Design a new package for new pastor on limited budget

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Posts 879
P A | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Jul 5 2013 12:33 PM

Could you (Logos user) design a better package?

The challenge

Design a new package for new pastor on limited budget of $1000 and this will have to last for next 5 years!

You can assume the new pastor has been to bible college. The pastor never heard of Logos until he left bible college.

Two options

A) with no Greek        OR

B) 1  year Greek

 

Rules. You must base your package on current Logos prices, however you are allowed to take advantage of current discounts.

 

This exercise might be helpful for those on a limited budget and who don't like the look of the current base packages on offer.

 

P AGeeked

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 5 2013 1:20 PM

 P A, Silver package clocks in at 999.95. I think this is a good start, plus you have a year to pay it off.

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

Posts 222
Justin Cofer | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 5 2013 1:25 PM

Lynden Williams:

 P A, Silver package clocks in at 999.95. I think this is a good start, plus you have a year to pay it off.

Agreed.  Silver is what I would recommend.  If the pastor wants a starter package for under $200, then I'd recommend the IVP collection.   Best bang for buck, and its on sale for little over $100 often.

http://www.logos.com/product/8588/the-essential-ivp-reference-collection-version-3

Posts 1626
Rick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 5 2013 3:28 PM

I, am not a pastor, so I might be disqualified from giving input, but.... I still think that it would be neat if Logos offered some sort of a "Build it Yourself" package. For instance, they could give you a list of 20 commentary sets and you get to pick X amount of them and so forth with all of the other types of resources such as Bibles, word studies etc.

Doing it like this would allow a pastor to tailor the package that they would use optimally. They know their education level and such much better than a standard pre-built package. 

EDIT:  The more that you are willing to spend, the more resources that you will be entitled to recieve from the given lists.

Peace  Smile

Romans 14:19 (NRSV)
19 Let us then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

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JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 5 2013 4:08 PM

Rick:

I still think that it would be neat if Logos offered some sort of a "Build it Yourself" package.

I doubt that anyone who has purchased a Base Package is 100% happy with the Resource selections that Logos made.  I know I have a bunch that I would be just as happy to throw back (MyTag:UGH).  As a result, a $1000 Silver Package, even though the price is relatively low, might actually be very costly once one sorts the wheat from the chaff.  Thus, a B-I-Y package makes a lot of sense.

I'd guess (and it is only a guess) that the appearance of "dynamic pricing" is an indication that they are quietly trying to do exactly what you suggest.  But adding all 35,000 resources into one giant pricing algorithm sounds rather daunting and possibly prohibitive.  However, smaller B-I-Y packages that break down along, say, Pentecostal/SDA/Reformed/Weslyan/Evangelical/Catholic/Greek/Hebrew/Text Crit/Higher Crit/Exegetical/etc. lines would be far more manageable.

Speculation only.

 

How blessed is the one whom Thou dost choose, and bring near to Thee(Psa 65:4a)

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 5 2013 4:18 PM

All of the current packages suffer from commentary starvation. To me, the commentaries a pastor would most value would cost the $1,000 price (or close to it) you are looking for if not more.

I think your price point is simply too low for a real pastor's "library." Three times that gets you a lot closer. Sorry about that, and it wasn't your question. Most seminary/Bible college educations cost way more than $1,000. A car does. Why think that a pastor can feed and minister to his congregation with a $1,000 Bible study expenditure? I know that sounds a bit harsh, but it is the reality. Better to give your pastor money to spend on books as he wishes than put together a package he might not use because he'd feel limited.

Now if he just needs a little search help in the Bible and a few inexpensive public domain commentaries, you can do that for way less than $1,000 in Logos and most other Bible software programs.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 764
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 5 2013 4:41 PM

Mark Smith:

... commentary starvation.

This would go a very long way towards feeding the poor with a highly nutritious diet!

How blessed is the one whom Thou dost choose, and bring near to Thee(Psa 65:4a)

Posts 6059
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 5 2013 4:59 PM

JRS:

Mark Smith:

... commentary starvation.

This would go a very long way towards feeding the poor with a highly nutritious diet!

For a few practical sermons it could work, but I don't know about going a very long way because not everybody necessarily agrees with Boice's theology and what could be nutritious diet for you may not be for others.  Personally I own a few of his volumes and like the Bible says "Prove all things, hold fast that which is good." I try to get whatever good moral principles I can from his writings, but I find myself disagreeing with him a lot due to his theology.

Plus, that's not a base package.  My recommendations are: 1) Try to get your church to help you buy your "tools" for ministry (Logos if you wish - I highly recommend it) or 2) Get a free software that contains several commentaries and save yourself $1000 bucks for some special add-on to your free software that some times some of the resources required a purchase to obtain them.

Blessings!

