BDAG/BAGD confusion

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Posts 1992
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 10 2016 5:24 AM

Veli Voipio:

I recall one user suggested long time ago that those with BDAG should get BAGD for free as a compliment. I guess the publisher did not warm up to that suggestion?

BDAG is an updated edition of BAGD with brand new material.  There is no reason that the publisher should give away an updated or new edition.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 353
Virgil Buttram | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 10 2016 6:24 AM

Joseph Turner:

Veli Voipio:

I recall one user suggested long time ago that those with BDAG should get BAGD for free as a compliment. I guess the publisher did not warm up to that suggestion?

BDAG is an updated edition of BAGD with brand new material.  There is no reason that the publisher should give away an updated or new edition.

The suggestion was that purchasers of the newer edition get a free copy of the older. Still not common publisher practice, but its a request of a different nature.

Given the differences between the two editions as noted upthread, I'd be satisfied if each were available for sale. And for that, we have some precedent in Logos; it is even in the same genre of resources.

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 10 2016 8:11 AM

Rosie Perera:
Yeah, I've discovered that. As we speak I've been doing the math to figure out if I want to spring for Platinum...or...gasp!...even Portfolio. I'm finding that many of the books I've bought in the past two years, which they say I don't have when they compute my upgrade price, are in it. So it might bring the price down to reachable for me if they take those into account. Also, there are a number of resources in it that have been on my wishlist which if I add them all up would be more than what it would cost for me to upgrade.

Yeah !  You might even get The Scripture Alphabet of Animals — oh, wait, that's already free.  Wink

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1992
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 10 2016 2:22 PM

Virgil Buttram:

Joseph Turner:

Veli Voipio:

I recall one user suggested long time ago that those with BDAG should get BAGD for free as a compliment. I guess the publisher did not warm up to that suggestion?

BDAG is an updated edition of BAGD with brand new material.  There is no reason that the publisher should give away an updated or new edition.

The suggestion was that purchasers of the newer edition get a free copy of the older. Still not common publisher practice, but its a request of a different nature.

Given the differences between the two editions as noted upthread, I'd be satisfied if each were available for sale. And for that, we have some precedent in Logos; it is even in the same genre of resources.

Ah, I did indeed misread!  I still agree with you that it is unlikely.  I also agree that they should make both available.  I can't see why they wouldn't.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 10 2016 2:33 PM

Joseph Turner:
 I can't see why they wouldn't.

It is very common for publishers to withdraw previous editions when a new one is published. Faithlife likely no longer has nor is able to obtain the rights to the previous edition.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1992
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 10 2016 5:17 PM

MJ. Smith:

Joseph Turner:
 I can't see why they wouldn't.

It is very common for publishers to withdraw previous editions when a new one is published. Faithlife likely no longer has nor is able to obtain the rights to the previous edition.

I agree, but I would think this is more because they stop printing the earlier editions when the new edition comes out, but in the case of digital books, there is no limit to the number that can be sold.  That was my thinking.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 44
Mikael S | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 14 2016 4:01 AM

1) Is it realistic to, living in a small a bit distant country where English is not the first language of most people (besides that I'm not going to travel a lot), to look for and think I'll find some friend who is very interested in Theology/Exegetical work, who will perhaps co-author a book together with me? The person would not yet have to be on a really advanced level of studies but should be a bit open-minded so as our theologies (not methodologies) would not clash too much, but not as open-minded as having completely opposite beliefs to mine. The nearest seminary is small and some Months I barely have time to be there at all. I don't need to find such a person hurriedly, the question is whether finding one is realistic in the long run? I don't seem to alway have time to attend either Church or seminary. In seminary most students are currently up to 10-15 years younger, which doesn't hinder that much but they may not perceive me as being their generation and being used to living with the kind of ultramodern entertainment which has grown popular or understand how young adults of today spend their time and how to be friends, they may be right about all this but I am more used to young adults than they are guessing I am and I do use laptops and to some extent tablets (although not for viewing entertainment or video lectures).

2) Can I keep using BAGD for 2-3 decades from now? I like it. Will my scholarship especially when authoring a book, be considered outdated if I refer to BAGD say in the year 2037 (which is the date I predict to publish)? (No I don't think another new Edition will come out until then nor would I afford to buy it.) I do have a possibility to check BDAG but not at all times - I may have to uninstall software and re-install, as other softwares than Faithlife's have limitations regarding on how many computers You are allowed to install and I'm trying to choose and predict on which computer to install everything at the same time that might be the computer I wish gets the least wear so that I can keep using it for a very long time. And so I don't always have the possibility of comparing side-by-side, depending on which computer I'm at and whether I can carry two computers (question being if that helps more than hinders me and whether I can work at hours when there's enough desk space) and whether  I'm at and the amount of available RAM. In any case I will not have BDAG and BAGD installed simultaneously in the same software, ever! I will have limited funds to buy more books that reference a specific Edition of a lexicon directly and links to it.
I sometimes in current blog posts and book see authors stating that BAGD is the academic standard, do You think it's a typo or that they actually mean that BAGD is the minimum standard and if You can use newer it may be better but BAGD may suffice for some time or up to a certain level?

