NIV version

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 15 2013 9:24 AM

John:
I do think it a crime against the end user to charge a person for what is essentially the same license multiple times

Really? Is it a crime to charge someone three different times to see a movie in the theatre three different times?

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Adam Rao | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 15 2013 9:31 AM

alabama24:

John:
I do think it a crime against the end user to charge a person for what is essentially the same license multiple times

Really? Is it a crime to charge someone three different times to see a movie in the theatre three different times?

My own personal opinion – Since the NIV 1984 and TNIV are no longer available for purchase, Biblica (or Logos) really should figure out a way to allow users who already own a digital license for these versions of the Bible to 'transfer' that license to another software program (i.e. from Accordance to Logos or vice-versa). At the very least, they should allow those of us who own these versions already a way of re-purchasing them in another software if we so choose. Even though I wouldn't be happy about it, I'd gladly pay to be able to buy NIV 1984 and TNIV for Logos since, otherwise, I have to continue using two different software programs just to get at these translations.

The way Biblica is handling this seems a bit silly to me. For goodness sake, they could even require that, for Logos to sell the NIV84 and TNIV to a user with a digital license elsewhere means that the user must also purchase the NIV11. It'd still be a better option than forcing people who want to use the non-Anglicized version of NIV84 to have to use two software programs just because you didn't switch software early enough in the transition process.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 15 2013 10:03 AM

Adam Rao:
The way Biblica is handling this seems a bit silly to me.

I agree. I think Biblica should make the NIV84 available for purchase to anyone... I understand why they don't want to, but agree that it is "silly." I think the least objectionable (to Biblica) and most reasonable solution would be for the NIV84 to be made available in base packages again. This would still have the effect of driving sales towards the NIV11 (since it would still be unavailable for the masses), but would allow Pastor's and Scholars the ability to access the NIV for comparative and historical reasons. Even if Pastor's continued to preach from the NIV84, congregants would have no choice but to purchase a NIV11 when it was time to update. It would be better for Biblica for Pastors to continue preaching from the NIV84, than for them to switch to the ESV or other translation.

FYI - My objection above was to the word "crime." Hopefully John was speaking figuratively. Wink

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Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 15 2013 10:05 AM

Adam Rao:

Logos ... really should figure out a way to allow users who already own a digital license for these versions of the Bible to 'transfer' that license to another software program (i.e. from Accordance to Logos or vice-versa). At the very least, they should allow those of us who own these versions already a way of re-purchasing them in another software if we so choose. Even though I wouldn't be happy about it, I'd gladly pay to be able to buy NIV 1984 and TNIV for Logos since, otherwise, I have to continue using two different software programs just to get at these translations.

You need to get this straight: Logos' hands are tied. They can't do anything about the situation.

If Logos were to follow your suggestion, they would expose themselves to massive legal liability, not to mention a lock-out from Zondervan and other publishing giants.

Posts 397
John | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 15 2013 1:21 PM

alabama24:

John:
I do think it a crime against the end user to charge a person for what is essentially the same license multiple times

Really? Is it a crime to charge someone three different times to see a movie in the theatre three different times?

If you had entered into a legal contract which gave you the right to display the movie on one screen for viewing purposes, then to charge you again would be double charging you. You did not pay to license rights to view a movie, you paid an admission fee to enter a theater.

Apples to Oranges my friend Cool

Posts 397
John | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 15 2013 1:30 PM

Adam Rao:

My own personal opinion – Since the NIV 1984 and TNIV are no longer available for purchase, Biblica (or Logos) really should figure out a way to allow users who already own a digital license for these versions of the Bible to 'transfer' that license to another software program (i.e. from Accordance to Logos or vice-versa). At the very least, they should allow those of us who own these versions already a way of re-purchasing them in another software if we so choose. Even though I wouldn't be happy about it, I'd gladly pay to be able to buy NIV 1984 and TNIV for Logos since, otherwise, I have to continue using two different software programs just to get at these translations.

The way Biblica is handling this seems a bit silly to me. For goodness sake, they could even require that, for Logos to sell the NIV84 and TNIV to a user with a digital license elsewhere means that the user must also purchase the NIV11. It'd still be a better option than forcing people who want to use the non-Anglicized version of NIV84 to have to use two software programs just because you didn't switch software early enough in the transition process.

I agree Adam. But all the software companies have been forced into this. Most of them have allowed for previously licensed copies to still be viewed, but no new copies may be sold ... due to the publishers desire to use the monopoly position of the older NIV in order to catapult the gender principles in the TNIV (which were soundly rejected by evangelicals) into a top spot in the Bible publishing hierarchy.

