NIV 2011

Zondervan announced the 2011 NIV today. It was news to me, at least. Some of you probably knew about this.

The Twitter announcement was phrased in an interesting way:

"God’s unchanging word gets updated for first time in a quarter century when 2011 NIV debuts!"

If is unchanging, how can it be updated? I know what they mean, I just think it was put in an odd way.

I am not anti-NIV BTW. It is one of the main translations I use.

Given Zondervan's goofy policies in the past, will we get to see this for Logos? I imagine we will, but how long will it take and what hoops will we or Logos have to jump through to get it?

If it's worth getting, that is.

So many translations - I am certain we don't need all of them. I guess it is a way to sell more Bibles. Kind of sad if that's the main motivation.

Jerry

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Jerry Bush

BTW, here is the link to the announcement:

http://tinyurl.com/mxbf47

Jerry

Steven Yu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/6240#Comment_6240

Would like to see the complete listing of the translation team for the 2011 NIV....

But don't they update the NIV consistently under TNIV?

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/6259#Comment_6259

This MSNBC article says "90% will remain unchanged"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32644719/ns/us_news-faith/from/ET

It really does not amaze me that the (supposedly) best English translation needs to correct 10%. of it's content in just a few decades after the initial copyright. The idea of making scripture "more accessible" by rewriting it seems silly. Why don't they just write a Bible with fill-in-the-blanks. That would be accessible to everybody and sell even more Bibles. [C]

ZoesProudDaddy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/6268#Comment_6268

Greetings Matthew,

I personally think that its important to make the bible more accessible albeit without changing the meaning. Although I don't want to get into the whole "KJV only" topic its viable here. Most people cannot fully understand nor appreciate the translation due to its language as we don't say 'thou' anymore. Why not just update it with 'you'? Same with 'woman with child', why not just update it to 'pregnant'? I personally believe that to say 'children of God' when both men/women are being discussed instead of 'sons of God' is preferred. One can easily include a footnote stating the importance of being a son in 1st century Jewish customs so to provide the reader with the iimportant information. I applaud Zondervan for this. While the bible can be called an unchanging work, our understanding of it isn't as is our own language.

Alan

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/6269#Comment_6269

Alan, I have no problem with updating language to match colloquial meanings, especially if a footnote encapsulates the deeper cultural meaning like you describe. I actually prefer Ray Comfort's Evidence Bible ("simplified King James") for dropping the Thees/Thous/Thines. The different Japanese Bible versions reflect the rapid changes in their language. It just bothers me a bit for Zondervan to suggest the English language has evolved that quickly in 30+/- years. Instead of a newly discovered Biblical passage about online social networking, I highly suspect they are trying to do a little gender reassingment translating. If it were just a dumbing down of the vocabulary to refllect the tragic growth of illiteracy in the USA, we already have the version with 5th grade reading level. Maybe we need a single syllable elementary version. But 10%?????!

[Edited for decency by MCJ [A]}

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/6268#Comment_6268

Why don't they just write a Bible with fill-in-the-blanks. That would be accessible to everybody and sell even more Bibles.

Is this the kid of thing you were looking for Matthew? http://www.morethancake.org/2009/09/fill-in-the-blanks-bible.html

I am taking orders now and looking for more translators for my team.

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/6268#Comment_6268

Why don't they just write a Bible with fill-in-the-blanks. That would be accessible to everybody and sell even more Bibles.

Is this the kid of thing you were looking for Matthew? http://www.morethancake.org/2009/09/fill-in-the-blanks-bible.html

I am taking orders now and looking for more translators for my team.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/6276#Comment_6276

that really had me laughing! thanks.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/6270#Comment_6270

Looks like they are distancing themselves from the TNIV, so whilst NIV 2011 may encapsulate some of the gender changes the aim will be "a Bible that is accurate, accessible and that speaks to its readers in a language they can understand". I emphasise accurate because of text like Heb 12:7

"Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father?" (TNIV)

versus

"Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?" (NIV)

The TNIV was not accurate, even if you accept the change from sons to children it should have been translated:-

"Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what child is not disciplined by their father?" (ignore the awkwardness of their).