3) Will the 1979 BAGD suffice in the first semester of second year NT Greek?:

Bobby Terhune:
BDAG is improved, especially with Dankers extended definitions, but it did change the way some words were given definitions, and not all scholars were thrilled with Dankers changes. So its good to have both editions to use compare words sometimes. BDAG is now the "Standard" lexicon for serious work in Greek. FWIW I still find value in seeing the changes in definitions between the two editions.

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Posts 1992
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 14 2016 11:06 AM

Mikael S:
Can I keep using BAGD for 2-3 decades from now? I like it. Will my scholarship especially when authoring a book, be considered outdated if I refer to BAGD say in the year 2037 (which is the date I predict to publish)?

Hello again Unix!  I will answer this part of your very long and detailed posting, as it is the easiest and most closely related to the OP.  I would think if you are writing an academic book, you would indeed need to use the most current version of BAGD/BDAG, or whatever might be out at the time of your research/publication.  It would be generally frowned upon to use an outdated volume in current research.  The real benefit for me when I bought BAGD was that it filled in all of the links from other resources in my library that referenced it; however, I would still refer to BDAG first when doing current research.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 14 2016 11:52 AM

Joseph Turner:
The real benefit for me when I bought BAGD was that it filled in all of the links from other resources in my library that referenced it; however, I would still refer to BDAG first when doing current research.

With 60,891 BAGD links in my library that currently show do not have a resource license, would appreciate BAGD being added to BDAG bundle (preferred) OR application update so clicking BAGD link opens corresponding BDAG location.

Dreaming of BAGD resource unlock for BDAG owners due to 599 Logos resources having BAGD links.  Likewise dreaming of linking BAGD and BDAG for comparison of Danker's update with previous work.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 14 2016 12:16 PM

Hi, Joseph!
Large parts of the book will be academic, I will also be writing about life choices and choices regarding consumption, plus history, reading lists and perhaps chapter or verse-level English Bible version recommendations (if I deem it neutral enough vis-á-vis the readers when it comes to the English language will also include the order of priority how I use different English Bible versions for large chunks of the Bible each - see the signature of my Mikael S post where You can see links to Bible version discussion and in one of the posts I missed to paste a facebook link - the facebook link is in that signature right next to the link to the discussion post in question), and a bit of psychology and IF I think I have something to say also a few things about environment pollution concerns and what a regular poor person can do about that most effectively.
I'm thinking the book might be slightly more broadly appealing if I reference both BAGD and BDAG. My idea is to keep using BAGD throughout most of the process of researching and authoring the book, and when I find some time check whether I can spot BDAG and NIDNTTE (using Accordance for those two) saying something which contradicts BAGD. 4) I would prefer to be able to, in the final book, to tell both what the current research says about definitions and usage of words, with context, and what BAGD used to say. Do You think that will somewhat effectively contribute to the content of the book? Thereby readers equipped with lexicons from different periods of time should be able to read and benefit from my book and conclusions. As I'm interested in history I also have an interest in tracing things back in time - when were research results reached and concepts first defined? I will do my best with the tight budget I have and especially the somewhat large amount of books and journals I've already gathered (paying at least 75% myself, the rest my parents have paid and it doesn't look like it will be them paying any future books - I even myself wanted a shift in focus when it comes to the purposes for which I ask them), but as history tends to bury things I have to put a disclaimer into my book that I must have missed or not having afforded some sources or not paid for tickets to go to museums libraries within reach to really read each print source that looks promising. Even so what I'll find in old books will help readers as prices have likely gone up some by then or books having only been on very brief sales since then. The effort, if someone who reads my book finds it valuable, will help some to in general keep to books that are slightly old instead of investing in the very newest - I think that is both very interesting for both me and readers and something to put a bit of effort into both by educating myself (taking classes) and do searches, as I've casually spotted lots of examples of people using really dated works - in vain I might point out because if they would have paid only very slightly more and would have been guided to the right books they would have got a lot more bang for their bucks as I doubt they thought that really old books are automatically better (there are not too many books as old as they were usin that are worth having).
Lastly, I'll just say this: that I know some of the most recent lexicons really contribute, but a climate where just about everyone with some language skills uses the current lexicons for everything might be a bit overkill - due to that the biggest obstacle often times is the gaining of and keeping good ancient language skills:

Joseph Turner:
I would think if you are writing an academic book, you would indeed need to use the most current version of BAGD/BDAG, or whatever might be out at the time of your research/publication.  It would be generally frowned upon to use an outdated volume in current research.  The real benefit for me when I bought BAGD was that it filled in all of the links from other resources in my library that referenced it;


If I don't stop things I will loose some money all the time. I had thought this Spring it would be a great thing to keep subscribing to Logos Now or switch to Verbum Now, but my thought right now is that I won't need continuous maximum search expression possibilities and I see it as unlikely that I'll afford upgrading to version 7 or need enough of it try to find/prioritize the money, so even with the enticing offer that base-packages will be cheaper for loyal subscribers if I don't get a bit better finances this Summer I'll skip both Logos Now and upgrading. What I had been considering was Logos 7 Anglican Silver i.e. same level which I was at when I previously upgraded (only having added permanent license to Bible Sense Dataset since then and nothing else of much offline use).