Evangelicals rejected the TNIV and stuck with the 1984 NIV. So this time, they made sure there was no 1984 NIV.

The good news is that there are many very good alternatives today. And sticking with the 1984 NIV is still a viable alternative on an individual level. You can still buy it in print if you look hard enough.

Posts 255
Sogol | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 15 2013 7:20 PM

If anyone really needs the NIV84 and TNIV, there is a very recent post over at the StillTruth forums that may be of help:

http://www.stilltruth.com/forums/logos-bible-software/great-finds

Posts 753
Josh Hunt | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 15 2013 8:36 PM

key thing about the new NIV is it is tied into the reverse interlinear and word studies. 

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Stephen | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 16 2013 8:42 AM

Hello Jacques,

Having just upgraded to Logos 5.1. I'm still learning to use this wonderful software!

I've had the privilege of studying/researching the various Bible versions over the past few years, and I learned a few things. While the NIV is the best translation on the state of the dead--I do not recommend it as a study Bible all by itself. The NIV (and many modern versions) is based upon 2 manuscripts, Sainiticus and the Vaticanus--both found hundreds of years ago, (one in a trash can) that were written over cross-outs, and with many deletions. Then, Hort and Westcott, who are well known for creating the Ghostly Guild, attended seances for many years, proceeded to change words, added, and deleted words in these two manuscripts, under commission from the Church of England.

The NIV is missing over 6,000 words which you will find there in the Majority Text, which is essentially 1900 extant manuscripts all in agreement, including the Dead Sea Scrolls. In addition, I found that many vital words had been changed, which serve to change Bible doctrines especially that downgrade the Deity of Jesus Christ.

Here is a small sample from my article on Bible versions:

Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE

Matthew 5:44

But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which spitefully use you, and persecute you (AKJV, same as the KJV).

 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, (NIV).

These words are omitted by the NIV; “bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you” and, “which spitefully use you.” Satan prefers that we do not bless and do good to those that curse us, and hate us. Jesus, our example blessed the ones who hated Him—even dying for the sins of these who hated Him and nailed Him to the cruel cross.

Matthew 18:11

For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost (AKJV).

NIV: Completely gone. The chapter goes from vs. 10 to vs. 12.

Satan and his followers, both evil angels and men, do not accept the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross to save lost sinners. They prefer that all others do not know this truth as well.

Please do not infer or suggest that I believe that those who use the NIV are followers of Satan. I am addressing issues concerning Bible versions--not any person.

(http://everlasting-gospel.blogspot.com/2012/07/subtle-changes-in-gods-holy-word.html)

Posts 171
Adam Rao | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 16 2013 11:29 AM

Lee:

You need to get this straight: Logos' hands are tied. They can't do anything about the situation.

If Logos were to follow your suggestion, they would expose themselves to massive legal liability, not to mention a lock-out from Zondervan and other publishing giants.

Lee – you may want to read what I wrote again. I said, quite specifically, that Biblica (or Logos) should look into this. Biblica is, clearly, the culprit here, not Logos, though I can't imagine there's "massive legal liability" to be had unless Biblica has made it clear to Logos that they cannot, under any circumstances, allow people to have the NIV84 and/or TNIV even if they own it for another product. (Which may be the case; Biblica has never said so publicly as far as I know.) The transition statement from Biblica made it very clear that the NIV84 and TNIV wouldn't be available for purchase anymore, but not necessarily that licenses couldn't be transferred; thus the reason I wonder whether either organization could figure out a way forward for those of us who own licenses on different software platforms.

Personally, I want access to the NIV84 and TNIV in Logos because these were the translations I used for years and years and years – growing up, in college, after college. I don't use them for preaching anymore (because no one can buy them!), but would like to have them in my software of choice for the sake of still being able to read them and, quite frankly, to search them. When I can't remember a particular reference and have to search the Bible for it, more than half the time I still can't find it quickly because the words I'm remembering are in a translation I don't have access to in Logos anymore.

It's a sad situation. Here's hoping Biblica will remedy it.

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 16 2013 11:43 AM

Much of the stuff that remains is listed as LIbronix, not Logos.

Some (but little) ebible stuff remains as well.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 879
P A | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 16 2013 11:46 AM

The British version of NIV 1984 is here

http://www.logos.com/product/29979/the-holy-bible-new-international-version-anglicised

Not much different to US version, some words, some spelling.

*Not linked to interlinear.

