Seriously?

I really don't mind getting offers from Logos, however, this one rattled me a little.

Your Minimal Crossgrade purchase qualifies you for upgrade discounts on Logos 5! You’ll get new features and a massive new library: resources that make Logos 5 our most innovative, popular, and easy-to-use software yet. Plus, you’ll get an automatic update to your current Logos books—they’ll work with all of Logos 5’s new features. Get a personalized upgrade discount with Dynamic Pricing, plus an additional 10% to 20% off!

I did upgrade the last time to L5...hmmm..."Upgrade prices will never be this BIG again"... SERIOUSLY??? I thought that's what I did the last time...

For me to upgrade from Silver to Diamond with a whopping 5% discount is still over 1,600 dollars. Logos please consider your customers before you send anonymous sales info to our inboxes. I love your software and appreciate what it helps me to accomplish in the study of God's Word.

Blessings,

danp

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Floyd Johnson

I really don't mind getting offers from Logos, however, this one rattled me a little.

Your Minimal Crossgrade purchase qualifies you for upgrade discounts on Logos 5! You’ll get new features and a massive new library: resources that make Logos 5 our most innovative, popular, and easy-to-use software yet. Plus, you’ll get an automatic update to your current Logos books—they’ll work with all of Logos 5’s new features. Get a personalized upgrade discount with Dynamic Pricing, plus an additional 10% to 20% off!

I did upgrade the last time to L5...hmmm..."Upgrade prices will never be this BIG again"... SERIOUSLY??? I thought that's what I did the last time...

For me to upgrade from Silver to Diamond with a whopping 5% discount is still over 1,600 dollars. Logos please consider your customers before you send anonymous sales info to our inboxes. I love your software and appreciate what it helps me to accomplish in the study of God's Word.

Blessings,

danp

I had a similar feeling when I saw the same note in my e-mail. I felt minimized -

David Thomas

I did upgrade the last time to L5...hmmm..."Upgrade prices will never be this BIG again"... SERIOUSLY??? I thought that's what I did the last time...

If I remember right, the discounts were a little better when L5 first rolled out last November. So (according to my recollection) they could be totally truthful in saying "It will never be this big again" while at the same time I think "It was bigger in the past for those who upgraded at that time" I do not feel cheated AT ALL that they are offering this deal at this time to others who want to upgrade but could not afford it back during the holidays.

Mark Barnes

Your Minimal Crossgrade purchase qualifies you for upgrade discounts on Logos 5! You’ll get new features and a massive new library: resources that make Logos 5 our most innovative, popular, and easy-to-use software yet. Plus, you’ll get an automatic update to your current Logos books—they’ll work with all of Logos 5’s new features. Get a personalized upgrade discount with Dynamic Pricing, plus an additional 10% to 20% off!

I did upgrade the last time to L5...hmmm..."Upgrade prices will never be this BIG again"... SERIOUSLY??? I thought that's what I did the last time...

For me to upgrade from Silver to Diamond with a whopping 5% discount is still over 1,600 dollars.

I think the problem here has been caused by the criteria used to send out this custom email not being clever enough. If I've understood your email correctly, then you upgraded to to L5 Silver, then later got the Minimal Crossgrade in order to ensure you didn't miss out of the Bible Sense Lexicon.

I hypothesise that the email that you received was then sent out to all purchasers of the MC, because they would get 10 to 20% off upgrades to a proper base package. But in your case, you don't qualify for that level of discount because you already own Silver. The email criteria should have been more carefully chosen, and sent to everyone who bought MC and who didn't buy an L5 base package.

If I'm right, then that explains both why you're being bugged to upgrade when you already have, and why you're only being offered a 5% discount when the email promised 10% or 20%.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/503976#Comment_503976

The claim that prices will never be better has been posted to all sorts of places, where anyone with any package can read it. But what I see when I go to the Upgrade page looks like the same discounts that have been there since I bought Capstone.

Kevin A. Purcell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504083#Comment_504083

It's just marketing speak and logos is a business. I hope you didn't take this a covenant promise or anything. I can almost guarantee that the next time they have a big discount they will say the same thing.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504083#Comment_504083

The claim that prices will never be better has been posted to all sorts of places, where anyone with any package can read it. But what I see when I go to the Upgrade page looks like the same discounts that have been there since I bought Capstone.

"They will never be better" refers to the future. We're not in a position to judge whether that is accurate at this stage. But I'm pretty sure that those discounts haven't been there since you bought Capstone (unless Verbum discounts have been done differently). The launch discounts were dropped/reduced a little while after launch, and re-appear/increase from time to time (but usually to the same level).

