Downside to Dynamic Pricing???

Page 1 of 1 (13 items)
This post has 12 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 255
Sogol | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jul 18 2013 11:56 PM

I was looking at purchasing the new Complete Classic Commentaries Bundle (http://www.logos.com/product/33554/the-complete-classic-commentaries-bundle), but a question came to mind that concerned me.

My question is this:

If I purchase this using dynamic pricing (my price would only be about $350), does that mean that all the collections I own which contain any volumes in this collection are now "locked together" and can never be transferred out of my account unless they are all transferred together?

For example, I already own several collections which contain volumes that are included in the CCCB. Such collections include base packages, collections purchased in community pricing, and others. Since those collections I already own are taken into account when Logos determines my dynamic price for the CCCB, does my purchase of the CCCB essentially transform all those collections into one big collection where the individual collections can no longer be separated?

I don't know if this makes sense, or if I am even correctly understanding how dynamic pricing works. I also don't have any immediate desire to part with any Logos collections I own. However, if I am understanding this correctly, then I think this is an important issue, and therefore Logos needs to be fully transparent and make sure that those who use dynamic pricing understand the implications. If you use dynamic pricing and then decide, for example, that you want to transfer a collection to someone else, you would be prevented from doing so.

I'd appreciate the perspective from someone at Logos or anyone who understands what I am getting at.

Thanks.

 

Posts 2465
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 19 2013 12:34 AM

You are concerned that your discrete collections, which supposedly have substantial resale value, would be agglomerated into one licence, which is supposedly harder to sell.

And it would seem that you are right, because if you sell one of the discrete collections away, it leaves a big-bundle-minus-one licence, which does not exist.

In effect, by agreeing to purchase the big bundle under the dynamic pricing scheme, you are impliedly agreeing to a re-licencing arrangement. I say impliedly, because I am not aware of any express contractual provision from Logos. Maybe Logos should bring this to the attention of users.

Posts 4753
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 19 2013 1:04 AM

Good question. I won't ever sell my Logos library, but I would like to know how this would be handled.

Posts 255
Sogol | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 19 2013 1:24 AM

Like I said, I have no desire to part with anything in my Logos library for the foreseeable future. And I believe that most Logos users likewise love their libraries and don't plan on getting rid of anything they own anytime soon. Furthermore, I don't think there is much money to be made in selling your Logos library, as it has been my observation that most people that do so have to sell significantly below the prices offered directly from Logos.

Nevertheless, many Logos users have expressed a desire to transfer resources to others at some point, perhaps when they retire from ministry or no longer use certain books anymore. I know that for me personally, it was a very difficult decision to abandon my physical library and go with Logos, but just knowing that I had the option to transfer licenses helped give me a sense of continued control over my library and generally enhanced the overall attractiveness of Logos.

So I hate to jump to any negative conclusions about this, but this could be perceived as a stealthy way to remove a significant amount of transferability and create a lot more friction with respect to resources moving between accounts. And since the deals from dynamic pricing look so good, I'm not sure that everyone understands what undesired effect this might have for them down the road.

Posts 255
Sogol | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 19 2013 1:38 AM

Lee:

In effect, by agreeing to purchase the big bundle under the dynamic pricing scheme, you are impliedly agreeing to a re-licencing arrangement. I say impliedly, because I am not aware of any express contractual provision from Logos. Maybe Logos should bring this to the attention of users.

Per my understanding, I think that is probably a fair way to characterize it - an implied agreement to a re-licensing arrangement. And that's why I think full transparency is necessary here so that there aren't a bunch of users down the road who feel angry and betrayed.

Posts 1631
Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 19 2013 1:41 AM

Sogol:
If I purchase this using dynamic pricing (my price would only be about $350), does that mean that all the collections I own which contain any volumes in this collection are now "locked together" and can never be transferred out of my account unless they are all transferred together?

Hmm. Good q.

Not sure it's a down-side though. If a resource was in Bundle A and Bundle B, and you sold Bundle A to someone else, then couldn't you buy Bundle B again from Logos to get the missing resource?

Of course, that assumes Logos fully implements dynamic pricing. Currently that is not a valid assumption.

Posts 255
Sogol | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 19 2013 1:54 AM

I suppose this does raise the question of whether it's time to move towards a model where the collections that users purchase become collections of individual licenses to individual books. Logos could still choose to offer to sell certain books only as parts of collections, but once the collection is purchased the user has a collection of individual licenses rather than one license for the full collection. While I'm sure this might require a lot of administrative hassle and revamping of systems, I believe that it's much easier for users to understand, much more fair to users, and it would eliminate most or all of the potential problem we are discussing here with dynamic pricing.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 19 2013 7:18 AM

Sogol:
the user has a collection of individual licenses rather than one license for the full collection.