P A

Posts 397
John | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 16 2013 3:06 PM

Stephen:

NIV: Completely gone. The chapter goes from vs. 10 to vs. 12.

Well it looks like Gail Riplinger still has at least one fan. If the publishers of the NIV were satanic and the NIV was their weapon, didn't they shoot themselves in the foot by taking it off the market? Devil

Posts 2465
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 16 2013 3:32 PM

Adam Rao:

Lee:

You need to get this straight: Logos' hands are tied. They can't do anything about the situation.

If Logos were to follow your suggestion, they would expose themselves to massive legal liability, not to mention a lock-out from Zondervan and other publishing giants.

Lee – you may want to read what I wrote again. I said, quite specifically, that Biblica (or Logos) should look into this. Biblica is, clearly, the culprit here, not Logos, though I can't imagine there's "massive legal liability" to be had unless Biblica has made it clear to Logos that they cannot, under any circumstances, allow people to have the NIV84 and/or TNIV even if they own it for another product. (Which may be the case; Biblica has never said so publicly as far as I know.) The transition statement from Biblica made it very clear that the NIV84 and TNIV wouldn't be available for purchase anymore, but not necessarily that licenses couldn't be transferred; thus the reason I wonder whether either organization could figure out a way forward for those of us who own licenses on different software platforms.

Martha (or Mary) should cook the chicken before it turns bad.
[I'm just saying that Martha's being lazy! Of course, I just happened to mention Mary because they are sisters, and because this is a forum about Mary. No, I am implying absolutely nothing about Mary.]

You may want to read what you actually write.

You can't imagine "massive legal liability" if Logos gives free licences or nominal upgrade licences or institutes some novel scheme to allow NIV84 licencees in other software packages to have the same licence in Logos ... "unless Biblica has made it clear to Logos that they cannot, under any circumstances, allow people to have the NIV84 and/or TNIV even if they own it for another product"?

Quite obviously, there's something about contract law, licensing arrangements and practical business in general that you and I will hold very different views about. So I'll stop here.

 

Posts 3
Stephen | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 16 2013 3:35 PM

The publishers would not have this information..even if they did, I doubt it would matter to them.NIV Bibles are still on the market.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Satan began his attack on God's Word by misrepresenting what God had said, to Eve,"You shall NOT surely die."

Those who really desire to know/understand God's Word, will have it made plain to them by the Eternal One Himself. Changing His Words is a very serious matter indeed

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 16 2013 4:18 PM

Stephen:
The NIV is missing over 6,000 words which you will find there in the Majority Text...

This discussion really is outside the guidelines for these forums. These forums exist to discuss Logos Bible software. There are other places to discuss this, and I'm sure there are folks with strong feelings on both sides. On these forums, such discussions have rarely proved productive as most folks here are already well-versed in the various discussion points and have made up their minds.

Please feel free to discuss Logos software, or ask for help in using it.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 16 2013 4:43 PM

Richard DeRuiter:

Stephen:
The NIV is missing over 6,000 words which you will find there in the Majority Text...

This discussion really is outside the guidelines for these forums. These forums exist to discuss Logos Bible software. There are other places to discuss this, and I'm sure there are folks with strong feelings on both sides. On these forums, such discussions have rarely proved productive as most folks here are already well-versed in the various discussion points and have made up their minds.

Please feel free to discuss Logos software, or ask for help in using it.

Richard!                                    Peace and Blessing!                                           Thank you very much indeed for reminding us about the Forum guidelines.            These Logos Forums are very important to so many for so many reasons; and it's truly great when forum users take responsibility to maintain the good relationships we have!                   Appreciated!

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 181
Jacques | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 16 2013 5:08 PM

Thanks everyone for the very useful and informative comments!

I ended up on the phone with Logos, just finished up a moment ago. It turns out I bought in April 2011, which was after the changes have already been made.

I asked for the NIV84 complimentary, the first representative said that would be alright - and that someone in another department would take care of me. I was sent to Sales, and was told they would not be able to comp it.

Oh well, again - thanks for the great posts and discussions everyone. =) Learned quite a bit, as these changes have just recently come to my attention...

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Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 16 2013 5:18 PM

I love a happy ending!

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 16 2013 5:26 PM

Lee:

I love a happy ending!

   Psalm 106:47-48

47    Save us, O Lord our God,

and gather us from among the nations,

       that we may give thanks to your holy name

and glory in your praise.

48    Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel,

from everlasting to everlasting!

       And let all the people say, “Amen!”

Praise the Lord!

 

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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