A very exciting collection on pre-pub

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Posts 670
Sleiman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 2 2013 9:33 AM

Eric Weiss:

Thanks, George. Cool

Bye-bye, Trench's Synonyms (or at least caveat emptor).

Wow... ok I feel a little compelled to reply and so I apologize in advance if I sound rude, I don't intend to. Eric, I agree with you about the meaning of agape but that's as far as agreement goes. You should have stopped there and not insinuate that Kreeft's works are now doubtful because that's certainly how I read your comments. 

Eric Weiss:
Not a particular pet peeve, but reciting disproven hoary old "preacher Greek" chestnuts, whether from the pulpit or in print, does irritate me.
Ok I understand, but to me equally irritating is drifting off topic, appointing one's self as judge over "faulty" conclusions because of an error in the meaning of a word, turning discussion into a more-intelligent-than-thou attitude and almost insinuating debate. 

Eric Weiss:
Kreeft isn't doing that here

So what's the point of your rhetoric?

Eric Weiss:
, but his premise that agape is a special possession of God's, which it's not, means his conclusion can be faulted.
Only if it's a premise that the conclusion depends on. In this case, that does not apply. How does the misunderstanding about agape's meaning undermine the point made in the quote that prayer is needed inasmuch as love is needed? The meaning of agape has no bearing on the conclusion.  

I think this hullabaloo about agape's meaning is a little over board. Yeah let's correct the myth, but that does not mean boycotting Kreeft. If it does no one should buy any book here. For example, I know some of Spurgeon's sermons are very offending to me and are totally wrong. I didn't go screaming "caveat emptor" in the thread promoting his works. Instead I bid on his books because I know he has good stuff there.

Kreeft happens to be a bit popular among Catholics; why don't you put an order and find out why?

Posts 670
Sleiman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 2 2013 9:36 AM

George Somsel:

Here's the passage that settles the matter completely—Jn 1.20

ὁ γὰρ πατὴρ φιλεῖ τὸν υἱὸν καὶ πάντα δείκνυσιν αὐτῷ ἃ αὐτὸς ποιεῖ, καὶ μείζονα τούτων δείξει αὐτῷ ἔργα, ἵνα ὑμεῖς θαυμάζητε.

Yes

Posts 670
Sleiman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 2 2013 6:06 PM

Kreeft about heaven:

But even if this theory is true it does not entail our omniscience. Even if there is no curtain in Heaven, even if our consciousness there dashes against no wall or limit, still we remain like the tiny figures in a Chinese landscape: small subjects in an enormously larger objective world. Even if we then escape from the tiny hut in which we are now imprisoned and through whose smudged windows or chinks in whose walls we now must look — even if we wander freely in the country of light — we are in the light, not the light in us. Our first and last wisdom in Heaven is Socratic, just as it is on earth: to know how little we know. If there is no end of the need for humility in the moral order (the saint is the one humble enough not to think he is a saint), the same is true of the intellectual order (the wise man is the one humble enough to know he has no wisdom). It all depends on the standard of judgment: by earthly standards most of us are moderately saintly and moderately wise; by Heavenly standards all of us, even in Heaven, are children. And by the standard of the infinite, inexhaustible perfection of God, we remain children forever. Happy children, fulfilled children, but children.

Posts 846
Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 2 2013 9:17 PM

.

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

Posts 846
Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 2 2013 9:24 PM

Sleiman:

Eric Weiss:

Thanks, George. Cool

Bye-bye, Trench's Synonyms (or at least caveat emptor).

Wow... ok I feel a little compelled to reply and so I apologize in advance if I sound rude, I don't intend to. Eric, I agree with you about the meaning of agape but that's as far as agreement goes. You should have stopped there and not insinuate that Kreeft's works are now doubtful because that's certainly how I read your comments. 

