Text Comparison Tool Questions (and Collections?) and Suggestions

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This post has 15 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 136
Mark Hoffman | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, May 23 2013 7:34 PM

The Text Comparison tool is very important, but I'm finding it rather difficult to get what I want. (BTW, I've checked this forum and the Wiki and cannot find answers to my questions.)

  1. I have compiled a list of 'literal/formall' to 'dynamic/functional' English translations. I'd like to have a way to get at these quickly. I've typed them out in the order I want, so I can get them to display in the fashion I want: LEB, D-R, KJV 1900, ESV, NRSV, NET, NIV, TNIV, NLT, GNB, The Message.
    BUT, I can't find a way to save this list with this order. I know that clicking on the box does offer a "Recent" list, so I can choose it there, but as I work w/ different comparisons, this particular one can disappear. Is there a way to save this list?
  2. To answer my own question, I created a Collection with these Bibles, but there seems to be no way to order them. Is there any way to order books in a Collection?
  3. When clicking on the version selection box in the Text Comparison, the first choice is Top Bibles. I do now know how these were determined. Is there a way to edit the "Top Bibles" list?
  4. In the Wiki, a very helpful tip was provided that with the mouse hovering over any Bible text in a window, hitting F7 will bring up a popup with some versions to compare. The Wiki says the versions should be the ones last used in the Text Comparison tool, but this is definitely not the case for me.
    Is there any way to select the versions that pop up?
  5. I prefer the Text Comparison to open in a floating tab. Right now, I have to click Tools > right click Text Comparison > click Open in floating tab. Is there any way to assign a hot key (e.g., Alt-F7 would be good) to open Text Comparison in a floating tab? (If not, this would be a good suggestion.)
  6. There is another older thread with some suggestions related somewhat to my questions, but I'll add another here. There is no easy way to navigate verse by verse in the Text Comparison tool. The Wiki provides a work around by linking the Text Comparison to follow another open Bible window. I suggest a navigation bar be added so that this workaround is not necessary.
  7. Another question/suggestion/request: For my Greek and Gospel classes, I like to create parallel texts for students to use. (Here is an example of Mark 16.1-8.) It is very easy to create such guides in BibleWorks. Is there a way to create such parallel text guides in Logos? (If not, it's a suggestion!)

Thanks for any and all help you can provide!

Posts 136
Mark Hoffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 28 2013 10:18 AM

I want to bump this back up. Still hoping for some suggestions. Thanks.

Posts 13413
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 28 2013 10:36 AM

Mark Hoffman:
Is there a way to save this list?

You can add Text Comparisons to Favorites, and it will remember the reference and the resources.

Mark Hoffman:
Is there any way to order books in a Collection?

No. Personally, I only care about the first book in Text Comparison, because that becomes the base text. So in Text Comparison I would put "LEB, TextComparisonCollection".

Mark Hoffman:
Is there a way to edit the "Top Bibles" list?

It's the five most highly prioritised Bibles in your library.

Mark Hoffman:
Is there any way to select the versions that pop up?

This is done by prioritisation as well. The wiki is wrong.

Mark Hoffman:
Is there any way to assign a hot key (e.g., Alt-F7 would be good) to open Text Comparison in a floating tab?

No. It will always open in the right-hand part of the screen.

Mark Hoffman:
Is there a way to create such parallel text guides in Logos?

Yes, in 5.1 beta. You would create a Personal Book with lines like this:

{{dtext ref= Mk 16:1 | res=LLS:NA28}}
{{dtext ref= Mk 16:1 | res=LLS:1.0.710}}

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 28 2013 10:38 AM

Mark Hoffman:
Is there a way to save this list?

Set it up the way you want it, and then drag the tab to a folder in Favorites. Or to the shortcut bar.

Mark Hoffman:
Is there any way to order books in a Collection?

No.

Mark Hoffman:
Is there a way to edit the "Top Bibles" list?

They're the first 5 Bibles under Prioritize in the Library.

Mark Hoffman:
Is there any way to assign a hot key (e.g., Alt-F7 would be good) to open Text Comparison in a floating tab?

Don't think so, but if you put TC on the shortcut bar, you can right-click there instead.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 136
Mark Hoffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 28 2013 11:43 AM

Thank you, MarkB and fgh!

I've got the Text Comparison on my FavBar. (should have thought of that...)

Re-prioritized my Bibles!

Looking forward to the 5.1 beta

Thanks again!

Posts 50
Darrell | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 28 2013 11:49 AM

Use your library to add numbers to the beginning of the titles of your bibles (ex. 1New King James Version, 2Wycliffe), this will force your bibles to display in the order you want. Change the short title to what you want, this will display in your text comparison and the “copy bible verses” tool. Build your collections to exclude bibles you do not want, then use your collections for “Text Comparison” results. You can name a collection anything you want for easy recognition later. Open the tools menu and drag the text comparison tool to a panel just like you would a bible or float it is you wish and set it to use a collection you have made, then you can export and manipulate text. This should work well for building “parallel texts” in vertical or horizontal display.

Dell Lap Top Win 10_Home,  Logos 7,    

Samsung gs7 phone

Posts 136
Mark Hoffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 28 2013 9:01 PM

@Darrell - Excellent! Took me a bit to figure out to change names of the books in my library (right click and then click to edit in right pane), and I was able to # them 01xxx, 02xxx, etc.

I now have them in a collection and the Text Comparison link attached to the Fav Bar.

Right click to open in a floating window, choose my collection, and all is good!

Thanks again!

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 28 2013 9:15 PM

Darrell:
Use your library to add numbers to the beginning of the titles of your bibles ...