It is a fine point, for the translation could have replaced "father" with "parents".

In v8 TNIV evaded the issue by truncating "illegitimate children and not true sons" to "not legitimate children at all"!

It will be interesting to see how NIV 2011 handles passages like these in the pursuit of their goals.

Jerry Bush

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/6280#Comment_6280

From the news article (not the press release), it looks like the TNIV will be dumped completely.

Jerry

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/6280#Comment_6280

Maybe this is just a case of Zondervan adopting the Microsoft business model of beta testing everything under the guise of an official release/translation (and then making the necessary corrections from feedback of the users.)

"Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what child is not disciplined by their father?" (ignore the awkwardness of their).
It is a fine point, for the translation could have replaced "father" with "parents".

But your example of Heb 12:7 shows how trying to make everybody happy can actually gut the Bible of potentially vital teachings. While many here would not agree with Bill Gothard's explanation of Chain-of-Command in authority, changing this verse to read "parents" results in a dual-supervision model of child rearing. I don't want to start an off-topic rabbit trail here. I am just pointing out the ramifications of tinkering with God's word to appease societal bent.

In v8 TNIV evaded the issue by truncating "illegitimate children and not true sons" to "not legitimate children at all"!

I have a friend who married 6 days before his child was born so he would not be "illegitimate." The Jewish teachings made a distinction between those born out of wedlock ("bastards"), those conceived out of wedlock but born in wedlock ("illegitimate"), and those conceived and born within the marriage ("legitimate".) This was so important a distinction they recorded in a census the classification of different Jewish families returning from Babylon to Jerusalem. I don't know if this new caste system was ordained by God but the implications are lost when we dumb down our English versions.

I would be very interested to see how the NIV2011 would culturally sanitize Deuteronomy 23:1 since so many modern day Christians have surgical sterilization. [:'(]

Paul Golder

I wonder if they will update this:

Samson answered her, "If anyone ties me with seven fresh thongs that have not been dried, I'll become as weak as any other man."
Judges 16:7 (NIV)

Could be construed strangely in today's American language.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/6297#Comment_6297

But it will enliven the Bible study!

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/6300#Comment_6300

But it will enliven the Bible study!

I can't help but think of the mental picture that teens, and 20-somethings would have...

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/6301#Comment_6301

Another example of publishing gone awry is Standard Publishing (a former Christian Church/Churches of Christ company in Cincinnati that was bought out by a secular concern.) It is my understanding they now have a Sunday School curriculum that uses The Rolling Stones, The Beatles and other rock music songs to teach Bible truths. And I thought the Andy Griffith Sunday School curriculum was silly.............

I abandoned Standard's VBS material years ago because of the weird time-travel with Jesus, jungle and space cadet themes. It started looking like a Saturday morning (flying house) cartoon on CBN. Is it any wonder young adults think Christianity is a storytime for little kids?

My son is now learning to read using A Beka's Bible reader. It has unadulterated KJV text with beautiful artwork that appeals to kids. He commented he likes it because it reads the same as mom's Bible. If my little kids can understand it most young adults should be able to.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/6276#Comment_6276

Is this the kid of thing you were looking for Matthew? http://www.morethancake.org/2009/09/fill-in-the-blanks-bible.html

I am taking orders now and looking for more translators for my team.

Rolling on the floor in laughter...........[:P]....... Precisely! I have to share that with my Bible college professor friends.

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/6304#Comment_6304

My son is now learning to read using A Beka's Bible reader. It has unadulterated KJV text with beautiful artwork that appeals to kids. He commented he likes it because it reads the same as mom's Bible. If my little kids can understand it most young adults should be able to.