Eric Weiss:
Not a particular pet peeve, but reciting disproven hoary old "preacher Greek" chestnuts, whether from the pulpit or in print, does irritate me.
Ok I understand, but to me equally irritating is drifting off topic, appointing one's self as judge over "faulty" conclusions because of an error in the meaning of a word, turning discussion into a more-intelligent-than-thou attitude and almost insinuating debate. 

Eric Weiss:
Kreeft isn't doing that here

So what's the point of your rhetoric?

Eric Weiss:
, but his premise that agape is a special possession of God's, which it's not, means his conclusion can be faulted.
Only if it's a premise that the conclusion depends on. In this case, that does not apply. How does the misunderstanding about agape's meaning undermine the point made in the quote that prayer is needed inasmuch as love is needed? The meaning of agape has no bearing on the conclusion.  

I think this hullabaloo about agape's meaning is a little over board. Yeah let's correct the myth, but that does not mean boycotting Kreeft. If it does no one should buy any book here. For example, I know some of Spurgeon's sermons are very offending to me and are totally wrong. I didn't go screaming "caveat emptor" in the thread promoting his works. Instead I bid on his books because I know he has good stuff there.

Kreeft happens to be a bit popular among Catholics; why don't you put an order and find out why?

Slieman:

I never insinuated that Kreeft's works are doubtful, just faulted him for making a perhaps questionable conclusion based on a faulty premise regarding agape. I was not criticizing anything more than that or saying more than that one should be careful about using "preacher Greek." I like some of what I've read from Kreeft. My caveat emptor was about Trench's Synonyms, not Kreeft's works. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

Posts 670
Sleiman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 3 2013 5:15 AM

Eric Weiss:
My caveat emptor was about Trench's Synonyms, not Kreeft's works. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Oh!  I now see how that makes sense... duh Embarrassed. I'm so sorry I misunderstood you; it's embarrassing Embarrassed because I did the exact thing that I accused you of: making a big deal out of nothing! All is good I hope.

Posts 51
JZ | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 3 2013 8:32 AM

There are also collections of his Socratic dialogues, and a collection of more apologetic works.  Three cool collections by Dr. Kreeft.  (sorry I don't know hyperlinking, but if you search they show up in top).

In God we trust. All others bring data.
Posts 670
Sleiman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 3 2013 9:46 AM

JZ:

There are also collections of his Socratic dialogues, and a collection of more apologetic works.  Three cool collections by Dr. Kreeft.  (sorry I don't know hyperlinking, but if you search they show up in top).

You're right, thank you. Here are the hyperlinks:

Posts 670
Sleiman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 5 2013 6:57 PM

From Heaven, the Heart’s Deepest Longing:

Of course it is God we want. But not everyone knows that. How does one come to know it? Not merely by being preached at, nor by rational argument, but by experience - the Ausustinian experience of the restless heart and the Ecclesiastes experience of the vanity of everthing else. we find the presence of the absence of God, the God-shaped hole that nothing else can fill. Everyone, not just "religious people" (whoever they are), is born, built, and designed to feed on God-food; and when we try to feed on other food, we starve.

There lives in us, deep down in the heart, a little nightingale that keeps calling for its birdseed. It is a bothersome but infinitely precious little bird. The nightingale lives way down under a host of larger, louder animals, each demanding its food; so it is easy to ignore. It has a "still, small voice" (1 Kings 19:12). But when we ignore it, even if we feed all the other animals (which is impossible), we are not satisfied, because we are that nightingale and we are starving.

[....]

So we try to quiet this terrible, tiny voice. We feed the nightingale dog food and cat food and monkey food (especially monkey food). But it keeps crying for nightingale food, and we cannot find nightingale food. Yet, though we do not feed it, it does not die. We can muffle it, but like Bergman's knight, we cannot kill it.

This is our deepest failure, the failure to satisfy our deepest desire. To cover up our failure, we compensate with other successes: we feed the other animals. We have a wonderfully efficient animal-feeding machine: that prolific diversion factory, that endlessly self-perpetuating game we call our modern technological society. It keeps us too busy ever to hear our nightingale, for we hear that voice only in silence.