Personally prefixed Bible titles with year for chronological ordering in Text Comparison:

Thankful for Logos 5 library option to filter by collection.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 50
Darrell | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 29 2013 4:30 AM

Yes it works well, and comparing the texts in order of publication makes it easy to see the pressure the vernacular places on the WORD to conform to our way of thinking instead of the other way around,,

enjoy your posts, thanks,,

Dell Lap Top Win 10_Home,  Logos 7,    

Samsung gs7 phone

Posts 67
Scott Groethe | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 22 2014 4:31 PM

This is not a collection comment/suggestion but a general one (btw lots of help so far in this thread thx)

In the information panel there is settings which has drop down arrow which reveals "update information" and radio buttons "hover" and "click."

One thing I would like to see is some more user-defined settings in text comparison.

One might be to display the verses one at a time if a range is chosen. That way longer sections don't fill up the text comparison window (in vertical layout) with that first version. I know I can delink my commentaries from the link set, but just hoping we can set more options in that panel in the future.

Posts 67
Scott Groethe | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 23 2014 7:52 PM

Giving myself another 24 hours to think about this, e-Sword reminded me that their text comparison window only shows one verse at a time. If it were a programming choice between the current verson and being constrained to one verse at a time, I would definitely choose one verse at a time. 

As a translator, I have to compare various versions and this would be a great help to people like me. 

The way it is now, the processing requirements for more than one verse slows things down, as the window is updating from one verse to a range of verses. Woe be to the person who in a commentary clicks on a chapter or multichapter section. Then the text comparison window has to update all that information.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 23 2014 11:55 PM

Scott Groethe:
being constrained to one verse at a time, I would definitely choose one verse at a time. 

As I commented in the other thread, this change would render the tool useless to me as I am usually comparing verse mappings when I use this tool. Not to mention that I work with sentences not verses ... although there is some overlap.

Scott Groethe:
As a translator,

I am surprised that as a translator you work with verses rather than linguistically defined units. Care to tell me why?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 67
Scott Groethe | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 7:34 PM

I'm always on the lookout for the connectors that make the text flow, that bring thoughts together or to distinguish them. For me, the NLT is very good at showing this, so I try to get ideas from it.

I am not as good as most translators I know but God has called me to one particular ethnic group so I have a job to do. I'm no pros pro.

Before Logos 4, even though I had Logos/Libronix, e-Sword was the software I used everyday because it quickly showed me a comparison of major English translations and the ones I need for comparison, Chinese and Thai.

I guess I prematurely spoke up for one verse at a time. To me it would speed things up because if you are unlucky enough to select a whole chapter, then the window fills up and takes a long time. Plus I prefer the vertical layout because for me it works better and faster than the horzontal layout.

Being sensitive to the lexical units bigger than a phrase, sentence or verse is important. But I have to start with the words, and the eating an elephant one bite at a time for me with translation (actually more editing since the native speaker produces the draft) is verse by verse. Then later but also as I go, I look at paragraphs and sections and make sure those linking and transition words are there. Perhaps other translators will start big and go small.

And maybe Logos could have both (not a programmer but why not) have a settings panel for the text comparison window similar to the information panel where you could choose different display options. So then both of us can be pleased with how Logos works for us. I'm sure both of us would like to hear other opinions from Logos users, maybe I'm in the minority.

I have separate windows open for at least three English translations so for the bigger units, the text is right there to look at. So I don't really need the TC window to do that for me.

At the risk of going too long and saying too much, let me try to answer what you said again in a slightly different way. I have a friend who talks about linguistic units. I'm not unaware of those, and they are important. Just getting the main passage phrased right is a super big job, and so that has to be done. And I will look at the linguistic units. I already see them clearly enough that I notice where, say comparing a meaning-based translation to the Thai or Chinese, I see that Thai and Chinese often leaves out certain linking words, since they follow the RSV and the KJV respectively. Some would say those words weren't "left out" since they aren't in the Hebrew or Greek. I think they aid in understanding.

So I am very sensitive to those, but for sure not anywhere near perfect.

In training mother-tongue translators, just getting them to be able to read three (or four) languages well is a big enough task in itself - their language, Thai and Chinese (and I hope Lao) . Then having them compare various translations, those plus Northern Thai, and have them get ideas from them is what I really need them to be able to do. That is about the most I could hope for. Then I get the text and revise it. And part of that is looking for the linking words.

This is how I work every day

Posts 2589
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 7:54 PM

Interesting that you can read Thai, Trad Chin, and English well. Not many individuals on this planet can!

I applaud you for your work.

Posts 67
Scott Groethe | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 25 2014 8:04 PM

I wish I could read Greek and Hebrew better. We do look at the RSV or ESV which is a more literal language. SIL, which trains native tongue translators suggest that people refer to a literal translation. So the RSV, TH71 and the RCUV are literal. It's not ideal, I know.

95% of what we do is get ideas from other related langauges. In my wife's language, Tai Lue of Southeast Asia, those would be Thai, Lao and Northern Thai. So if those translations are wrong in certain places, we probably won't catch those. But that means those Bibles (used by millions of people) are faulty as well. Also the consultant checks the text, which is the last step in the proecess before final revisions, formatting and publishing.

I used to pretty much only look at the NLT. Then it was NLT and NCV. Now, with the advice of another translator we add GW to that. Tai Lue has a NT done in 1935 but few people understand it well. We are doing a modern-language and easier to understand version. Here in N. Thailand I haven't met one team or person that is doing a literal version. I have in the big country north of there but the locals like our version better which is closest to the N. Thai version SIL is doing.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 26 2014 12:21 AM

Thanks for your answer. It does a very good job of putting your needs in context.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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