Wild Eagle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504167#Comment_504167

Where is the sale, can someone explain me. Advertisement claims big discount

When I press on discount, this is what I see:

I own minimum crossgrade, is this all I get, and I will never see bigger than this again????

no Starter, Bronze, Silver, or Gold Sale

DISCOUNT WILL NEVER BE LIKE THIS BIG AGAIN, all I can say is wow[^o)]

Dan Pogue

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/503976#Comment_503976

Hey Mark,

Actually I purchased the MC and saw how little difference the price range was made in upgrading to Silver in L5. Buying the MC only took of fifty or so dollars off on the upgrade price to Silver. So I sold some camera equipment and called sales and had them delete the MC and purchased the Silver with the extra databases since it was only around seven dollars more.

I love what L5 does in helping me to study and know my Lord better! This is fantastic software and the forums are a the best I have seen anywhere. Logos does a superb job in working with the customers. I have been using Logos since the early 90's when the whole program installed with one 3.5 disk. I was just a little miffed when I got this email and let my emotions control me. I humbly ask the forum members to forgive my rant which certainly was not necessary.

Blessings,

danp

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504167#Comment_504167

I'm pretty sure that those discounts haven't been there since you bought Capstone (unless Verbum discounts have been done differently). The launch discounts were dropped/reduced a little while after launch, and re-appear/increase from time to time (but usually to the same level).

And I'm pretty sure I've never been to the Upgrade page since without seeing the exact same discounts I see now (the same as in Wild Eagle's screenshot). No more, no less.

"They will never be better" refers to the future.

"Sale" refers to the present, and the same prices as before isn't a sale. And 0% on the first 5 packages definitely isn't a sale.

And as for the future, I doubt they even know themselves whether they're accurate or not. I doubt they've taken a final irrevocable decision never to offer any '10% on all upgrades' discount again. Or 15%. In fact, I wouldn't be the least surprised to see one when Pastor Appreciation Month comes. Or Black Friday. Or Christmas. I'd be more surprised never to see one before L6.

Sorry, but I've seen far too many 'never better' claims from Logos that quickly turned out not to be true. Their marketing people seem to write whatever sounds good and will sell, and never seem to stop to consider if it's literally true or not.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504330#Comment_504330

Kind of interesting. I have the L5 crossgrade too; but it shows discounts for all the packages. Then below, it's a 50% discount or similar. I've no clue what exactly any of those percentages mean. So I'd assume Mark's comments about the programming are spot-on.

I never worried about the L5 re-use of package names since I didn't want them anyway. But now my package is long gone and I'm just a cross-grader. I wonder if you have L4 crossgrade but not L5 crossgrade, if you're just a nothing.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504112#Comment_504112

It's just marketing speak and logos is a business. I hope you didn't take this a covenant promise or anything. I can almost guarantee that the next time they have a big discount they will say the same thing.

Kevin is correct. Never believe what someone in marketing says (any business). As the old song Aaron Copeland included in his old American songs says "they're all dodging for your dime."

Wild Eagle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504342#Comment_504342

Kind of interesting. I have the L5 crossgrade too; but it shows discounts for all the packages...

Hmm, is there a bug on the website, I see only from platinum and above? I do not see the "new big" discounts. As fgh confirms, what I see now those discounts were always there since launching L5.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504347#Comment_504347

Kind of interesting. I have the L5 crossgrade too; but it shows discounts for all the packages...

Hmm, is there a bug on the website, I see only from platinum and above? I do not see the "new big" discounts. As fgh confirms, what I see now those discounts were always there since launching L5.

Generally speaking, the higher the cost, the greater the discount. So I think discounts are different for 'new' purchasers and those who already have an L4 base package, as the former will be paying much more, so get a slightly better discount. What are your L4/L5 purchases of base packages and crossgrades?

Wild Eagle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504385#Comment_504385

Generally speaking, the higher the cost, the greater the discount. So I think discounts are different for 'new' purchasers and those who already have an L4 base package, as the former will be paying much more, so get a slightly better discount. What are your L4/L5 purchases of base packages and crossgrades?

I have L4 Platinum and L5 MC

So I think discounts are different for 'new' purchasers and those who already have an L4 base package, as the former will be paying much more, so get a slightly better discount.

Not really Mark. Discounts are different, but the 'new' purchasers do not really get a better discount. I have my own separate account where I keep Perseus Collections and do not own a base package. When I logged in to that account, I see those discounts:

If Denise has L5 Crossgrade and has discount for all packages, then I dont really understand how everything works here

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504398#Comment_504398

If Denise has L5 Crossgrade and has discount for all packages, then I dont really understand how everything works here

I don't doubt her, but I don't understand why she continues to use L3. I have it on my computer, but basically for the Weights and Measures feature. L5 does it all otherwise.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504398#Comment_504398

Not really Mark. Discounts are different, but the 'new' purchasers do not really get a better discount. I have my own separate account where I keep Perseus Collections and do not own a base package. When I logged in to that account, I see those discounts:

That's interesting. Clearly the discount is being customised to individual users. In one of your accounts you're being offered a straight discount of 10%, whilst in the other your level of discount various between 0% and 20%.