Buying in collections is the best way to get the cheapest price per volume. If you want individual licences for each book you can go ahead and spend $26.95 or $39.95 or whatever rather than the $2.25 per volume you get it for in bundles. Can you imagine how many pages your list of licenses would be if they were for individual books? 

Logos began breaking up collections at buyer request but the price per volume always goes up (with one exception I know of.) All the mega-sales Logos has promoted over the last few years should make it clear they want to sell truckloads of books with the least amount of administration. It is to our benefit to have big bundles. Most of us will never part and parcel out our libraries. When I pass away there will likely be only one transfer of licenses  to a new user. My wife would not know how to divide any resources.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 19 2013 11:08 AM

Sogol:
If I purchase this using dynamic pricing (my price would only be about $350), does that mean that all the collections I own which contain any volumes in this collection are now "locked together" and can never be transferred out of my account unless they are all transferred together?

I dare say it works just like before: if you get credit for books owned, you have to keep owning those books, so, yes, they're 'locked together' -- unless you acquire a second set of licenses for the overlapping books (or manage to find someone who happens to already own those exact books).

Sogol:
I suppose this does raise the question of whether it's time to move towards a model where the collections that users purchase become collections of individual licenses to individual books.

Won't happen. It's a pretty certain recipe for bankruptcy. People would buy large base packages and bundles for $1-2/resource and sell what they didn't want for perhaps $5/resource. Result: they'd get their own books for free, and Logos would lose enormous sums in sales. See Bob's post at http://community.logos.com/forums/p/87/677.aspx#677.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 19 2013 5:41 PM

I used to have the Catechism. It's not longer sold to the whole world. I had upgraded my Verbum base-package to L5 (same package size) and some months later wanted to gift away just the books that were new to L5. Well, I ended up gifting away both L4 and L5 to that person living on a disability income having $7 left each month. I don't regret my move even though I can no-longer have the Catechism because the monk said in the RCIA class that the Catechism is no good. Additionally, others said the Catechism is conservative.

(I took a Word document copy of the Catechism before I let go of it, that'll be enough.)

I seem to be buying used all the time.

Sogol, I was unsuccessful so far in trying to borrow someone's American/Canadian address by trying to email the pastor who is on vacation in the States, so I'll try this Sunday at Church and then talk to You again by email regarding the unopened unused Bible Study Library! And how much extra would You charge for shipping it overseas (to Sweden)?

Aply!
trulyergonomic.com 5,850own
12G A9-9420 V8.3 Acc 11
d:'13Q3 12G

Posts 1806
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 23 2013 8:09 AM

Sogol, good question. We should probably add this to a dynamic pricing FAQ and/or our return policy page.

We do indeed fuse together products that serve as the basis for receiving dynamic pricing. If we didn't, there could be some massive cheating of the system. Someone could buy Diamond, use it to upgrade to Portfolio at a great price, and then return Diamond and keep Portfolio for a steal (literally). The current system exists to prevent such cases, whether they happen intentionally or unintentionally.

Of course, our desire is that you never return or sell anything. But we do allow it. You do have options beside a full license transfer or a transfer of all of the components now fused together as a result of DP.

What we basically do is allow you to return the collection that fused everything together, which would essentially unfuse everything and return it to its prior state. You'd then be free to transfer a subset of the formerly fused content. You could then repurchase (at a higher price) the collection that had previously fused everything together. I believe we can handle all of this in a single transaction, but I'm not positive.

Posts 2465
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 23 2013 9:33 PM

@ Phil Gons:

There should be something in black and white, not just the FAQ, to avoid a legal foul-up.

Posts 255
Sogol | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 25 2013 1:25 AM

Phil Gons:

Sogol, good question. We should probably add this to a dynamic pricing FAQ and/or our return policy page.

We do indeed fuse together products that serve as the basis for receiving dynamic pricing. If we didn't, there could be some massive cheating of the system. Someone could buy Diamond, use it to upgrade to Portfolio at a great price, and then return Diamond and keep Portfolio for a steal (literally). The current system exists to prevent such cases, whether they happen intentionally or unintentionally.

Of course, our desire is that you never return or sell anything. But we do allow it. You do have options beside a full license transfer or a transfer of all of the components now fused together as a result of DP.

What we basically do is allow you to return the collection that fused everything together, which would essentially unfuse everything and return it to its prior state. You'd then be free to transfer a subset of the formerly fused content. You could then repurchase (at a higher price) the collection that had previously fused everything together. I believe we can handle all of this in a single transaction, but I'm not positive.

 

Thanks for the response, Phil. I appreciate the thorough and detailed explanation.

Page 1 of 1 (13 items) | RSS