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Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 14 2016 2:00 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Joseph Turner:
The real benefit for me when I bought BAGD was that it filled in all of the links from other resources in my library that referenced it; however, I would still refer to BDAG first when doing current research.

With 60,891 BAGD links in my library that currently show do not have a resource license, would appreciate BAGD being added to BDAG bundle (preferred) OR application update so clicking BAGD link opens corresponding BDAG location.

Dreaming of BAGD resource unlock for BDAG owners due to 599 Logos resources having BAGD links.  Likewise dreaming of linking BAGD and BDAG for comparison of Danker's update with previous work.

Keep Smiling Smile

My thoughts were that it would be ideal for the Logos resources that reference BAGD to be changed to link to BDAG, however, those that have BAGD only, would run into the same issues that we who only have BDAG are running in to. So, the ideal solution would be to make BAGD available (if at all possible) just as was done with ISBE 1915 edition.

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 14 2016 10:45 PM

Erwin Stull, Sr.:
My thoughts were that it would be ideal for the Logos resources that reference BAGD to be changed to link to BDAG, however, those that have BAGD only, would run into the same issues that we who only have BDAG are running in to. So, the ideal solution would be to make BAGD available (if at all possible) just as was done with ISBE 1915 edition.

Why not both? Just a user selectable switch needed Yes

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Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 14 2016 10:47 PM

Unix:

Hi, Joseph!
Large parts of the book will be academic, I will also be writing about life choices and choices regarding consumption, plus history, reading lists and perhaps chapter or verse-level English Bible version recommendations (if I deem it neutral enough vis-á-vis the readers when it comes to the English language will also include the order of priority how I use different English Bible versions for large chunks of the Bible each - see the signature of my Mikael S post where You can see links to Bible version discussion and in one of the posts I missed to paste a facebook link - the facebook link is in that signature right next to the link to the discussion post in question), and a bit of psychology and IF I think I have something to say also a few things about environment pollution concerns and what a regular poor person can do about that most effectively.

Hey friend... I know you didn't ask this question, but I feel like I ought to interject all the same. I'm not sure a book of such scope would find a publisher. It might better be served as a series of books. From my limited understanding of the publishing world, most books that folks write never make it to publication. Try anyway. But be realistic and focused.

As to your question, if you plan to publish in 2037, then whatever the reference book of note is in 2036 ought to be used, because by then likely both badg and bdag will be supplanted by newer editions or other works.

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Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 14 2016 11:29 PM

Veli Voipio:

Erwin Stull, Sr.:
My thoughts were that it would be ideal for the Logos resources that reference BAGD to be changed to link to BDAG, however, those that have BAGD only, would run into the same issues that we who only have BDAG are running in to. So, the ideal solution would be to make BAGD available (if at all possible) just as was done with ISBE 1915 edition.

Why not both? Just a user selectable switch needed Yes

No "switch" needed.  All you need to do is to prioritize both BDAG and BAGD putting BAGD below BDAG.  Then you can choose whichever you want with a right click.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 15 2016 12:02 AM

George Somsel:

No "switch" needed.  All you need to do is to prioritize both BDAG and BAGD putting BAGD below BDAG.  Then you can choose whichever you want with a right click.

Yes, but the issue that many people have (discussed earlier in this thread) is that they dont have BAGD and can't currently get it

Posts 3266
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 15 2016 4:55 AM

Yes that is the case for me.

I don't have either and it seems my money would be better spent on the older version for all the links.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 15 2016 6:01 AM

Mattillo:

Yes that is the case for me.

I don't have either and it seems my money would be better spent on the older version for all the links.

I don't know that it's really necessary to say this since you can't get BAGD now, but you really should get the new one (BDAG).  I have both and hardly ever use the older version.  If you have any interest in Hebrew, you might consider getting the BDAG/HALOT bundle.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 2764
Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 15 2016 8:14 AM

Graham Criddle:

George Somsel:

No "switch" needed.  All you need to do is to prioritize both BDAG and BAGD putting BAGD below BDAG.  Then you can choose whichever you want with a right click.

Yes, but the issue that many people have (discussed earlier in this thread) is that they dont have BAGD and can't currently get it

Yes, that is correct, Graham. And also, that there are resources that heavily link/reference BAGD, which returns in a no license message. If the BAGD would be available, at least it would be an option (for purchase or free). Faithlife has done this with the ISBE 1915, even though I do not believe that the ISBE 1915 was heavily referenced in other resources (I could be wrong though).

Posts 955
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 15 2016 3:45 PM

Unix,  I'm happy to see a forum reply from you after many months.  I wondered where you were or if something had happened that you could not join the forum conversations.

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