I'll guess again at the reasoning behind this (and it's only a guess).

On one account, because you own L4 Platinum already, you're only being offered discounts at that level and above (i.e. you won't get a discount for 'downgrading'), but you're getting a decent discount because you're already a customer. The more you step up, the more discount you'll get.
On your other account, because you don't own a base package, you're getting offered discounts across the board (because all base packages would be be an 'upgrade'), but your discount is less because you're not already a base package customer.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504400#Comment_504400

Visa viz George's 'throwing down the gauntlet' concerning L3:

- As an disinterested hardware user, Libby is backed-up easily. I've no confidence in L5, should Bob have an unfortunate brush with life's uncertainties.

- Libby doesn't constantly watch me, and then with its little L5 evil-eye, report back to the Logos starship.

- Libby remembers how to do basic Windows actions ... copy, arrow-down/page, etc. Libby however never fancied fingers on a touch-screen, poor girl.

- Libby allows me to line up my reading all across the top of the window (since I easily forget what I'm studying). Each area I'm working on has its assigned place. L5 instead wants me to scroll the little icons, often hiding the tab that it popped me into.

- Libby has considerably more courtesy, opening additional resources without destroying my layout.

Now, my new Pagewhite has much in common with Libby ... suggestions for additional reading, no evil-eye, snappy response, and die-ability. It does not read Logos, but then the books are (considerably) cheaper. Libby likes her new friend PW.

Actually I agree with Unix; the packages have little to offer. In my case, Gold = UBS Handbooks and no savings.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504464#Comment_504464

L5 instead wants me to scroll the little icons, often hiding the tab that it popped me into.

Huh !?? What icons? I don't got no stinkin' icons. [;)]

Libby has considerably more courtesy, opening additional resources without destroying my layout.

How does L5 destroy your layout? I don't find that to be the case.

Wild Eagle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504421#Comment_504421

That's interesting. Clearly the discount is being customised to individual users. In one of your accounts you're being offered a straight discount of 10%, whilst in the other your level of discount various between 0% and 20%.

I'll guess again at the reasoning behind this (and it's only a guess).

On one account, because you own L4 Platinum already, you're only being offered discounts at that level and above (i.e. you won't get a discount for 'downgrading'), but you're getting a decent discount because you're already a customer. The more you step up, the more discount you'll get.

On your other account, because you don't own a base package, you're getting offered discounts across the board (because all base packages would be be an 'upgrade'), but your discount is less because you're not already a base package customer.

That make sense. Thank you Mark! Seems to me that advantage of the "big" discount is only for those who had/have only lower packages. For those who had/have larger packages do not benefit much from those sales and for them "Upgrade discounts will never be like this big again" does not apply

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504385#Comment_504385

Here's another one that doesn't refer [only] to the future: "This is 2013′s best deal".

And on another subject (the Oxford History of the Christian Church): "Even at the best used print prices, you’d still pay more than $100 per volume in print". So I go to Amazon to check it out, and instead of >$100/volume used, I find new volumes starting below $40.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504507#Comment_504507

And on another subject (the Oxford History of the Christian Church): "Even at the best used print prices, you’d still pay more than $100 per volume in print". So I go to Amazon to check it out, and instead of >$100/volume used, I find new volumes starting below $40.

I just checked the used price for every volume in this set. Only four were more than $100, but many were less. The average price per volume, including postage to me, was $57.82. (The prices below might be slightly different to you as, due to exchange rate variations, and varying postage charges.)

A History of the Churches in the United States and Canada by Robert T. Handy	$3.75	Link
A History of the Churches of Australasia by Ian Breward	$74.05	Link
A History of the Popes 1830–1914 by Owen Chadwick	$53.56	Link
Christianity in India: From Beginnings to the Present by Erik Frykenberg	$34.34	Link
Church and Society in Eighteenth-Century France, vol. 1: The Clerical Establishment and its Social Ramifications by John McManners	$26.46	Link
Church and Society in Eighteenth-Century France, vol. 2: The Religion of the People and the Politics of Religion by John McManners	$130.52	Link
East and West: The Making of a Rift in the Church: From Apostolic Times until the Council of Florenceby Henry Chadwick	$47.84	Link
England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales The Christian Church 1900-2000 by Keith Robbins	$28.19	Link
German and Scandinavian Protestantism 1700–1918 by Nicholas Hope	$100.15	Link
Reformation in Britain and Ireland by Felicity Heal	$40.78	Link
Religion in England 1688–1791 by Gordon Rupp	$113.16	Link
The Church in Africa 1450–1950 by Adrian Hastings	$106.48	Link
The Church in Ancient Society: From Galilee to Gregory the Great by Henry Chadwick	$41.73	Link
The Early Reformation on the Continent by Owen Chadwick	$33.89	Link
The Frankish Church by J. M. Wallace-Hadrill	$69.87	Link
The Orthodox Church in the Byzantine Empire by J. M. Hussey and Andrew Louth	$33.36	Link
The Papal Monarchy: The Western Church from 1050–1250 by Colin Morris	$71.36	Link
The Popes and European Revolution by Owen Chadwick	$31.23	Link

Wild Eagle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504553#Comment_504553

And on another subject (the Oxford History of the Christian Church): "Even at the best used print prices, you’d still pay more than $100 per volume in print". So I go to Amazon to check it out, and instead of >$100/volume used, I find new volumes starting below $40.

