles (heading text, heading title, large text, tag, topic, title) in entire library:

God BEFORE 7 WORDS (created,made) BEFORE 7 WORDS hell

but found nothing.  For footnote searching, learned 0-7 finds more results than 7.  Searching surface text found a number of sentences.

Keep Smiling Smile

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JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 10 2013 6:40 AM

Thanks Keep...awesome use of Logos!

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 10 2013 8:02 AM

Joshua Lieder:

Thanks Keep...awesome use of Logos!

Yes!          Keep Smiling!            awesome indeed         ................                   Thank you!                                Peace!                *smile*

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 216
Tim | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 10 2013 9:19 AM

Joshua,

I fear that I cannot answer your questions any more than the others who have posted, but perhaps I might be able to help with your deliberations regarding the discussion. To my way of thinking, you will need to resolve at least three questions to your satisfaction before even being able approach this question well. 

1. This is a point of clarification: when you ask of hell, what are you speaking of? This thought is implied in some of the answers given but I have not seen it explicitly stated above. Are you speaking of Sheol, Hades, or the lake of fire? If you make no distinction between these three, this is a moot point. However, if you happen to follow the tradition that believes sheol to be distinct from the Lake of fire, your question needs to be refined to express the one or the other. 

2. This point is somewhat contingent on how you resolve the previous point. When do you understand the angels to have been created and have fallen? Again previous people posting have alluded to this, but have not expressed it explicitly. Some look to Job 38:4-7 as saying  that the creation of angels preceded at least Gen 1:2, and possibly Gen 1:1 depending on the view. This view is by no means universal, but if you desire to think well through the establishment of eternal punishment, you have to consider those for whom it was established. Towards that end you also have to decide when you understand the angels to have fallen. Certainly I believe it must precede the actions of Satan in Genesis 3, but beyond that I leave you to work through that on your own. 

3. Finally you must ask the question was "hell" however you have decided to resolve what that entails, created preemptively prior to the existence of sin whether angelic or human, because of the omniscience of God, or was it done subsequently? Here your understanding of the nature and character of God must come into play. Does God ever "respond" to situations? How extensive is the omniscience and foreknowledge of God? Etc. 

Because scripture does not explicitly answer these questions (I continue to ask the Lord why he never included a book of systematic theology in scripture but so far He hasn't replied) you will have to engage in a certain amount of deductive reasoning and application of philosophical thought to your problem. I realize that even expressing those words in this context may make some shudder, but I think that to be the case. 

I know this doesn't answer your question, but hopefully it will help you work through however you resolve it. One final thought. I believe that we who preach the Word will be called to account before the Lord for what we teach. If you agree, you may also want to give great thought as to what extent you wish to teach from the pulpit on a topic that requires philosophical expansion. -Tim 

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 10 2013 9:31 AM

Great post. Yes 

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Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 10 2013 9:44 AM

Yes Yes

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 10 2013 12:17 PM

Tim!             *smile*         Thank you so very much!                    Brilliant post!

                                                       Psalm 29:11

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 10 2013 1:05 PM

I find it hilarious that some of the most vocal people on the Hell debates do not even believe it exists. Why debate "details?"

A straw man if I ever saw one.

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 10 2013 1:11 PM

"Hell" doesn't exist...as Tim's post pointed out. "Hell" is a catch-all English term used to refer to a variety of not-so-similar concepts found in the Hebrew and Greek. Certainly something does exist...but that thing or things emphatically doesn't correspond to the "common" notion of Hell.

For that matter, the same can be said for "heaven", given the comments by Giovanni and Joshua at the top of this page...i.e. no one "goes" to heaven--which in turn casts credible doubt upon "security" that is based on a demonstrable inaccuracy.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 10 2013 1:14 PM

"details."                              The devil is in the details. Devil

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 10 2013 1:22 PM

Odd...I always thought the Truth was.

Hmm

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 10 2013 1:37 PM

David Paul:

Odd...I always thought the Truth was.

Hmm

Touche  Then I refer you to this post above

You can not prove a negative. Unless one goes to Hell and sees it is not there and comes back to report his findings, I will stick with Jesus' presupposition that it indeed does exist.

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 10 2013 1:43 PM

Run a search on hades OR hell in the Perseus English classics.

Look up the word hell, lake of fire, etc., run a word study and compare the greek of the N.T., with the Perseus classics in Logos. 

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 10 2013 1:46 PM

Super Tramp:

David Paul:

Odd...I always thought the Truth was.

Hmm

Touche  Then I refer you to this post above

You can not prove a negative. Unless one goes to Hell and sees it is not there and comes back to report his findings, I will stick with Jesus' presupposition that it indeed does exist.

Of course hell exists—we create it.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 10 2013 1:48 PM

It is probably bad theology but consider this;

If God warns Man of the possibility of man entering Hell as a deterrent to that end, could God have also created Hell prior to the fall of Angels so they could also have fore-warning of the possibility of going there?

This , of course, assumes:

  • God has fore-knowledge
  • Angels have free will
  • Man has free will
  • God cares for His creation

*Disregard this post at will Coffee

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Oldnewbie | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 10 2013 3:12 PM

George Somsel:

Super Tramp:

David Paul:

Odd...I always thought the Truth was.

Hmm

Touche  Then I refer you to this post above

You can not prove a negative. Unless one goes to Hell and sees it is not there and comes back to report his findings, I will stick with Jesus' presupposition that it indeed does exist.

Of course hell exists—we create it.

George, if I remember correctly according to Sartre we are it.

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 10 2013 5:33 PM

Oldnewbie:

George Somsel:

Super Tramp:

David Paul:

Odd...I always thought the Truth was.

Hmm

Touche  Then I refer you to this post above

You can not prove a negative. Unless one goes to Hell and sees it is not there and comes back to report his findings, I will stick with Jesus' presupposition that it indeed does exist.

Of course hell exists—we create it.

George, if I remember correctly according to Sartre we are it.

I was thinking that he thought it was someplace rainy and damp like Amsterdam, but that may have been Camus.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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