DAL

Posts 2289
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 5 2013 5:00 PM

P A:

The challenge

Design a new package for new pastor on limited budget of $1000 and this will have to last for next 5 years!

A) with no Greek       

Rules. You must base your package on current Logos prices, however you are allowed to take advantage of current discounts.

To bad everyone [so far] is on the "Expensive" side of Logos.

A new pastor at a Catholic Church could spend a lot less - and it would be useful for his entire career. [[The advantage of a unified church]]

Verbum Basic $269.95
Plus
Catechism of the Catholic Church Collection (9 vols.) $49.95

Even if he upgraded to:
Verbum Foundations      $489.95  or 
Verbum Scripture Study $889.95

He is still under the grand limit

Posts 2145
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 5 2013 9:25 PM

If the pastor had been to Bible college, he would most likely have a basic commentary set even if it is print. He could use that to start and leverage it to pay for more later in Logos. While Silver is weak on commentaries, commentaries are still secondary to doing your own mining.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 6 2013 2:39 AM

Mark Smith:
I think your price point is simply too low for a real pastor's "library." Three times that gets you a lot closer. Sorry about that, and it wasn't your question. Most seminary/Bible college educations cost way more than $1,000. A car does. Why think that a pastor can feed and minister to his congregation with a $1,000 Bible study expenditure? I know that sounds a bit harsh, but it is the reality. Better to give your pastor money to spend on books as he wishes than put together a package he might not use because he'd feel limited.

I agree with this. A plumber who is starting out will have to find about $12,000 to buy all the tools he would need. Is the work of ministry less important? Is a minister less in need of tools to do his job?

Personally, I would recommend a minister buying his first package should get what I've listed below. I've deliberately chosen these as being excellent packages that offer a heavy discount when bought with a base package (several are half-price, one is an 80% discount). Assuming a 15% discount for Gold (fairly easy to get), that comes to just over $3,682. A payment plan would make this cost around $157/month for two years, or $36 a week. I think that's great value for all these excellent tools. What's particularly appealing about this collection is that Gold is free! That is, if you remove Gold from your shopping cart, then the price goes up by $142. That's how significant some of these discounts are.

Of course, I'm not saying that you shouldn't go into the ministry unless you spend that sort of money. But I am saying that in many other professions there are significant start-up costs, and I'm not sure I see why the ministry should be any different.

PS - You can save a little more on Gold by joining SBL for $109. That nets you a 25% discount and a total price for Gold+membership of $1,271 (a saving of $40). You might save even more by NOT joining SBL, but discussing that option with a sales rep!

PPS - At a glance, the person buying this package would get all the Logos tools, and hundreds of resources, the most important of which are :

  • Technical Commentaries
    • Exegetical Summaries
    • Keil & Delitzsch
    • NICOT/NICNT
  • Intermediate Commentaries
    • Bible Speaks Today
    • Black's NT Commentary
    • Calvin's Commentaries
    • New American Commentary
    • Tyndale Commentaries
    • UBS Handbooks
  • Expository Commentaries
    • Boice's Expositional Commentaries
    • Holman NT Commentary
    • Matthew Henry
    • Welwyn Commentaries
  • Bible Dictionaries
    • Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary
    • Baker Encylopedia of the Bible
    • Dictionary of Biblical Imagery
    • IVP 'Black' Dictionaries: Jesus and the Gospels, Paul and His Letters, Later NT and its Developments, and New Testament Background
    • Lexham Bible Dictionary
    • New Bible Dictionary
    • New Dictionary of Biblical Theology
    • New Dictionary of Theology
  • Lexicons
    • BDAG
    • Brown-Driver-Briggs
    • Liddell & Scott
    • TDNT
    • Theological Lexicon of the NT
    • Theological Lexicon of the OT
  • Interlinears
    • Greek NT
    • Hebrew OT
    • Septuagint
    • Apostolic Fathers
  • Systematic Theologies
    • Berkhof
    • Shedd
  • Other
    • Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha in English
    • Concise OED
    • Early Church Fathers
    • Works of Francis Shaeffer
Posts 1609
Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 6 2013 3:23 AM

Wow, Mark. That's actually a pretty useful package you put together there. lt is probably more than someone starting out might consider, but I must say that it's a pretty good combination of what a serious Bible student is actually likely to use.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 6 2013 3:54 AM

Allen Browne:
lt is probably more than someone starting out might consider

I agree with that, but the attraction of the initial discounts, coupled with the possibility of a 2 year payment plan, coupled with the fact that when you begin your first 'job' after college is a great time to set a budget, means I still think it's appropriate for someone starting out. (Although that obviously depends on personal circumstances, of course.) The payment plan will cost you $120 over the period, but you'll save far more than that through the discounts available when you buy the base package.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 6 2013 5:57 AM

Excellent recommendation, Mark. Great leveraging of the package discounting.