Posts 670
Sleiman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 7 2013 7:58 AM

Rev. Michael J. Albrecht (author of Mathew - the People's Bible Commentary) had this to say about Kreeft's Love is Stonger Than Death in the July 1994 issue of Logia. He also compared Kreeft's idea of death as birth with that of Luther's. You can find the complete context of this review of the book in the attached pdf.2273.127_Death as a Mother.PDF

A professor of philosophy at Boston College, Kreeft earned his PhD at Fordham. His uncanny ability
to ask the right questions grows out of his training in philosophy and combines with his
disarming sense of humor to make him a formidable apologist for Christianity. Among
his published works are Between Heaven and Hell, The Unaborted Socrates, and
Making Sense Out of Suffering.
One of Kreeft’s earlier books, entitled Love is Stronger than Death, was originally
published by Harper & Row in 1979. Ignatius Press republished it in 1992. In his
introduction Kreeft makes four vital points. First, “life is either totally meaningful or
totally meaningless, depending on what death is. Therefore we had better try to find out
what death is.”
This leads logically to his second point: “Much has been written lately on the medical
and psychological aspects of death, and on the cultural and sociological aspects of
death; but the primary question is surely the philosophical one, What is death? How we
approach death, feel about death, cope with death, and actually die depends on what
death is. What is its essence, its meaning? That is what we explore in this book.”

Posts 4625
RIP
Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 13 2013 8:04 AM

Thank you, Good Brother, for that .pdf link ...

Peace!                      *smile*

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 235
Brian Losabia | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 8:44 PM

My brother-in-law passed along a couple of Kreeft's lectures on CD, and I liked the lectures so much that I promptly logged on to the Logos website and placed a pre-order for the Kreeft theology collection.  You can listen to one of the talks that I heard, on Time and Eternity, here.

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 9:00 PM

Brian Losabia:

My brother-in-law passed along a couple of Kreeft's lectures on CD, and I liked the lectures so much that I promptly logged on to the Logos website and placed a pre-order for the Kreeft theology collection.  You can listen to one of the talks that I heard, on Time and Eternity, here.

It reminds me of the old Remington shaver ad where the guy says "I liked it so much I bought the company."  Big Smile

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 235
Brian Losabia | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 27 2013 6:51 AM

Well, I did like shaving with a DE razor (old fashioned "safety razor") so much that I gave one as a Christmas gift to a different brother-in-law.  Which reminds me: I need to mail my (paper) copy of the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible NT to the Kreeft CD BIL, since I have that resource in Logos now.

Posts 4625
RIP
Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 27 2013 7:32 AM

Sleiman:

Rev. Michael J. Albrecht (author of Mathew - the People's Bible Commentary) had this to say about Kreeft's Love is Stonger Than Death in the July 1994 issue of Logia. He also compared Kreeft's idea of death as birth with that of Luther's. You can find the complete context of this review of the book in the attached pdf.2273.127_Death as a Mother.PDF

A professor of philosophy at Boston College, Kreeft earned his PhD at Fordham. His uncanny ability
to ask the right questions grows out of his training in philosophy and combines with his
disarming sense of humor to make him a formidable apologist for Christianity. Among
his published works are Between Heaven and Hell, The Unaborted Socrates, and
Making Sense Out of Suffering.
One of Kreeft’s earlier books, entitled Love is Stronger than Death, was originally
published by Harper & Row in 1979. Ignatius Press republished it in 1992. In his
introduction Kreeft makes four vital points. First, “life is either totally meaningful or
totally meaningless, depending on what death is. Therefore we had better try to find out
what death is.”
This leads logically to his second point: “Much has been written lately on the medical
and psychological aspects of death, and on the cultural and sociological aspects of
death; but the primary question is surely the philosophical one, What is death? How we
approach death, feel about death, cope with death, and actually die depends on what
death is. What is its essence, its meaning? That is what we explore in this book.”