I've always used the NIV, simply because it uses the same translation philosophy that I was schooled in. With the most important factor being that the translation must be in the language that the listener (reader) thinks in. That being said, it's been about 30 years, and a change is needed. I disliked the TNIV, not so much for its goal of inclusive language, but the way, at times, it favors inclusiveness over intended meaning.

Some friends of mine have switched to the HCSB, and I have been using it more also. My only caveat is that when given a choice of possible translation variants for some words, it seems like the translators chose the opposite of the NIV, if for no other reason than to make sure that it was different.

Just my opinion, and I'm looking forward to the new version, I just hope that it isn't too influenced by the "He-man" club.

Anyway with so many versions available in Logos, along with the original languages, we have the best of all worlds.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/6296#Comment_6296

"Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what child is not disciplined by their father?" (ignore the awkwardness of their).
It is a fine point, for the translation could have replaced "father" with "parents".

But your example of Heb 12:7 shows how trying to make everybody happy can actually gut the Bible of potentially vital teachings.

I retract the fine point because the Greek is singular and can mean only "father" (so the TNIV accepts that females can be disciplined by their father!?).

Dennis Cossin

I agree with you Jerry. I like the NIV84 edition very much. Its one of my favorite translations. The NIV2011 has many changes in it. Some verse changes have changed the meaning. (2 Timothy 1:7, Acts 7:23) Of course, the "gender" issue is practically the same as the TNIV with "some" changes that correct this, because of the influence of the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. Some other changes have made it more accurate while others have created some questions. ( Romans chapter 6:2-3)

Publishing houses are in business to make money. Zondervan is no exception. Also the bible translation committee was influenced by the "evangelical feminist community" concerning the gender issue. Only time will tell if the NIV will remain the number one best selling english translation.

Dennis

Brian Whalen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/221060#Comment_221060

I do own a couple NIV Bibles, largely because so many others own it and have difficulty overcoming hearing something that is different from what they see if they try to follow along. Is it coincidence that the number one translation is copyrighted by the number one Christian book publisher? That really ought to be horrifying to a seriously discerning believer.

Jerry M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/221060#Comment_221060

I missed J.R. Miller's blog about the "fill in the blanks Bible" when it came out. It is irreverent, but is funny and points the direction, many see things going, but slowly going so the "gradually heated toad" gets cooked rather than jumps out.

After Genesis comes Exodus, it's pretty good too!

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/221063#Comment_221063

That really ought to be horrifying to a seriously discerning believer.

I'm no raving fan of the NIV but I fail to follow your logic.

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/221060#Comment_221060

Have NIV (11) and NIV84 in Logos 4 but how do I down load into Logos 3 [NIV84 still listed as NIV] [I normally go to the order page but NIV not listed there]

Kevin Becker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/222090#Comment_222090

Try running the script for your base package at the bottom of this page.
http://www.logos.com/product/8775/logos-bible-software-3-media-only-kf-dvd-rom

Make certain you synchronize licenses first.

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/222100#Comment_222100

Got it [but it shows up as the NIV as does the NIV84]

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/222180#Comment_222180

Found this on a Logos 4 thread: [we have both but they are both titled NIV]

Mark Barnes Replied: Today 2:56 PM

Billy Staggs:

Ok, I was able to manually download the NIV2011 but it also show up in Logos with the same title as the NIV1984 just like it did in on my one of my computer with Logos 4. How do I edit the title in Logos3?

It's an L4 feature only, sorry.

Michael Robinson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223669#Comment_223669

I have NIV 2011 and NIV 84 on my L4 package and appearing on my L4 setup. All good there...

But... tried Kevin's advice to get NIV 2011 on L3, but all the update did was rename NIV to NIV84 - and there is only one NIV file in the resources directory. Anything else I can do to get NIV 2011 on L3?

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223753#Comment_223753

Try downloading the file below and putting it in your L3 resources folder:

ftp://ftp.logos.com/LbxBooks/NIV2011.lbxlls

Michael Robinson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/223755#Comment_223755

Mark: You, sir, are a genius! All good.

(However, there must be an easier way... but very thankful for the forums.)