Kai (and) in the beginning of sentences of Mark's gospel

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Jo Decaesteker | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, May 27 2013 12:18 AM

All (and only!) the "ands" (kai as conjunction > logical connective?) in the beginning of sentences in the gospel of Mark...Is there a way to highlight / find them with some search?

I know there are a lot of them and it would be nice to be able to highlight/find these.

I know about syntax search (like in Opentext), and I am trying to construct the query. I'm quite new to it, discovering only the surface of this kind of searching. This is what I have so far, giving me 891 results:

However, this seems not very accurate - I seem to get wrong results (among correct ones of course) and others seem to be missing...You see, I only want the "kais" in the beginning of a sentence to be found...Can that be done?

Thanks in advance!

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 27 2013 5:29 AM

Jo Decaesteker:

 I only want the "kais" in the beginning of a sentence to be found...Can that be done?

I am not very experienced in this area, but my first thought is that it isn't possible. You are wanting to find the kai's in the beginning of English sentences, using syntax from the Greek, right?

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Jo Decaesteker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 27 2013 5:34 AM

alabama24:

Jo Decaesteker:

 I only want the "kais" in the beginning of a sentence to be found...Can that be done?

I am not very experienced in this area, but my first thought is that it isn't possible. You are wanting to find the kai's in the beginning of English sentences, using syntax from the Greek, right?

Right!

That's my first thought too that it can't really be done, but I guess this syntax type of search is the closest I can get for now...

Posts 341
Stephen Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 27 2013 5:45 AM

Jo,

Is this accurate enough for you?

In search, type in kai (in Greek lettering, copy and paste) chose Mark's gospel in USB Greek New Testament.

Select all reference that have no "previous context"

Stephen Miller

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Posts 44
Jo Decaesteker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 27 2013 5:57 AM

Stephen Miller:

Jo,

Is this accurate enough for you?

In search, type in kai (in Greek lettering, copy and paste) chose Mark's gospel in USB Greek New Testament.

Select all reference that have no "previous context"

Stephen Miller

Sydney, Australia

Great idea, I took analysis view and sorted by "previous context"... I do get a lot of verse numbers and quotation marks as previous contexts though. Oh well... :-) Thanks, Stephen!

Posts 341
Stephen Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 27 2013 6:18 AM

I get all the kais together

Stephen

Posts 44
Jo Decaesteker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 27 2013 6:34 AM

I did a morph search with Logos Morphology...

What search do you execute?

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 27 2013 7:45 AM

That's a great solution from Steven.

Jo Decaesteker:
What search do you execute?

You probably used a difference resource. It doesn't work on The Lexham Syntactic Greek New Testament, nor will it with English Bibles, but it should be fine on all other Greek Testaments.

Posts 341
Stephen Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 27 2013 7:53 AM

I did not use a morph search.

I did a Bible search in UBS Greek NT. I search for καὶ (I got the Greek by copy/paste out of the Greek NT.

Stephen

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 27 2013 7:58 AM

Mark- pardon my complete ignorance... Does this solution give the Kai's which begin the sentences in English only? Or is that not what Jo was looking for?

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 27 2013 8:10 AM

Sorry, I didn't read the OP carefully enough. Stephen's solution finds kais at the beginning of verses, whereas the beginning of sentences was asked for.

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Stephen Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 27 2013 10:50 PM

Mark,

You have made the task easier. Type in Καὶ with a capital Κ and then in the search icon drop down list ask it to "match case". All the Καὶ s at the beginning of a sentence are listed.

Stephen

Posts 44
Jo Decaesteker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 28 2013 12:51 AM

Hmmm, well, right... thanks for this input, Mark and Stephen, it's getting very close. However, I don't get the results like you do, Stephen... I seem to have another UBS4 edition, can that be?

Posts 341
Stephen Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 28 2013 2:02 AM

Jo, it works with NA27 also.