Peace, Brother Sleiman,                                     so!      You read Logia (http://logia.org/)      Good for you!

         I DID appreciate your post and your reference to Kreeft and thought I'd share one section of Luther's Works that might be apropos to our discussion here -- just in case you do not have Luther's Works, which I as a retired Lutheran pastor (LCMS) truly relish ....                I read the .pdf and this ....               so hope this is helpful and a blessing ........                                           *smile*

logosres:lw42;ref=VolumePage.V_42,_pp_99-102;off=0;ctx=~A_SERMON_ON_PREPARING_TO_DIE$0AMartin_Luth

A Sermon on Preparing to Die

Martin Luther, Augustinian Monk

First, since death marks a farewell from this world and all its activities, it is necessary that a man regulate his temporal goods properly or as he wishes to have them ordered, lest after his death there be occasion for squabbles, quarrels, or other misunderstanding among his surviving friends. This pertains to the physical or external departure from this world and to the surrender of our possessions.

Second, we must also take leave spiritually. That is, we must cheerfully and sincerely forgive, for God’s sake, all men who have offended us. At the same time we must also, for God’s sake, earnestly seek the forgiveness of all the people whom we undoubtedly have greatly offended by setting them a bad example or by bestowing too few of the kindnesses demanded by the law of Christian brotherly love. This is necessary lest the soul remain burdened by its actions here on earth.

Third, since everyone must depart, we must turn our eyes to God, to whom the path of death leads and directs us. Here we find the beginning of the narrow gate and of the straight path to life [Matt. 7:14]. All must joyfully venture forth on this path, for though the gate is quite narrow, the path is not long. Just as an infant is born with peril and pain from the small abode of its mother’s womb into this immense heaven and earth, that is, into this world, so man departs this life through the narrow gate of death. And although the heavens and the earth in which we dwell at present seem large and wide to us, they are nevertheless much narrower and smaller than the mother’s womb in comparison with the future heaven. Therefore, the death of the dear saints is called a new birth, and their feast day is known in Latin as natale, that is, the day of their birth. However, the narrow passage of death makes us think of this life as expansive and the life beyond as confined. Therefore, we must believe this and learn a lesson from the physical birth of a child, as Christ declares, “When a woman is in travail she has sorrow; but when she has recovered, she no longer remembers the anguish, since a child is born by her into the world” [John 16:21]. So it is that in dying we must bear this anguish and know that a large mansion and joy will follow [John 14:2].

Fourth, such preparation and readiness for this journey are accomplished first of all by providing ourselves with a sincere confession (of at least the greatest sins and those which by diligent search can be recalled by our memory), with the holy Christian sacrament of the holy and true body of Christ, and with the unction. If these can be had, one should devoutly desire them and receive them with great confidence. If they cannot be had, our longing and yearning for them should nevertheless be a comfort and we should not be too dismayed by this circumstance.3 Christ says, “All things are possible to him who believes” [Mark 9:23]. The sacraments are nothing else than signs which help and incite us to faith, as we shall see. Without this faith they serve no purpose.

Fifth, we must earnestly, diligently, and highly esteem the holy sacraments, hold them in honor, freely and cheerfully rely on them, and so balance them against sin, death, and hell that they will outweigh these by far. We must occupy ourselves much more with the sacraments and their virtues than with our sins. However, we must know how to give them due honor and we must know what their virtues are. I show them due honor when I believe that I truly receive what the sacraments signify and all that God declares and indicates in them, so that I can say with Mary in firm faith, “Let it be to me according to your words and signs” [Luke 1:38]. Since God himself here speaks and acts through the priest, we would do him in his Word and work no greater dishonor than to doubt whether it is true. And we can do him no greater honor than to believe that his Word and work are true and to firmly rely on them.