I routinely see people trying to sell auto mechanics' professional grade tool chests for $8,000 or more. Without tools.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 1588
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 6 2013 7:08 AM

I also failed to get in your $1000 budget.

No Greek base -

Verbum Foundations - 490  (Gets you ECF as well as a variety of Bible translations and useful addins cheaper than anything else)

Luther's Works - 259

Anchor Bible Dictionary - 270

IVP Reference - 190 (but on sale for 100 now)

Bible Speaks Today - 100 (NT only, but good value)

Tyndale Commentaries - 225 (Value)

Totaling $1534 (minus sales)

Greek Based

Bronze - 630

Luther - 259

ABD - 270

IVP Ref - 190

WBC - 700 (All sets have their pros and cons, but this is the best value, IMHO)

Totaling 2049 (again, minus sales)

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 6 2013 7:56 AM

P A:

Could you (Logos user) design a better package?

The challenge

Design a new package for new pastor on limited budget of $1000 and this will have to last for next 5 years!

You can assume the new pastor has been to bible college. The pastor never heard of Logos until he left bible

What kind of pastor, what kind of ministry, what kind of church background?

Logos is basically designed for Bible-centered ministries. A career chaplain would need a different set of resources than an expository preacher. A youth pastor would need a different set than a minister of Christian education. Also, is this a Catholic church, a Pentecostal church, Reformed, Main-line, Evangelical, Fundamentalist? To whom does he/she minister: blue collar, professionals, inner city, suburbs, rural, is this a college town, and how well do these folks know their Bibles?

Then what is the his/her basic ministry style? Administrator, team-leader, teacher, pastoral care, evangelist, etc.

There are way to many unknowns here to create a meaningful package for every new pastor, possibly even most of them.

This is why Logos' shotgun approach in the base packages is so helpful. Even if you do not include the "chaff" (as it was characterized earlier), I have found that base packages are almost always the most economical way to build a meaningful library. I've been using Logos since version 1.6, and this has been true since I first started comparing what I could do apart from base packages, and what a base package gives me. I only include works I want as I calculate the savings. I always find base packages to be tremendous bargains (YMMV). I must also say that more than once, I was surprised to find that some of the 'chaff' have proved to be quite helpful later on.

If I want to be a handy-man around the house, I'll need some tools. I could go and buy a screwdriver, an adjustable wrench, and piece-meal a set for myself, or I can go looking for a tool set. The advantage of the tool set is that it is more likely to have tools that I don't anticipate needing, but I will need sooner or later. I might not know I need a 9/16" (roughly 14mm) socket to tighten that nut in a place that an adjustable wrench simply won't fit. But if I have the tool kit with that socket, I can find what I need. And the tool kit is almost always less expensive than buying what I need one piece at a time.

I always recommend a base package as the best and most economical way to begin with Logos, and the most economical way to grow one's library. Which base package depends on the person, of course, and their study needs. What I would do is look at the base packages with them, and decide what that person really wants in terms of commentaries, original language texts/lexicons/etc., Bibles and other resources. Look at their budget and between the two (money and needs/wants), find their "sweet spot." For most expository preachers (like me), it will probably be the current "Silver" or "Gold" package. For the more academically minded and financially 'comfortable,' Platinum, Diamond and Portfolio might be their best entry-point.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 243
JC54 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 6 2013 2:05 PM

The answer to all the questions is easy.

We assume that the pastor did some theology studies on a university which gives you 50 percent on base packages (like mine) and wise as he is he puts together his package under this circumstances :P, no matter what you add, the price tends to be right!

Posts 1667
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 6 2013 6:12 PM

Mark Barnes:
Personally, I would recommend a minister buying his first package should get what I've listed below.

I'm not a pastor or in the market for that level of resources, but I'm certain Mark's advice here will be very valuable to those who are. It would be a good post to favorite for when advice to others is needed. 

Win 10 Android/Fire OS 5

Posts 525
Kent | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 6 2013 6:51 PM

Johannes Hendrik Menkveld:

The answer to all the questions is easy.

We assume that the pastor did some theology studies on a university which gives you 50 percent on base packages (like mine) and wise as he is he puts together his package under this circumstances :P, no matter what you add, the price tends to be right!

According to the SBC 40% of their pastors have no college. A program like Logos is their college and seminary.

Posts 476
elnwood | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 8 2013 12:52 PM

Kent:

According to the SBC 40% of their pastors have no college. A program like Logos is their college and seminary.

Source? That seems rather unbelievable to me. There are gobs of Southern Baptist bible colleges around. Of the eight largest seminaries in America, five of them are Southern Baptist. 40% haven't had any college? Really?

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