I just checked the used price for every volume in this set. Only four were more than $100, but many were less. The average price per volume, including postage to me, was $57.82. (The prices below might be slightly different to you as, due to exchange rate variations, and varying postage charges.)

A History of the Churches in the United States and Canada by Robert T. Handy $3.75 Link
A History of the Churches of Australasia by Ian Breward $74.05 Link
A History of the Popes 1830–1914 by Owen Chadwick $53.56 Link
Christianity in India: From Beginnings to the Present by Erik Frykenberg $34.34 Link
Church and Society in Eighteenth-Century France, vol. 1: The Clerical Establishment and its Social Ramifications by John McManners $26.46 Link
Church and Society in Eighteenth-Century France, vol. 2: The Religion of the People and the Politics of Religion by John McManners $130.52 Link
East and West: The Making of a Rift in the Church: From Apostolic Times until the Council of Florenceby Henry Chadwick $47.84 Link
England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales The Christian Church 1900-2000 by Keith Robbins $28.19 Link
German and Scandinavian Protestantism 1700–1918 by Nicholas Hope $100.15 Link
Reformation in Britain and Ireland by Felicity Heal $40.78 Link
Religion in England 1688–1791 by Gordon Rupp $113.16 Link
The Church in Africa 1450–1950 by Adrian Hastings $106.48 Link
The Church in Ancient Society: From Galilee to Gregory the Great by Henry Chadwick $41.73 Link
The Early Reformation on the Continent by Owen Chadwick $33.89 Link
The Frankish Church by J. M. Wallace-Hadrill $69.87 Link
The Orthodox Church in the Byzantine Empire by J. M. Hussey and Andrew Louth $33.36 Link
The Papal Monarchy: The Western Church from 1050–1250 by Colin Morris $71.36 Link
The Popes and European Revolution by Owen Chadwick $31.23 Link

So the total is

$1,040.72

which is 30% off of Logos price

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504566#Comment_504566

Ok, George ... so as to not look too 'stinked up', I compared. My Libby's got 28 resource layouts across the top (though, true, I use text, not icons). L5 has 8. My memory'd never survive just 8 and the touch screen is a disaster trying to scroll them in L5.

And after 4 years of L4/L5, those surprise-me-yet-again, pop-a-top resource openings are still my daily routine. The simplest of reference clicks with a right-click still doesn't allow opening to a floating window (demonstrating Logos doesn't have UI guides, each coder apparently trying to remember what they did the previous week). Plus there's the drag-and-drop to a tab location that's only partially implemented. At least when pop-a-top happens, they carefully place all non-system results in my 2nd window, lower left even though I'm working in window 5. I'm trained to dutifully squint lower left and alt-tab back.

Net result is policing the layout before doing a layout update. I still think they need software users at Logos HQ (maybe from their marketing group).

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504646#Comment_504646

Ok, George ... so as to not look too 'stinked up', I compared. My Libby's got 28 resource layouts across the top (though, true, I use text, not icons). L5 has 8. My memory'd never survive just 8 and the touch screen is a disaster trying to scroll them in L5.

And after 4 years of L4/L5, those surprise-me-yet-again, pop-a-top resource openings are still my daily routine. The simplest of reference clicks with a right-click still doesn't allow opening to a floating window (demonstrating Logos doesn't have UI guides, each coder apparently trying to remember what they did the previous week). Plus there's the drag-and-drop to a tab location that's only partially implemented. At least when pop-a-top happens, they carefully place all non-system results in my 2nd window, lower left even though I'm working in window 5. I'm trained to dutifully squint lower left and alt-tab back.

Net result is policing the layout before doing a layout update. I still think they need software users at Logos HQ (maybe from their marketing group).

Lo siento, no comprendo.

William Gabriel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504182#Comment_504182

Where is the sale, can someone explain me. Advertisement claims big discount

...

DISCOUNT WILL NEVER BE LIKE THIS BIG AGAIN, all I can say is wow

I'm with Wild Eagle on this one. Here are my images. With the wording given, I'm pretty sure Logos will never entice me to upgrade.

After clicking "Upgrade now"...

I'm...underwhelmed.