Use Search // Bible

Choose UBS4.

Open it so you can copy and paste the Καὶ into the search.

In the new search icon chose //match case.

Hundreds of results come up.

Hope you can find what you want.

Stephen

Posts 44
Jo Decaesteker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 28 2013 2:30 AM

Stephen Miller:

Jo, it works with NA27 also.

Use Search // Bible

Choose UBS4.

Open it so you can copy and paste the Καὶ into the search.

In the new search icon chose //match case.

Hundreds of results come up.

Hope you can find what you want.

Stephen

...Like a glove! THANKS, Stephen! :-)

As my goal actually is to find all English(!) "and's" at the beginning of a sentence, I use your method for/in the ESV. This including both δέ, τέ and καί. So, doing a Bible search in the range of Mark's gospel in the ESV for ". And" (matching cases) does the trick and gives me more accurate (for the English text, that is!) results than the "καί" only search in a Greek text, since the lemmas δέ and τέ are also included now (of course, τέ doesn't seem to occur in Mark, but well, you know what I mean: I have to include ALL of the lemma's which are translated as "and" in English, as I want the results in the English text).

I knew about Mark's (not Barnes, I mean John Mark - lol!) abundant use of "and" in the beginning of a sentence already, but it's nice to see them marked by a visual filter... (I make one seperately, set to Match Cases).

Thanks again, this has been a tremendous help!

Cheers in Him!

Jo D.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 28 2013 3:33 AM

Jo Decaesteker:
All (and only!) the "ands" (kai as conjunction > logical connective?) in the beginning of sentences in the gospel of Mark...Is there a way to highlight / find them with some search?

OpenText does not have Sentences, so the Clause search will yield more results (906) than Lexham Syntactic (359, below) or Cascadia (439) and more than a text search of UBS4 (106) and NA27 (133). The subjective element is clearly the identification of sentences in the original Greek.

The attribute Appears First comes from the top of Word Specifics (click Word 1 to see it) under the menu which by default is "appears anywhere".

Dave
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Rick Brannan | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 28 2013 5:38 AM

Stephen Miller:
Type in Καὶ with a capital Κ and then in the search icon drop down list ask it to "match case". All the Καὶ s at the beginning of a sentence are listed.

Be careful with this. Most Greek editions (NA/UBS included) to not capitalize Greek according to rules of English grammar. For example, Mark 1.5, the beginning of a sentence, starts with a lower-case και in NA27. Same with Mark 1.6 and 1.10.

Instead, most editions (hearkening back to at least as far as Westcott-Hort, perhaps earlier) actually encode differing levels of higher structure with a combination of paragraphing and sentence-casing (see here for some short explanation of WH's use of such formatting: http://www.pastoralepistles.com/2008/05/18/WestcottAmpHortOutlineFirstTimothy.aspx ). Many times in NA a capitalized word indicates the beginning of a quotation, not necessarily a new sentence after a full-stop.

Hope it helps.

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Rick Brannan | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 28 2013 6:20 AM

Since your question about και is really a translation question (right?) it seems like you might want to search for when a particular translation (e.g. ESV) translates και as "And" (case-sensitive) in Mark. Different translations will translate the function implied by και differently (on the function of και, see Runge's Discourse Grammar to the Greek New Testament (DGGNT), chapter 2).

Anyway, here's a sample of a search I just did (using Morph Search) to locate where και is translated as "And" in ESV Mark; the search was case-sensitive. Is this the sort of thing you're looking for?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 28 2013 6:39 AM

Rick Brannan:
Since your question about και is really a translation question (right?) it seems like you might want to search for when a particular translation (e.g. ESV) translates και as "And" (case-sensitive) in Mark.

Duh. Why didn't I think of that! Big Smile Thanks for helping us out. Yes

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 28 2013 6:40 AM

Stephen Miller:

I get all the kais together

Are you saying your Previous Context column doesn't look like this:

?

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