Sixth, to recognize the virtues of the sacraments, we must know the evils which they contend with and which we face. There are three such evils: first, the terrifying image of death; second, the awesomely manifold image of sin; third, the unbearable and unavoidable image of hell and eternal damnation.5 Every other evil issues from these three and grows large and strong as a result of such mingling.

Death looms so large and is terrifying because our foolish and fainthearted nature has etched its image too vividly within itself and constantly fixes its gaze on it. Moreover, the devil presses man to look closely at the gruesome mien and image of death to add to his worry, timidity, and despair. Indeed, he conjures up before man’s eyes all the kinds of sudden and terrible death ever seen, heard, or read by man. And then he also slyly suggests the wrath of God with which he [the devil] in days past now and then tormented and destroyed sinners. In that way he fills our foolish human nature with the dread of death while cultivating a love and concern for life, so that burdened with such thoughts man forgets God, flees and abhors death, and thus, in the end, is and remains disobedient to God.

We should familiarize ourselves with death during our lifetime, inviting death into our presence when it is still at a distance and not on the move. At the time of dying, however, this is hazardous and useless, for then death looms large of its own accord. In that hour we must put the thought of death out of mind and refuse to see it, as we shall hear. The power and might of death are rooted in the fearfulness of our nature and in our untimely and undue viewing and contemplating of it.

Seventh, sin also grows large and important when we dwell on it and brood over it too much. This is increased by the fearfulness of our conscience, which is ashamed before God and accuses itself terribly. That is the water that the devil has been seeking for his mill. He makes our sins seem large and numerous. He reminds us of all who have sinned and of the many who were d[1]     end of copied quote, although the article continues....

 



[1] Luther, M. (1999). Luther’s works, vol. 42: Devotional Writings I. (J. J. Pelikan, H. C. Oswald, & H. T. Lehmann, Eds.) (Vol. 42, pp. 99–102). Philadelphia: Fortress Press.

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 670
Sleiman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 27 2013 8:09 AM

Milford Charles Murray:
so hope this is helpful and a blessing
It is Smile thanks Milford! I like Luther's likening of death (to birth) as a narrow gate to a wider/larger life (heaven). Although I don't own Luther's works, they are now in my wish list Surprise

Milford Charles Murray:
so!      You read Logia (http://logia.org/)      Good for you!
Not a subscriber but it's fortunate that they offer some good articles for free online. I've got to confess Milford: I was looking for reviews of Kreeft's book from non Catholics as a way to promote his works when I found that article (downloadable pdf) on the LCMS website. I liked it and thought of sharing it here.

Posts 235
Brian Losabia | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 20 2013 9:18 AM

It looks like the Kreef theology collection is going to ship on 10/15.  :-) for my Logos library, and :-( for my wallet.  Even from the handful of Kreeft's lectures and essays which I've heard/read, there have been a few pearls of wisdom which have stuck with me.  For example: after hearing Kreeft propose that the true enemies of a Christian are demons and dark spiritual forces, it became somewhat easier for me to try to get inside of some of the Psalms which speak of God crushing the heads of our foes, smiting our enemies, etc.

Kreeft's catechism/commentary on the CCC is included in the theology collection as well.

Posts 4625
RIP
Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 20 2013 9:33 AM

Thanks for your post, Brian!         *smile*                                            Peace!                      I personally didn't know much about Kreeft prior to this, so I'm quite excited about getting to know him!

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 469
Nick Steffen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 20 2013 9:45 AM

It's too bad, though, that for all of his works coming in these pre-pub collections his Socratic Logic textbook is not included.

http://www.amazon.com/Socratic-Logic-Questions-Aristotelian-Principles/dp/1587318083

Posts 235
Brian Losabia | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 28 2013 2:29 PM

In case anyone was on the fence, I just wanted to give this thread a bump before the Kreeft theology collection ships (probably tomorrow, 10/29).  I'm most excited to read Angels and Demons, Prayer for Beginners, and the Catechism.  I've been behind on my Logos reading lately, and I think that this collection might just provide the impetus for me to hunker down and get the queue moving again. 

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