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Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 3 2017 2:26 PM

Graham Criddle:

Yeah, when I read what Bob said at that link when he first posted it, I gave up all hope for this feature. I was holding my breath for a long time hoping for Personal Books to come to iOS... but not anymore. I've moved on. Sadly.

Bob Pritchett:

right now, based on present use cases and number of users, it's at the very bottom of our priority list.

Posts 9
Ben McGhee | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 7 2019 6:53 PM

I was very disappointed when I read this post back in 2017.  It was time to replace my aging iPad and I desperately wanted to use Personal Books on the platform.  I purchased a Macbook Air to satisfy my Logos / electronic Bible study needs.  It's been working, but I'm still hoping to upgrade to an iPad Pro some day.  BookBuilder on PocketBible has been a saving grace.  Can someone help me understand if there is a technical reason why accessing Personal Books on the iPad Pro is not possible.  After all, Personal Books can be shared on different PCs own by an individual.  How much more does it take to extend that capability to the iPad Pro?

Next, I'm wondering what Logos will do if / when Apple makes a Macbook running on the ARM (A-Series) CPU?  Will they implement the desktop or mobile version of Logos?  That may depend on the OS version Apple chooses to use: MacOS vs iPadOS.  Will they extend Personal Books to that platform?  With Microsoft and Samsung introducing PCs running on an ARM chip, the future of ARM chips and Logos will be interesting.  Comments?

Posts 798
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 7 2019 8:10 PM

Ben McGhee:

Can someone help me understand if there is a technical reason why accessing Personal Books on the iPad Pro is not possible.  After all, Personal Books can be shared on different PCs own by an individual.  How much more does it take to extend that capability to the iPad Pro?

Next, I'm wondering what Logos will do if / when Apple makes a Macbook running on the ARM (A-Series) CPU?  Will they implement the desktop or mobile version of Logos?  That may depend on the OS version Apple chooses to use: MacOS vs iPadOS.  Will they extend Personal Books to that platform?  With Microsoft and Samsung introducing PCs running on an ARM chip, the future of ARM chips and Logos will be interesting.  Comments?

Ben, I don't think there is a technical limitation for Faithlife's decision not to allow personal books on mobile, or at least I can't remember reading it. The reasons Bob has given include mostly financial and competitive reasons. There are likely potential legal reasons as well because if a user ripped off copyrighted material and created a personal book with it, then Faithlife would be storing it on their servers.

To your second question, I don't think I have read anything on that yet. It is an interesting question and one that could have technical implications. Someone with more technical knowledge will need to chime in on that. 

Posts 9
Ben McGhee | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 8 2019 3:53 AM

Bill, Thanks for the feedback.  What's the difference between copyrighted material on a desktop / laptop verses a phone / tablet running a mobile OS?  The lines are really blurred.  Checkout the following article for more details about Apple potentially using ARM CPUs in Macbooks.

https://9to5mac.com/2019/02/21/mac-marzipan-arm-next-year-maybe/

This source has been fairly accurate with leaks and rumors over the years.  Apple will most likely adopt this technology if it proves successful in the industry.  It has huge financial implications for Apple.

Posts 2413
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 8 2019 4:35 AM

Bill Anderson:

Ben, I don't think there is a technical limitation for Faithlife's decision not to allow personal books on mobile, or at least I can't remember reading it. The reasons Bob has given include mostly financial and competitive reasons. There are likely potential legal reasons as well because if a user ripped off copyrighted material and created a personal book with it, then Faithlife would be storing it on their servers.

As Faithlife finds more and more PBB resources that maybe a violation of Copyrights we might expect them to stop uploading our PBBs to their servers and force us to rebuild the PBB on each machine we have.  Not saying the they will but that they might.  

As for technical limitations: we can use the same scan function to load PBB or Logos files from another computer to load up a new machine.  The files seem to be identical.  They only have to build a scan function into the mobile devices.  They chose not to mostly for Copyright reasons. 

[[my guess would be that most PBB users have spent over $10,000 on Logos books and are thus in the top percentage of Logos users]]

Posts 10102
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 8 2019 5:55 AM

I think I remember technical issues as well as potential copyright vios: on desktop, we build our own indexes, whereas on mobile the indexes are built by Faithlife. There are about 30k books in the Logos catalog - the PBs of only a couple hundred users would surpass this number, and the PBs tend to be large and complex (bibles in Asian scripts, Mark Barnes' wikipedia clone, compilations of "my own commentary to the bible" and year-long sermon archives). This requires a technical solution that allows them to at least build only one central PB version of a certain document, possibly introduce quotas etc.

Those aspects should be solvable, but back then under an ownership model, PB as a functionality was only a cost factor. And even fully out-of-copyright books might be perceived as cutting into future revenue of FL, should they one day decide to publish the book that was offered as PB before. I would expect most existing PBs to be Public Domain books.

The "copyright vio" thing was - as I remember it -   a trigger event for Bob when he found that many PB users had a PB of a very popular book by an ultra-reformed author which was not available through FL at the time, but could be obtained from sources such as CCEL. I'm not even sure whether this book and others are "real" copyright violations on the part of users who could claim fair use, format change from a legit copy or other such arguments, but it may cut into business plans making such a book available, or just into the atmosphere of talks with a reluctant publisher, should this publisher's negotiators point to the existence of the PB. 

But anyway, my understanding would be that should FL see a possibility to make PB from a cost factor to something that is contributing, they would re-evaluate the mobile availability. In Libronix times, people had to pay for the PB compiler. I could imagine a subscription (maybe even "metered" in terms of number or size) for mobile PB use, or PB "NextGen" becoming part of FL Connect. 

But assuming FL doesn't change anything regarding PBs - PBs on the desktop may be sufficient: When a pad device runs native desktop OS, the issue will be gone anyway. On the other hand, with ever increasing power of mobile devices and constant connectivity, it becomes a real scenario to run a desktop version of Logos at home and just remotely use this thing from a tablet.  

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 2413
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 9 2019 6:45 PM

JT (alabama24):

David Ames:
What if Logos added a LOCAL sync to mobile device commend that did all of the work on your computer without going through the Logos servers?

Personally, I wouldn't prefer that solution. There aren't many apps that work that way on iOS, and only "geeks" would really know what to do. IMO, I think working with dropbox and/or iCloud is the way to go. 

Question: it you have two [or more] text editing programs on an iOS device can they all edit the same file or can they only edit files loaded by iTunes into the sandbox of the edit program assigned to the file?    [[that is can file A be used by X, Y, and Z. or can X only use files given to X by iTunes and Y only use files given to Y by iTunes. and the same for Z]]    [[and Yes, I know that Logos indexing is not done on the mobile device]]

Posts 5090
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 9 2019 9:48 PM

Ben McGhee:

Bill, Thanks for the feedback.  What's the difference between copyrighted material on a desktop / laptop verses a phone / tablet running a mobile OS?  The lines are really blurred.  

The difference is that FL do not own these devices. 

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